2021 MLB Season Thread

[moonslav59]

LOL! I have been saying this for more than 2 months .

 

...and I'm impressed.

[dgalehouse]

Theo is generally revered by Sox fans. And for good reason. He also ended the Cubs curse. But did he destroy them financially and decimate their farm? Did he leave poor Jed Hoyer such a shambles that Hoyer had to literally tear down the roster completely in order to keep the poor Ricketts family off the Chicago welfare rolls? No, he didn't. And neither did Dombrowski. The problem is that many of the billionaire owners got together and decided to cut the payroll. And they use the Luxury Tax , that they created, as an excuse. It is surprising that so many ticket purchasing, concession stand visiting, merchandise buying , baseball package subscribing fans don't see this .

[moonslav59]

Theo is generally revered by Sox fans. And for good reason. He also ended the Cubs curse. But did he destroy them financially and decimate their farm? Did he leave poor Jed Hoyer such a shambles that Hoyer had to literally tear down the roster completely in order to keep the poor Ricketts family off the Chicago welfare rolls? No, he didn't. And neither did Dombrowski. The problem is that many of the billionaire owners got together and decided to cut the payroll. And they use the Luxury Tax , that they created, as an excuse. It is surprising that so many ticket purchasing, concession stand visiting, merchandise buying , baseball package subscribing fans don't see this .

 

Big difference between what Theo left the next GM and DD.

 

Nice try.

[Thunder]

It would be nice if the A's could stop coming from behind

[moonslav59]

It would be nice if the A's could stop coming from behind

 

They will.

 

Their number is up.

 

70% of their remaining games are vs contenders.

[dgalehouse]

Big difference between what Theo left the next GM and DD.

 

Nice try.

 

What is the difference? You make a statement like that and throw in a sarcastic " nice try." Please explain the difference.

[moonslav59]

What is the difference? You make a statement like that and throw in a sarcastic " nice try." Please explain the difference.

 

Theo left Ben a nice farm. He did leave some bad contracts, but it's not even close.

 

Theo's last draft with the Sox got us Betts, JBJ and Barnes. They joined a farm stocked with Bogey and others. He left a budget of about $175M in 2011 with some players coming off the book.

 

DD left Devers and had a payroll or almost $240M in 2018 and over $243 in 2019.

 

I think it's up to you to show why you think they are similar. Please explain the similarities.

 

[dgalehouse]

Theo left Ben a nice farm. He did leave some bad contracts, but it's not even close.

 

Theo's last draft with the Sox got us Betts, JBJ and Barnes. They joined a farm stocked with Bogey and others. He left a budget of about $175M in 2011 with some players coming off the book.

 

DD left Devers and had a payroll or almost $240M in 2018 and over $243 in 2019.

 

I think it's up to you to show why you think they are similar. Please explain the similarities.

 

I was talking about what Theo left Hoyer in Chicago. I thought that was perfectly clear.

[moonslav59]

I was talking about what Theo left Hoyer in Chicago. I thought that was perfectly clear.

 

Okay, the context of the argument was what DD leaves with every team. I felt you were speaking to that context.

 

I can't speak much about the Cubs. I do know they had a couple bad deals like Heyward, but very few 2+ year term dead weight deals. I think he didn't leave a great farm, either, but was it bottom 3 or 4 like what DD left Bloom? Honestly, I'm not sure.

 

I was talking DD's MO vs Theo's. I'm sorry for misunderstanding your point.

 

[dgalehouse]

Okay, the context of the argument was what DD leaves with every team. I felt you were speaking to that context.

 

I can't speak much about the Cubs. I do know they had a couple bad deals like Heyward, but very few 2+ year term dead weight deals. I think he didn't leave a great farm, either, but was it bottom 3 or 4 like what DD left Bloom? Honestly, I'm not sure.

 

I was talking DD's MO vs Theo's. I'm sorry for misunderstanding your point.

 

Actually, my point was that Dombrowski and Theo both left talented rosters to their successors. The problem came when the ultra wealthy owners decided to rein in the spending. It was much worse with the Cubs because Hoyer totally dismantled the team . But it was not Theo's fault. And what happened with the Sox was not as bad , and it was not Dombrowski's fault either.

