Sox sign Hunter Renfroe

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Cleveland Rock N Roll Artifacts aren't really cursed; they just played too long in a fog all those years in that ballpark built on an ocean.

[Bellhorn04]

The Cleveland Rock N Roll Artifacts aren't really cursed; they just played too long in a fog all those years in that ballpark built on an ocean.

 

The Mistake on the Lake. Classic.

[mvp 78]

He was also known for careless activities like opening beer bottles with his teeth. Not quite a Bobby Jenks level of self-abuse, but certainly not conducive to longevity in an athletic career...

 

Oh sure, it's HIS fault he got stabbed in the ribs with a pen knife when in Mexico. Nice job victim blaming.

[Kimmi]

I like it that we don't piss away $5- $10M as we've done in the past. Our farm system is getting stronger and we still have money to pursue talent.

 

I'm willing to wait and build a consistent contender....let the rebuild begin.

 

I am willing to wait also, as opposed to making stupid moves this year to try to contend.

 

That said, I think we can contend this year without making the splashy move, and continue to strengthen our farm at the same time.

[Kimmi]

We have a 3Bman and DH. While I like Moreland, spending on 1B in hopes he doess better than Dalbec will do may keep us from signing a better or extra RP'er or SP'er.

 

We could end up trading Dalbec and signing Moreland.

 

Yeah, my top priority is pitching as well. I just like Moreland. I like the veteran presence that he provides. I get what you're saying though.

[Kimmi]

If they re-sign Moreland, it's to platoon with Dalbec. Not sure they need to platoon Dalbec, but that's what it would be for.

 

I'm on board with that.

[notin]

Oh sure, it's HIS fault he got stabbed in the ribs with a pen knife when in Mexico. Nice job victim blaming.

 

Well I was thinking more about his drug and alcohol abuse, but mostly the contests he used to take part in to see who could hold lit cigarettes against their skin the longest...

[jacksonianmarch]

If the Sox are planning to contend in 21, then a fall back for Dalbec is a requirement. If the Sox are planning to build and develop in 21, then there’s zero reason to steal PT from Dalbec.

[jacksonianmarch]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

 

This is the right one

Edited December 17, 2020 by jacksonianmarch

[notin]

If the Sox are planning to contend in 21, then a fall back for Dalbec is a requirement. If the Sox are planning to build and develop in 21, then there’s zero reason to steal PT from Dalbec.

 

Fall back options are not required by opening day. But I still expect the Sox to sign either Brad Miller or Mitch Moreland...

[moonslav59]

If the Sox are planning to contend in 21, then a fall back for Dalbec is a requirement. If the Sox are planning to build and develop in 21, then there’s zero reason to steal PT from Dalbec.

 

Come on. If Dalbec stumbles, finding a capable 1Bman, mid season, is easier than any other position in MLB.

 

You can even find 'em in May or June, if needed.

 

We could even get lucky as see Chavis fill the gap, if it arises.

[moonslav59]

Fall back options are not required by opening day. But I still expect the Sox to sign either Brad Miller or Mitch Moreland...

 

I think see more players acquired by trade than free agency, but I wouldn't be surprised if we sign Miller and Marisnik as the only non pitchers beyond Renfroe.

[notin]

I think see more players acquired by trade than free agency, but I wouldn't be surprised if we sign Miller and Marisnik as the only non pitchers beyond Renfroe.

 

By trading who?

[moonslav59]

By trading who?

 

I've made a lot of suggestions, but Vaz is one that will bring back the most.

 

We've talked about just how much Chavis is worth, if anything. Chatham might be wanted. With Renfroe, Marisnik & Miller added to the roster, Duran, Wilson or Rosario could be trade pieces.

 

I'm not for trading Dalbec, but you have to give to get, so maybe he could be dealt, instead of Chavis, and if we do trade him, maybe we add Moreland to the FA signing list of non-pitchers.

 

We'd need to find a catcher.

