Who Should the Sox Have Play 2B in 2020?

[moonslav59]

I don't think there's a chance they give up on Whitlock. It's easy enough to stash a Rule V guy, especially now that rosters are larger and they'll need all the arms they can get with a 6 man rotation.

 

We'll never get far enough to have to trade or DFA my list of 4. My point was our roster is weak beyond the bottom 7. It goes 8-11 deep and maybe even farther.

[moonslav59]

I haven't seen a weaker Sox bottom-of-the-40-man-roster in decades.

 

(30 or 31 to 40- maybe even 27 to 40.)

 

Since Bloom is known for finding "gems in the rough," I expected this area to be improved by more than it has, and no, it shouldn't take a lot of money to build slots 30-40.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

I don't know of any place that records 40 man rosters, but here's the bottom of the 40 man from the end of 2013:

Andrew Bailey

Lavarnway

Villareal

Alex Wilson

Dan Butler

Alex Castellanos

Drake Britton

Alex Hassan

Ryan Kalish - post injury

[moonslav59]

I don't know of any place that records 40 man rosters, but here's the bottom of the 40 man from the end of 2013:

Andrew Bailey

Lavarnway

Villareal

Alex Wilson

Dan Butler

Alex Castellanos

Drake Britton

Alex Hassan

Ryan Kalish - post injury

 

Not great, but I think we are worse, now.

 

Alex Wilson turned our pretty good.

 

Here is the 2012 roster (more than 40 listed)

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2012-roster.shtml

 

Here's the 49 players who were on our 2018 team's 40 man roster at some point:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2017-roster.shtml

 

These only list players who played- not AAAA or minor leaguers on the 40 man roster.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

https://soxprospects.com/201213OS.htm

[Kimmi]

Life can be hard. We have to be thankful for what blessing we receive. He had many good years and he earned what he was able to accomplish.

 

Very true. Well said.

[mvp 78]

Not great, but I think we are worse, now.

 

Alex Wilson turned our pretty good.

 

Here is the 2012 roster (more than 40 listed)

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2012-roster.shtml

 

Here's the 49 players who were on our 2018 team's 40 man roster at some point:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2017-roster.shtml

 

These only list players who played- not AAAA or minor leaguers on the 40 man roster.

 

 

And not listing the Marcus Wilson’s of the world makes the direct comparisons hard.

[mvp 78]

@JonHeyman

Red Sox remain high on Kike’ Hernandez. Mets and others also interested.

[jacksonianmarch]

@JonHeyman

Red Sox remain high on Kike’ Hernandez. Mets and others also interested.

 

He doesnt really move the dial. Hernandez is a good depth guy who can play everywhere, but he is best when he isnt an everyday starter. In Boston, he would open the year as your 2b with no real challengers (unless Chavis figured out how to his anything above 92)

[moonslav59]

He doesnt really move the dial. Hernandez is a good depth guy who can play everywhere, but he is best when he isnt an everyday starter. In Boston, he would open the year as your 2b with no real challengers (unless Chavis figured out how to his anything above 92)

 

The guy kills lefties (.820 OPS in almost 900 PAs). His .673 OPS vs RHP is not horrible for a 2Bman.

 

Arroyo actually hits righties better than lefties (.678 to .597). Chavis .740 v RHP and .699 v LHP.

 

Between the 3 of them, we'll be improved at 2B with Kike.

 

Also, if we skimp on CF, he could get some time there, if an OF'er struggles (like Beni vs LHPs) or Arroyo or Chavis surprise us with an uptick.

 

Holt was a pretty important piece to our past teams, so could Kike, especially when we are carrying a DH only DH.

 

.

[notin]

He doesnt really move the dial. Hernandez is a good depth guy who can play everywhere, but he is best when he isnt an everyday starter. In Boston, he would open the year as your 2b with no real challengers (unless Chavis figured out how to his anything above 92)

 

That “depth guy” was worth 3.2 fWAR in 2018...

[a700hitter]

@JonHeyman

Red Sox remain high on Kike’ Hernandez. Mets and others also interested.

A much more expensive Brockstar.

[jacksonianmarch]

If we added 8 players and DFA'd the 7 on your list plus one from mine, I wouldn't be upset.

 

We may end up sending Whitlock back, despite having tons of roster space.

Valdez could be a flash in the pan. I'm not confident he's anything better than a replacement level player.

Payamps, to be honest, I'm not even sure why we added tis guy.

Arauz is young and looks good on D. He's borderline, but if we sign a 2Bman, one of Chavis, Arroyo or Arauz should go, one way or another.

 

The only reason the 4 guys on my list aren't on your list is because we'll never need to replace 8-11 players on the 40 man roster.

 

We may sign 2-4 players and trade for 2-3 players (without giving up a 40 man player) and still never get to my list.

 

If Whitlock is healthy, he will likely last the year and be a back end rotation option

[mvp 78]

A much more expensive Brockstar.

 

A much better version of Brockstar.

[mvp 78]

If they could keep Arauz on the roster for a full year, they definitely can keep Whitlock on the roster. Whitlock is a much more valuable player. It'd be dumb to return him.