[a700hitter]

Actually, my point was that Dombrowski and Theo both left talented rosters to their successors. The problem came when the ultra wealthy owners decided to rein in the spending. It was much worse with the Cubs because Hoyer totally dismantled the team . But it was not Theo's fault. And what happened with the Sox was not as bad , and it was not Dombrowski's fault either.

But we must hate and revile the man who was at the helm for 3 consecutive Division titles which had never been done before by the Red Sox and we will have or live a long time if we want to see it again. He also was at the helm of the winningest most dominant Red Sox championship team in history. He deserves scorn, because he traded Moncada and and few other nobodies.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But we must hate and revile the man who was at the helm for 3 consecutive Division titles which had never been done before by the Red Sox and we will have or live a long time if we want to see it again. He also was at the helm of the winningest most dominant Red Sox championship team in history. He deserves scorn, because he traded Moncada and and few other nobodies.

 

Dombrowski does what a lot of GMs do every year: trade prospects to upgrade their MLB roster and try to win the World Series. But while the grand plans of many GMs fall short, Dombro's moves actually worked in Boston, where he won a ring and was named Baseball America's Executive of the Year for 2018.

 

In the offseason after, he focused on retaining his championship starting pitching, a concept few baseball observers disapproved. Unfortunately in 2019 -- for whatever reasons -- Sale, Eovaldi and Price had injury-marred seasons, while Porcello regressed. Only Rodriguez improved. Dombro also chose not to re-sign relievers Kimbrel and Kelly (which most fans agreed with), but failed to replace them. As the starters faltered, the depleted bullpen became overworked, and the season was lost.

 

So was the GM's job, because his expenditures finally didn't pay off. But there was nothing devious or diabolical in Dave Dombrowski's deals that helped produce the most victorious three years in a row (306 wins) in Boston's hardball history.

[Bellhorn04]

I was talking about what Theo left Hoyer in Chicago. I thought that was perfectly clear.

 

I agree with your point.

 

With the Cubs, Theo tanked hard for several years, won one ring, and left scorched earth to Hoyer. But he's the GOAT and Dombrowski is a bum to some.

[moonslav59]

I loved watching DDs teams, and 2018 was amazingly special, but he left a farm and payroll in a mess as a result of giving us that wonderful window.

 

Some bad luck prevented the window from being longer than just 3 years, but it is what it is. We have been paying the price for that window and still are. I’m fine with that.

 

I thought the price would be greater and longer, but some of the youth DD left behind and Bloom had acquired are brightening up the longer outlook , and 2021 has come out of nowhere to be a very exciting and gritty team to watch.

 

I’m not seeing anybody totally hating on DD. Some of us have been critical of him and some of Henry. I also see some trying to sugar coat what DDs strategy led to and always has led to. Blaming Henry for doing what he’s always done: ordered resets and lower spending from time to time or blaming the GM who happens to be at the helm during those times for not doing enough or swinging and missing on the few big moves they were allowed to make.

 

All these guys have flaws. They are human. I guess it’s in our nature to pick at the scabs.

 

I for one, am glad add was our GM, and I’m also glad we replaced him with Bloom.

[Kimmi]

The true cliff was the 2021 trading deadline, apparently.

 

You can bet that what happened at the 2021 trading deadline is a direct result of fixing what Dombrowski did.

[Bellhorn04]

This is why it never ends.

[Kimmi]

Bloom should want a Dombrowski career. He's had a terrific GM career.

 

Also, his new team is in first place.

 

His team would be in 5th place in our division.

[Kimmi]

Winning the Division three straight years seems like sustainable success. It doesn't happen too often. How long are we supposed to look into the future? How long a leash does any G.M. have? Five year plans can fail too . And there is nothing to enjoy in the meantime.

 

Are you not enjoying this season?

 

Winning the division 3 straight years when you know that shortly thereafter the team will have to rebuild is not sustainable success. Sustainable success is what the Dodgers have.

[Kimmi]

Dombrowski made 2 big splash signings - Price and JDM. And JDM's price came in lower than initially expected.