 

Maybe Vaz goes to Philly or TB and we get Taillon, Stallings and/or maybe Frazier from Pitt and/or Anderson/Fairbanks from TB. I'm not sure, if the players I listed are enough or even wanted, but the BTV site says they are enough, even without Dalbec.

 

This trade will fill every major need area:

 

BOS: Taillon, Anderson, Kiermaier, Stallings, Frazier

 

TB: Vazquez & Duran

 

Pitt: Baz, Chatam, Chavis & Grullon

 

(I'd give even more, if needed- like Groome or Ward or Arauz/Wilson/a bubble pitcher.)

 

[Nick]

I've made a lot of suggestions, but Vaz is one that will bring back the most.

 

We've talked about just how much Chavis is worth, if anything. Chatham might be wanted. With Renfroe, Marisnik & Miller added to the roster, Duran, Wilson or Rosario could be trade pieces.

 

I'm not for trading Dalbec, but you have to give to get, so maybe he could be dealt, instead of Chavis, and if we do trade him, maybe we add Moreland to the FA signing list of non-pitchers.

 

We'd need to find a catcher.

 

Maybe Vaz goes to Philly or TB and we get Taillon, Stallings and/or maybe Frazier from Pitt and/or Anderson/Fairbanks from TB. I'm not sure, if the players I listed are enough or even wanted, but the BTV site says they are enough, even without Dalbec.

 

This trade will fill every major need area:

 

BOS: Taillon, Anderson, Kiermaier, Stallings, Frazier

 

TB: Vazquez & Duran

 

Pitt: Baz, Chatam, Chavis & Grullon

 

(I'd give even more, if needed- like Groome or Ward or Arauz/Wilson/a bubble pitcher.)

 

 

Bloom did a great job flipping players with low upside for younger talent in 2020. Dalbec to me is different. He's someone with 40+ HR potential. It's just way too early to give up on him. Not sure if I've seen a trade scenario that wows involving Dalbec.

[moonslav59]

Bloom did a great job flipping players with low upside for younger talent in 2020. Dalbec to me is different. He's someone with 40+ HR potential. It's just way too early to give up on him. Not sure if I've seen a trade scenario that wows involving Dalbec.

 

I feel the same way. I've never minded high K rates, if the guy gets on base over .333 or so, and Dalbec has always done that. His power seems unquestionable.

 

I'm not sure if any GMs see value in Chavis and Chatham, and as much as I hate trading prospects, especially pitching prospects, I'm thinking Ward or Groome may have to be part of any package that brings back something worthwhile.

 

I know many here envision Duran as of CF'er of the future, but if we fill our OF needs, this winter, via trade and or free agency, I'd rather trade Duran than Dalbec.

 

[notin]

Bloom did a great job flipping players with low upside for younger talent in 2020. Dalbec to me is different. He's someone with 40+ HR potential. It's just way too early to give up on him. Not sure if I've seen a trade scenario that wows involving Dalbec.

 

 

Per BTV, Bobby Dalbec has a surplus trade value of $18.2 million. Some roughly equivalent starting pitchers include Brady Singer (KC, 21.5), Lance McCullers Jr (Hou, 21.4), Triston McKenzie (Cle 21.1), Jameson Taillon (Pitt, 20.3), Aaron Civale (Cle 20.2), Yu Darvish (CHC, 20.1), Dylan Bundy (LAA, 19.3), Zach Eflin (Phi, 19.3), Brad Keller (KC, 19.1), Noah Syndergaard (NYM, 18.9), Randy Dobnak (Min, 17.5), Spencer Turnbull (Det, 17.5), and Jose Urquidy (Hou, 17.2).

 

Now on that list, teams like Cleveland, Houston, Phladelphia, and Pitt might not be so hot for a corner infielder, even one with power. So unless a thrid team is involved, not very likely. LAA signed a Rendon for 3B last off-season, and might not mind the 1B, but their counterpiece in Dylan Bundy is entering his option year.

