2021 Spring Training Discussion

[mvp 78]

@jcmccaffrey

Red Sox announce pitchers and catchers will report Feb. 17 with the first game taking place Feb. 27. They're planning to have fans in attendance at JetBlue Park at 24 percent capacity.

24 percent capacity is about 2,400 fans each game; regular seating capacity is 9,909. All tickets will be sold in physically distanced ‘pods’ comprised primarily of 2-4 seats that will allow for at least six feet between groups.

Due to the pandemic, all workouts at JetBlue Park will be closed to the public and there will be no tours or open house held this spring training.

[mvp 78]

Truck Day - Feb. 8

First workout for pitchers and catchers - Feb. 17

First full-squad workout - Feb. 22

[Thunder]

Well that snuck up on me...

[S5Dewey]

I'm paraphrasing in this first paragraph, but this is the way I understand an email I got from the Red Sox today:

 

Due to the Corona virus the Sox are allowing ST Season Ticket holders to purchase their tickets for 2021 and then during a pre-registration time during February designate which games they want tickets for. The cost for any unused games will be credited toward the 2022 ST season.

 

They are also allowing ST Season Ticket holders to completely "opt out" of buying their tickets for 2021 and still maintain their ticket eligibility for 2022. (that's me )

 

According to what I've read/heard there MAY be no tickets available to the public, depending on social distancing seat availability.

 

Because of Social Distancing STST holders may not be able to sit in their usual seats with since all seating will be in 'pods' of 2-4 seats with at least 6' between seats.

[vegasbob]

MLBPA basically told MLB to go and sit in the corner rather than make any modifications or accomodations on changes. Who do they think they are the teacher's union ?

[a700hitter]

I'm paraphrasing in this first paragraph, but this is the way I understand an email I got from the Red Sox today:

 

Due to the Corona virus the Sox are allowing ST Season Ticket holders to purchase their tickets for 2021 and then during a pre-registration time during February designate which games they want tickets for. The cost for any unused games will be credited toward the 2022 ST season.

 

They are also allowing ST Season Ticket holders to completely "opt out" of buying their tickets for 2021 and still maintain their ticket eligibility for 2022. (that's me )

 

According to what I've read/heard there MAY be no tickets available to the public, depending on social distancing seat availability.

 

Because of Social Distancing STST holders may not be able to sit in their usual seats with since all seating will be in 'pods' of 2-4 seats with at least 6' between seats.

My Spring Training streak will be broken after 17 Seasons. And I will miss taking in games with my TalkSox buddy(ies).

[moonslav59]

MLBPA basically told MLB to go and sit in the corner rather than make any modifications or accomodations on changes. Who do they think they are the teacher's union ?

 

No counter offer.

 

You'd think they'd at least try.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Players i can’t wait to see are Puig Pillar and Marwin getting goosies Edited February 2, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[harmony]

The last baseball game I attended in person was a college game at Stanford on Saturday, March 7, 2020. Two days earlier Stanford announced that seating would be limited to one-third of the 2,113 capacity at Klein Field at Sunken Diamond.

 

https://gostanford.com/facilities/klein-field-at-sunken-diamond/8

 

The nearly empty stadium was eerie that day amid coronavirus fears.

[Thunder]

My Spring Training streak will be broken after 17 Seasons. And I will miss taking in games with my TalkSox buddy(ies).

 

We still have to get together one of these years. I enjoyed my inaugural trip to Fort Myers in 2019

[Thunder]

The last baseball game I attended in person was a college game at Stanford on Saturday, March 7, 2020. Two days earlier Stanford announced that seating would be limited to one-third of the 2,113 capacity at Klein Field at Sunken Diamond.

 

https://gostanford.com/facilities/klein-field-at-sunken-diamond/8

 

The nearly empty stadium was eerie that day amid coronavirus fears.

 

You got me beat. 2 days after my last sporting event, a UConn basketball game

[Swiharts Ghost]

Watching Verdugo Kiki Devers is going to be fun period .Excited about the team 94 wins with huge JDM bounce back season Bloom getting it done period.All the trash posts to pass the time aside I’m excited and on my best behavior the rest of 21 .

[mvp 78]

No counter offer.

 

You'd think they'd at least try.

 

Why would they reopen the CBA? It hasn’t expired.

 

Why make any concessions?

[mvp 78]

MLBPA basically told MLB to go and sit in the corner rather than make any modifications or accomodations on changes. Who do they think they are the teacher's union ?

 

https://twitter.com/eugenefreedman/status/1356456806629978112?s=21

[moonslav59]

Why would they reopen the CBA? It hasn’t expired.

 

Why make any concessions?

 

Where did I say make concessions?

 

I said make a counter offer. If MLB says no, then wait to the next negotiations. The world has changed, bigly.

 

They better be ready for some big whining shows put on by the owners.

Edited February 3, 2021 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Where did I say make concessions?

 

I said make a counter offer. If MLB says no, then wait to the next negotiations. The world has changed, bigly.