 

The narrative is false.

 

For me, the payroll was never the issue. It's what he did to the farm.

[Kimmi]

just blame ownership.

 

Bloom is fine. Ben was fine. Theo was fine.

 

ftfy

[a700hitter]

Are you not enjoying this season?

 

Winning the division 3 straight years when you know that shortly thereafter the team will have to rebuild is not sustainable success. Sustainable success is what the Dodgers have.

And the Dodgers scoop up every high priced player that hits the market.

[Kimmi]

I agree with your point.

 

With the Cubs, Theo tanked hard for several years, won one ring, and left scorched earth to Hoyer. But he's the GOAT and Dombrowski is a bum to some.

 

The difference is that Theo built that team from scratch. It was his to do with what he wanted. While I don't necessarily agree with how he left the team, at least it was his own work that he scorched.

 

Dombrowski came in out of the blue and scorched the hard work of his predecessors, in record time I might add. We didn't win the 2018 WS because of Dombrowski, we won that because of Theo and Ben. Even with the pieces that Dombrowski added, they wouldn't have been possible if not for the work of Theo and Ben.

[a700hitter]

For me, the payroll was never the issue. It's what he did to the farm.

Moncada? Kopech? Margot? Really? That has you so upset. Who were the other future everyday players that he gave away? And he brought back Sale (a top 5 pitcher) and Kimbrel (a likely Hall of Famer). I think those were pretty good trades.

[Kimmi]

And the Dodgers scoop up every high priced player that hits the market.

 

They were under the luxury tax for several years. They are now able to spend like drunken sailors because they reset and because they have a great farm system.

 

Bloom will exceed the luxury tax when the time is right.

[dgalehouse]

The prospects that Dombrowski traded were simply not very good. Why do we keep insisting that they were? He left Bloom plenty of talent.

[Kimmi]

Moncada? Kopech? Margot? Really? That has you so upset. Who were the other future everyday players that he gave away? And he brought back Sale (a top 5 pitcher) and Kimbrel (a likely Hall of Famer). I think those were pretty good trades.

 

It's not any of the specific players or any specific trade. It's the magnitude of what he did. He took our farm system from a top 3 system to a bottom 3 system in less than 2 years. You simply cannot have long term sustainability without a strong farm. We are paying the price for that now, despite our success this season.

[Kimmi]

The prospects that Dombrowski traded were simply not very good. Why do we keep insisting that they were? He left Bloom plenty of talent.

 

Where did our farm system rank when Dombrowski left?

[a700hitter]

The difference is that Theo built that team from scratch. It was his to do with what he wanted. While I don't necessarily agree with how he left the team, at least it was his own work that he scorched.

 

Dombrowski came in out of the blue and scorched the hard work of his predecessors, in record time I might add. We didn't win the 2018 WS because of Dombrowski, we won that because of Theo and Ben. Even with the pieces that Dombrowski added, they wouldn't have been possible if not for the work of Theo and Ben.

Theo built the team from scratch? He didn’t bring in Pedro or Manny or Trot Nixon or DLowe or Varitek. And he gave up a bigger prospect than DD ever did when he traded Hanley who had and excellent career.

[moonslav59]

The difference is that Theo built that team from scratch. It was his to do with what he wanted. While I don't necessarily agree with how he left the team, at least it was his own work that he scorched.

 

Dombrowski came in out of the blue and scorched the hard work of his predecessors, in record time I might add. We didn't win the 2018 WS because of Dombrowski, we won that because of Theo and Ben. Even with the pieces that Dombrowski added, they wouldn't have been possible if not for the work of Theo and Ben.

 

Theo was given a very nice foundation to work with and better than what Bloom got.

[Kimmi]

Theo built the team from scratch? He didn’t bring in Pedro or Manny or Trot Nixon or DLowe or Varitek. And he gave up a bigger prospect than DD ever did when he traded Hanley who had and excellent career.

 

OK, I thought we were talking about what he did with the Cubs.

 

Theo did not build the 2004 Sox from scratch. Duquette deserves some of the credit for 2004. Also, was Theo the one who traded Hanley?