 

That leaves Dalbec in the follwoing potential deals

 

1. To CHC for Yu Darvish

2. To Min for Randy Dobnak

3. To KC for Brad Keller

4. To KC for Brady Singer

5. To Detroit for Spencer Turnbull.

 

Darvish is still on free agent money. Why not just sign someone? I don't know much about Dobnak or Singer. But Dalbec for Brad Keller or Dalbec for Spencer Turnbull both intrigue me. KC just non-tendered their starting 3B and Detroit has a boatload of young pitching and is reportedly looking for some young hitting. So either might actually be interested.

 

Do any of these trades intrigue you at all?

[mvp 78]

Keep Dalbec, sign a FA.

[harmony]

Looks like exactly the kind of signing you'd expect from our patient, methodical Chief Baseball Officer.

The Red Sox and the Seattle Mariners are similarly situated in the sense that neither team is likely to go all-in to compete in 2021.

 

Each team entered the offseason looking to fill an outfield hole with the Red Sox returning lefthand-hitting Alex Verdugo and Andrew Benintendi and the Mariners returning righthhand-hitting Kyle Lewis and Mitch Haniger. The Red Sox at least partially filled their hole with righthand-hitting Hunter Renfroe.

 

Perhaps the Mariners will pursue Renfroe's mirror image in lefthand-hitting Kyle Schwarber, another non-tender/DFA discard who is a year younger than Renfroe. Renfroe is a 6-1, 230-pound power hitter taken out of Mississippi State with the 13th pick of the 2013 draft while Schwarber is a 6-0, 225-pound power hitter taken out of Indiana with the fourth pick of the 2014 draft. Here are their 2021 Marcel projections:

 

HR 389 PA, .221/.296/.465/.761, 55 R, 25 HR, 61 RBI

KS 563 PA, .233/.337/.471/.808, 74 R, 30 HR, 74 RBI

 

Steamer and ZiPS project 2021 WAR of 0.8 in 117 games and 1.7 in 124 games for Renfroe and 2.0 in 128 games and 2.0 in 137 games for Schwarber.

 

Each has a pronounced platoon split.

 

Of course the chances of Seattle signing Schwarber are slim (although the Mariners have already signed Schwarber's college teammate, former Red Sox Sam Travis, to a minor league contract).

Edited December 17, 2020 by harmony

[mvp 78]

Of course the chances of Seattle signing Schwarber are slim (although the Mariners have already signed Schwarber's college teammate, former Red Sox Sam Travis, to a minor league contract).

 

So that's where Joey Votto 2.0 showed up...

[moonslav59]

Per BTV, Bobby Dalbec has a surplus trade value of $18.2 million. Some roughly equivalent starting pitchers include Brady Singer (KC, 21.5), Lance McCullers Jr (Hou, 21.4), Triston McKenzie (Cle 21.1), Jameson Taillon (Pitt, 20.3), Aaron Civale (Cle 20.2), Yu Darvish (CHC, 20.1), Dylan Bundy (LAA, 19.3), Zach Eflin (Phi, 19.3), Brad Keller (KC, 19.1), Noah Syndergaard (NYM, 18.9), Randy Dobnak (Min, 17.5), Spencer Turnbull (Det, 17.5), and Jose Urquidy (Hou, 17.2).

 

Now on that list, teams like Cleveland, Houston, Phladelphia, and Pitt might not be so hot for a corner infielder, even one with power. So unless a thrid team is involved, not very likely. LAA signed a Rendon for 3B last off-season, and might not mind the 1B, but their counterpiece in Dylan Bundy is entering his option year.

 

That leaves Dalbec in the follwoing potential deals

 

1. To CHC for Yu Darvish

2. To Min for Randy Dobnak

3. To KC for Brad Keller

4. To KC for Brady Singer

5. To Detroit for Spencer Turnbull.

 

Darvish is still on free agent money. Why not just sign someone? I don't know much about Dobnak or Singer. But Dalbec for Brad Keller or Dalbec for Spencer Turnbull both intrigue me. KC just non-tendered their starting 3B and Detroit has a boatload of young pitching and is reportedly looking for some young hitting. So either might actually be interested.