 

They better be ready for some big whining shows put on by the owners.

 

They have NO reason to counter. Read the twitter thread I posted above.

[notin]

Where did I say make concessions?

 

I said make a counter offer. If MLB says no, then wait to the next negotiations. The world has changed, bigly.

 

They better be ready for some big whining shows put on by the owners.

 

Once they counteroffer, they’ve agreed to renegotiate. They do not want to renegotiate.

 

You don’t maintain the status quo by making counteroffers...

[moonslav59]

Once they counteroffer, they’ve agreed to renegotiate. They do not want to renegotiate.

 

You don’t maintain the status quo by making counteroffers...

 

Agreeing to negotiate some new terms does not mean the current deal is null and void. If no agreement is reached, things remain status quo.

 

The problem is, status quo in a pandemic is nearly impossible. Some changes are real- like 2020. Do the players want management to decide everything on their own and then try to litigate it after the fact?

 

I'm just saying the union should be proactive and not just let the owners decide on a lot of issues.

 

If they see they are getting nowhere, then stop "negotiating" until next year.

 

There are clearly some things the owners cannot do unilaterally, but some things could be traded off that help both sides and the game of baseball in trying times.

[notin]

Agreeing to negotiate some new terms does not mean the current deal is null and void. If no agreement is reached, things remain status quo.

 

The problem is, status quo in a pandemic is nearly impossible. Some changes are real- like 2020. Do the players want management to decide everything on their own and then try to litigate it after the fact?

 

I'm just saying the union should be proactive and not just let the owners decide on a lot of issues.

 

If they see they are getting nowhere, then stop "negotiating" until next year.

 

There are clearly some things the owners cannot do unilaterally, but some things could be traded off that help both sides and the game of baseball in trying times.

 

If the MLBPA wats the current deal in place, counteroffers make no sense for them. Are they being stubborn? Maybe. But right now it appears as though status quo is their stance, and they are sticking to it. And as a result, they will not be making counteroffers...

[moonslav59]

If the MLBPA wats the current deal in place, counteroffers make no sense for them. Are they being stubborn? Maybe. But right now it appears as though status quo is their stance, and they are sticking to it. And as a result, they will not be making counteroffers...

 

They did seem to signal the specific things they did not like about the owner's proposal. To me, that shows they may be okay with some of what was put on the table.

 

I'm not saying they will open it all up, but if indeed there were only a couple things they did not like- maybe it was more- then maybe some changes could be made that are needed to address this unique situation we are all in.

 

I would not bet on it happening, but the players will end up losing again, this season- not that the wonder made out last year.

[mvp 78]

Agreeing to negotiate some new terms does not mean the current deal is null and void. If no agreement is reached, things remain status quo.

 

The problem is, status quo in a pandemic is nearly impossible. Some changes are real- like 2020. Do the players want management to decide everything on their own and then try to litigate it after the fact?

 

I'm just saying the union should be proactive and not just let the owners decide on a lot of issues.

 

If they see they are getting nowhere, then stop "negotiating" until next year.

 

There are clearly some things the owners cannot do unilaterally, but some things could be traded off that help both sides and the game of baseball in trying times.

 

The owners can't "just decide" on a lot of issues. Those issues are already addressed in the CBA. The owners can't just go against the CBA like that.

 

Also, LOL at the "trying times." These owners are rolling in the dough. They aren't hurting at all right now.

[mvp 78]

They did seem to signal the specific things they did not like about the owner's proposal. To me, that shows they may be okay with some of what was put on the table.

 

I'm not saying they will open it all up, but if indeed there were only a couple things they did not like- maybe it was more- then maybe some changes could be made that are needed to address this unique situation we are all in.

 

I would not bet on it happening, but the players will end up losing again, this season- not that the wonder made out last year.

 

What's the point on opening anything up? The players lost a ton of money last season that they'll never get back. It'd be dumb to give anything else to the owners right now.

 

Why negotiate universal DH for extra unpaid games? It makes no sense.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If the MLBPA wats the current deal in place, counteroffers make no sense for them. Are they being stubborn? Maybe. But right now it appears as though status quo is their stance, and they are sticking to it. And as a result, they will not be making counteroffers...

 

This is why most players are only getting one-year deals; owners know there might not be a next season (not to mention a variant, mutated 2021). It also further explains why the Sox FO "may not be all-in".

[mvp 78]

This is why most players are only getting one-year deals; owners know there might not be a next season (not to mention a variant, mutated 2021). It also further explains why the Sox FO "may not be all-in".

 

That'd be a shame if next season was shortened or didn't happen, since it'd be the first season where you could possibly fill the stands to capacity again. Players got screwed last time, maybe they'll decide to sit out for a few months if the owners try to lowball them? I don't have much faith in Rob Manfred or Tony Clark at this point.

[moonslav59]

What's the point on opening anything up? The players lost a ton of money last season that they'll never get back. It'd be dumb to give anything else to the owners right now.

 

Why negotiate universal DH for extra unpaid games? It makes no sense.

