Rock Bottom, 2021 AL East

[mvp 78]

How many are in the HOF, now- as players?

 

(My guess is, I'd cut it by 33-50%.)

 

The Hall of Fame is comprised of 333 elected members. Included are 263 former major league players, as well as 38 executives/pioneers, 22 managers and 10 umpires.

[moonslav59]

The Hall of Fame is comprised of 333 elected members. Included are 263 former major league players, as well as 38 executives/pioneers, 22 managers and 10 umpires.

 

It should probably be 150-160 players.

[notin]

It should probably be 150-160 players.

 

Who are some of the 100+ you think should be removed?

[moonslav59]

Who are some of the 100+ you think should be removed?

 

Everyone as good as Cal and worse.

[Bellhorn04]

Not to open a can of worms, but I don't even think Cal belongs.

 

A guy with a career bWAR of 95.9 and 2 MVP's doesn't belong in the Hall?

[moonslav59]

A guy with a career bWAR of 95.9 and 2 MVP's doesn't belong in the Hall?

 

Nope. It took 21 years to get those WAR cumulative numbers. He was a drag on his team for many years, especially during the end of the "streak."

 

.788 career OPS (112 OPS+)

 

Dwight Evans was twice the fielder Cal was and had an .840 OPS (127+).

 

Cal had a few awesome years, no doubt, but it was the 21 years, his name and the streak that got him in.

[moonslav59]

A guy with a career bWAR of 95.9 and 2 MVP's doesn't belong in the Hall?

 

He's not the only guy with 90+ bWAR not in my HOF.

 

Here's a list of the top career WAR players.

 

Cal is listed at 35th, so that seems like a lock. Not to me.

 

(I also think his fielding was over-rated.)

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml

Edited April 9, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_pitching.shtml

 

By and large, the vast majority of pitchers with an ERA over 3.00 should not be in, but ERA is not my stat of choice.

[moonslav59]

Batters in the HOF (including pitchers listed):

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_batting.shtml

 

Starting at about an OPS of .840 and below (or #80), I'd ax most of 'em, but realize fielding is a big part of baseball.

[Bellhorn04]

Nope. It took 21 years to get those WAR cumulative numbers. He was a drag on his team for many years, especially during the end of the "streak."

 

.788 career OPS (112 OPS+)

 

Dwight Evans was twice the fielder Cal was and had an .840 OPS (127+).

 

What numbers do you have to back up the claim about defense?

 

FanGraphs shows quite the opposite.

[moonslav59]

What numbers do you have to back up the claim about defense?

 

FanGraphs shows quite the opposite.

 

Did they even have UZR/150 and DRS back then?

[moonslav59]

What numbers do you have to back up the claim about defense?

 

FanGraphs shows quite the opposite.

 

Fangraphs shows Cal was better than Dwight on defense?

[Bellhorn04]

Fangraphs shows Cal was better than Dwight on defense?

 

Big time.

[Bellhorn04]

Let's convert WAR to a rate stat.

 

Ripken

Average of bWAR and fWAR = 94.2

PA's 12,883 / 600 = 21.47 seasons of 600 PA's

Average WAR /season = 4.39

 

Evans

Average of bWAR and fWAR = 66.1

PA's 10,569 / 600 = 17.62 seasons of 600 PA's

Average WAR /season = 3.75

 

So as a rate stat, Ripken's WAR is 17% better.

[moonslav59]

Let's convert WAR to a rate stat.

 

Ripken

Average of bWAR and fWAR = 94.2

PA's 12,883 / 600 = 21.47 seasons of 600 PA's

Average WAR /season = 4.39

 

Evans

Average of bWAR and fWAR = 66.1

PA's 10,569 / 600 = 17.62 seasons of 600 PA's

Average WAR /season = 3.75

 

So as a rate stat, Ripken's WAR is 17% better.

 

So? I don't think Dewey belongs, either.

 

I also think had UZR/150 been around, Dewey would blow Cal away on Defense. It wouldn't even be close.

 

Look, I didn't want to open a can of worms. I would not have even 60% of the players in the HOF now.

 

No Cal. No Dewey.No Morris. No many.

[jad]

I don't think 5% of the visitors to the HOF would understand this exchange!

[moonslav59]

I don't think 5% of the visitors to the HOF would understand this exchange!

 

My HOF would be like 3 rooms.

[jad]

My HOF would be like 3 rooms.

 

Problem is that the HOF also serves as the "History of Baseball" museum. And 'history' is no longer considered to be about the 1%ers, any more than regular history is about kings and queens. Not really sure how MLB should negotiate these conflicting demands, but certainly keeping players like Barry Bonds, Clemens and Rose [whom I despise!] out answers nothing.

[Bellhorn04]

My HOF would be like 3 rooms.

 

To each their own. None of it matters anyway. Just stuff to jabber about.

[notin]

Problem is that the HOF also serves as the "History of Baseball" museum. And 'history' is no longer considered to be about the 1%ers, any more than regular history is about kings and queens. Not really sure how MLB should negotiate these conflicting demands, but certainly keeping players like Barry Bonds, Clemens and Rose [whom I despise!] out answers nothing.

 

Now you’re using my Steroid Era argument. You just need to add the “Ken Caminiti Room”...

[Larry Cook]

Are we now worst to first in a week?

[Maxbialystock]

Are we now worst to first in a week?

 

6 days from 0-3 on April 4 to 5-3 on April 10.

[Kimmi]

Rock Bottom 2021 AL East - New York Yankees

[moonslav59]

Rock Bottom 2021 AL East - New York Yankees

 

Almost as nice as seeing us on top!

 

Almost.

[notin]

Rock Bottom 2021 AL East - New York Yankees

 

I have to see the Yankees are playing some of the worst defensive baseball this side of Leominster Tee Ball. Yesterday, the Rays got two runs on an infield hit because both Bruce and LeMahieu couldn’t decide who should go pick up the ball. The day before, 2020 Gold Glove Finalist Cliff Frazier quadruple-pumped throws while holding the ball, completely clueless on where to throw it, while runners (plural!) advanced.

 

I get making a rushed bad throw. I get taking your eyes off the ball for a split second. But sometimes these Yankee players just look like they’ve never played baseball before...

Edited April 11, 2021 by notin

[kenmeister]

Are we now worst to first in a week?

 

See, I told everybody we'd be just fine. Did you ever hear me mentioning 0-162? Oh you did? Oh yeah, I did. All I can say is ... wow! Let's savor first place while we're there!

[Larry Cook]

See, I told everybody we'd be just fine. Did you ever hear me mentioning 0-162? Oh you did? Oh yeah, I did. All I can say is ... wow! Let's savor first place while we're there!

 

It’s all good!

[Larry Cook]

Are we the only team in the division with a winning record?

[Kimmi]

I have to see the Yankees are playing some of the worst defensive baseball this side of Leominster Tee Ball. Yesterday, the Rays got two runs on an infield hit because both Bruce and LeMahieu couldn’t decide who should go pick up the ball. The day before, 2020 Gold Glove Finalist Cliff Frazier quadruple-pumped throws while holding the ball, completely clueless on where to throw it, while runners (plural!) advanced.

 

I get making a rushed bad throw. I get taking your eyes off the ball for a split second. But sometimes these Yankee players just look like they’ve never played baseball before...

 

I did not see those plays, but it makes me happy to read about them.

[Kimmi]

Are we the only team in the division with a winning record?

 

Every other team in our division is 4-5. Woot!