 

Do any of these trades intrigue you at all?

 

Assuming BTV numbers are fairly accurate, these are the Sox players, I'd suggest be traded for high need areas (SP, RP, RP, SP, CF, 2B- in that order):

12.1 Duran

7.5 Chavis

5.5 Beni (hate selling low)

4.9 Chatham

4.5 Ward

4.3 Wong

3.8 Song

3.7 Groome

3.0 Murphy

2.6 Decker

 

Possible for "the right guy:"

26.4 Downs

21.0 Vazquez

18.2 Dalbec

 

[notin]

Keep Dalbec, sign a FA.

 

Probably the most likely. But what if Dalbec's role is limited to weakside platoon at 1b?

[moonslav59]

Probably the most likely. But what if Dalbec's role is limited to weakside platoon at 1b?

 

Don't do that, either.

 

If we sign a guy like Moreland, we might as well trade Dalbec, as much as I hate to do it.

[mvp 78]

Probably the most likely. But what if Dalbec's role is limited to weakside platoon at 1b?

 

I think you try to see if he can be a fulltime guy this year. I'd give him a long leash. I know Casas is waiting in the wings, but a productive Dalbec can probably be moved over to 3b or even to a corner OF spot.

[mvp 78]

Don't do that, either.

 

If we sign a guy like Moreland, we might as well trade Dalbec, as much as I hate to do it.

 

Maybe that's why you bring in a more versatile guy like Miller? I still would like Moreland on the bench as a backup LHB and mentor to Dalbec.

[notin]

Assuming BTV numbers are fairly accurate, these are the Sox players, I'd suggest be traded for high need areas (SP, RP, RP, SP, CF, 2B- in that order):

12.1 Duran

7.5 Chavis

5.5 Beni (hate selling low)

4.9 Chatham

4.5 Ward

4.3 Wong

3.8 Song

3.7 Groome

3.0 Murphy

2.6 Decker

 

Possible for "the right guy:"

26.4 Downs

21.0 Vazquez

18.2 Dalbec

 

 

Yeah but I wonder exactly what SP onw could get for Chavis?

 

Some of the equally valued pitchers on BTV include:

 

Kyle Freeland (Col), Caleb Smith (AZ), Cal Quantrill (Cle), Josh Lindblom (Mil), Kyle Wright (Atl), JT Brubaker (Pitt), Koby Allard (Tex), Jon Gray (Col), and Bryse Wilson (Atl).

 

But do any of those teams want Chavis? I am not so sure he is the most desirable trade chip. I'd make some of those deals if other teams were interested...

[mvp 78]

Yeah but I wonder exactly what SP onw could get for Chavis?

 

Some of the equally valued pitchers on BTV include:

 

Kyle Freeland (Col), Caleb Smith (AZ), Cal Quantrill (Cle), Josh Lindblom (Mil), Kyle Wright (Atl), JT Brubaker (Pitt), Koby Allard (Tex), Jon Gray (Col), and Bryse Wilson (Atl).

 

But do any of those teams want Chavis? I am not so sure he is the most desirable trade chip. I'd make some of those deals if other teams were interested...

 

I'd move Chavis for any of those guys.

[notin]

I think you try to see if he can be a fulltime guy this year. I'd give him a long leash. I know Casas is waiting in the wings, but a productive Dalbec can probably be moved over to 3b or even to a corner OF spot.

 

Move Dalbec to a corner OF spot? Thus the transformation into Russ Branyan 2.0 is complete!

 

I'd be ok with him as the full time 1B. I just think if the idea is to use him as the RHH part of a platoon, it's a waste and the Sox would be better off moving him for a SP. But then, I've been predicting the Sox sign Brad Miller, who is a left-handed bat but not someone you want to give 450 PA at 1B to...

[notin]

I'd move Chavis for any of those guys.

 

But would the other team do it? Really, that's the main issue here...

[mvp 78]

But would the other team do it? Really, that's the main issue here...

 

I don't believe so. You'd most likely need to trade Chavis and an arm with upside like Bello.