 

You are misunderstanding my point. The owners can decide to just shut down the season- like 2020. (I am not on the owners side, at all. Never have been.)

 

The union should try to get whatever they can. Of course, I am not advocating they negotiate loses, but they are going to "lose" again in 2021, so why not try to get something good?

 

If they can't, nothing is lost that they weren't going to lose anyway.

[mvp 78]

You are misunderstanding my point. The owners can decide to just shut down the season- like 2020. (I am not on the owners side, at all. Never have been.)

 

The union should try to get whatever they can. Of course, I am not advocating they negotiate loses, but they are going to "lose" again in 2021, so why not try to get something good?

 

If they can't, nothing is lost that they weren't going to lose anyway.

 

So the owners are going to lock out the players? You think that will be good for the next CBA?

 

Why should the union ever start off with "let's give something back that is already in our contract?"

[moonslav59]

So the owners are going to lock out the players? You think that will be good for the next CBA?

 

Why should the union ever start off with "let's give something back that is already in our contract?"

 

They could shorten the season, again. No, I'm not talking lock out, but I suppose that could happen.

 

Did the players gain anything in 2020? Did they lose anything? Did they have much say in what was lost in 2020?

 

Can they learn from 2020 and try to mitigate further losses? Maybe not. How can it hurt to try?

[notin]

The owners can't "just decide" on a lot of issues. Those issues are already addressed in the CBA. The owners can't just go against the CBA like that.

 

Also, LOL at the "trying times." These owners are rolling in the dough. They aren't hurting at all right now.

 

There is something to be said for the financial situation of these owners.

 

John Henry has a net worth of $2.6 billion (per Forbes). While he (and other owners) do not use their own cash, Henry clearly has shown he has no issues keeping the Sox at or near the top of the MLB payroll hierarchy. The Greater Boston Area is the 10th largest metropolitan area in the US per the 2010 census, which certainly helps.

 

Oakland A's majority owner John Fisher has a net worth of $2.8 billion (per Forbes). The A's play in the 12 largest metropolitan area. Now they do share it with the Giants, which is a big deal. But does this impact them to the point where they have to operate among the lowest payrolls in MLB? I can see the issue here somewhat, as it would be like if Boston had two MLB franchises. Can Boston support two MLB teams? It only seems to work in the 3 largest markets (NY, LA, Chicago). If Philadelphia-DC-Baltimore was considered one metropolitan area and not 3 separate ones, it would be the second largest market in the USA, ahead of LA and behind only New York. (Again, all data per the 2010 census.)

 

Miami Marlins majority owner Bruce Sherman does "only" have a net worth of $500 million (per Forbes), but the Marlins do play in the 7th largest market in the USA per the 2010 census. But a lot of other money does come from his rather wealthy partnership group that includes Derek Jeter (Forbes net worth - $200 million) and Michael Jordan (Forbes net worth - $1.6 billion). So why do the Marlins frequently cry poverty? They have the population and the money upfront to put a team together. On the surface, this team appears to have the worst excuses for crying poverty and small market. It's not a small market.

 

Pittsburgh Pirates majority owner Robert Nutting has a net worth of $1.6 billion per Forbes, which dstill makes him one of the 10 richest owners in MLB. Now they do play in the 27th largest market in the USA, which certainly has an impact. But at what point is he just refusing to invest in his team to put a better product on the field and take advantage of what is still a rather large and robust market? I get it is easier to support NFL teams (with a lot fewer home games) and NHL teams (significantly lower budgets).

 

Tampa Rays owner Stuart Sternberg has a Forbes net worth of $800 million, and the Tampa market ranks 18th largest in the USA. Wht I think kills this team is 1) the inconvenient stadium and 2) the Tampa market is flooded with retirees mostly from other states who brought with them their own team allegiances. It's a large market, but I am not sure how accessible it is to the Rays, who really need to relocate at some point. If there is a market that could support a second team, the Dallas-Forth Worth-Arlington market is probably the best option. Personally, I think New York City could support a third team, like they did for a long time. Bring back the Brooklyn Superbas!!

[mvp 78]

They could shorten the season, again. No, I'm not talking lock out, but I suppose that could happen.

 

Did the players gain anything in 2020? Did they lose anything? Did they have much say in what was lost in 2020?

 

Can they learn from 2020 and try to mitigate further losses? Maybe not. How can it hurt to try?

 

It would be dumb for the owners to lock out the players this year. Last year, the season was shortened because many cities were outlawing gatherings of 10+ people. That hasn't been the case since MLB started up last July. If it wasn't for local government, the season may have gone ahead. Now, there are no such restrictions. NHL and NBA are both doing indoors games. There's no reason for the MLB (a sport played outside and is fairly socially distant) to play fewer games this year.

[mvp 78]

If Tampa relocated, it'd probably be to Nashville or some other new market rather than an existing market. I think Tampa is more likely to build a new stadium than move. The governor here loves his sports and will find a way to weasel tax payers into paying for a new stadium.