[mvp 78]

He doesnt really move the dial. Hernandez is a good depth guy who can play everywhere, but he is best when he isnt an everyday starter. In Boston, he would open the year as your 2b with no real challengers (unless Chavis figured out how to his anything above 92)

 

I think Arroyo gets the most reps (for better or worse) this year.

[moonslav59]

I think Arroyo gets the most reps (for better or worse) this year.

 

IMO, management is wide open to the idea that whoever plays better wins the 2B job. I'm not sure anyone already has the inside track.

 

Arroyo has the better D, and Chavis has the better O, in theory. If we sign Hernandez, I'd guess he gets the most reps.

 

To me, choosing who we think will play the most is guessing who we think will do the best.

[jacksonianmarch]

IMO, management is wide open to the idea that whoever plays better wins the 2B job. I'm not sure anyone already has the inside track.

 

Arroyo has the better D, and Chavis has the better O, in theory. If we sign Hernandez, I'd guess he gets the most reps.

 

To me, choosing who we think will play the most is guessing who we think will do the best.

 

Or who the FO thinks they could get the best haul for

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Or who the FO thinks they could get the best haul for

 

Yet, someday, someone could break out -- like Urshela did in Beltran's last year in NYC -- and then most GMs/Officers have to consider actually keeping a guy.

 

What could be more important for a team building for the future than trying to assemble a lineup with good players that will help win in the future?

[mvp 78]

IMO, management is wide open to the idea that whoever plays better wins the 2B job. I'm not sure anyone already has the inside track.

 

Arroyo has the better D, and Chavis has the better O, in theory. If we sign Hernandez, I'd guess he gets the most reps.

 

To me, choosing who we think will play the most is guessing who we think will do the best.

 

I think they've already hinted that they are fine with Arroyo starting. I think we saw at the end of the year that Chavis was phased out of 2b. He only appeared at 2b in 4 games (even partial) last September. His defense is just bad which is why he wound up with more innings in LF than 2b after having zero professional innings in the OF prior to 2020.

[moonslav59]

I think they've already hinted that they are fine with Arroyo starting. I think we saw at the end of the year that Chavis was phased out of 2b. He only appeared at 2b in 4 games (even partial) last September. His defense is just bad which is why he wound up with more innings in LF than 2b after having zero professional innings in the OF prior to 2020.

 

It looks that way, but if Chavis can adjust to how pitchers have figured him out, his offensive upside still leaves the window open, IMO.

[mvp 78]

It looks that way, but if Chavis can adjust to how pitchers have figured him out, his offensive upside still leaves the window open, IMO.

 

First 14 games: 1237 OPS

Since then: 671 OPS

 

I don't think he's going to figure it out. Seems like he never was able to adjust.

 

For reference, Arroyo has a 643 career OPS (719 since 2018).

Edited January 22, 2021 by mvp 78

[notin]

It looks that way, but if Chavis can adjust to how pitchers have figured him out, his offensive upside still leaves the window open, IMO.

 

And then all he will need is a position...

[notin]

First 14 games: 1237 OPS

Since then: 671 OPS

 

I don't think he's going to figure it out. Seems like he never was able to adjust.

 

I'm as down on Chavis as anyone, but at some point we should probably acknowledge his career consists of just 540 plate appearances. That's just one season's worth of PA...

[mvp 78]

And then all he will need is a position...

 

SoxProspects has projected him as the starting 1b in WOO.

[notin]

SoxProspects has projected him as the starting 1b in WOO.

 

I think he could be the starting 1B in Pittsburgh, but I think the strategy for the Sox boils down to not trading away younger players for established veterans...

[mvp 78]

I'm as down on Chavis as anyone, but at some point we should probably acknowledge his career consists of just 540 plate appearances. That's just one season's worth of PA...

 

Not sure he's deserving of 540 more at this point. He has a huge hole in his swing and never came close to adjusting.

[Bellhorn04]

Not sure he's deserving of 540 more at this point. He has a huge hole in his swing and never came close to adjusting.

 

I think you might be a little quick on the draw, writing him off after 540 PA's, the equivalent of one season, with a 728 OPS.

 

But skepticism certainly appears to be warranted.

[notin]

Not sure he's deserving of 540 more at this point. He has a huge hole in his swing and never came close to adjusting.

 

So... players get one season to adjust?

 

And then why are people so high on Dalbec?

 

After 92 PA, Dalbec had .959 OPS, 8 HR, 39K/10BB

 

After 91 PA, Chavis had .999 OPS, 7 HR, 24K/14BB

[mvp 78]

So... players get one season to adjust?

 

And then why are people so high on Dalbec?

 

After 92 PA, Dalbec had .959 OPS, 8 HR, 39K/10BB

 

After 91 PA, Chavis had .999 OPS, 7 HR, 24K/14BB

 

This makes no sense. This isn't even a coherent argument. Dalbec hasn't had the swoon that Chavis has gone through. Chavis has had a 671 OPS since 5/5/19. That's more indicative of his future success than his PAs before the scouting report got out on him.