Yankees 2020 offseason thread

[jacksonianmarch]

Rumor is that this will allow the Yanks to sign Kluber at $6-$8 mil for one season. They’re expected to be a finalist for his services.

 

I’m not gonna lie, I’d rather someone with more durability and less upside so our pen isn’t gassed by July. We have Severino coming back mid season and our lineup and pen are good enough to sustain a mid 4’s ERA pitcher and win a bunch with him as long as he can give some length. But Kluber is a total wild card. He’s a guy you sign to be your #5 with a couple options in the 6 and 7 slot. While we have some talented kids that are close to big league ready, we don’t have the bulk of the rotation of a standard title contender. And kids usually do better when there is a strong base of the rotation already to take the expectation pressure off of them. Right now you’ve got Cole and Montgomery as the only real big leaguers who aren’t coming off a layoff or aren’t rookies. German won’t have started a game in 19 months by April. Garcia is a kid. Schmidt is a kid. It would be best if you could add a reliable guy to Cole and Montgomery. Kluber isn’t that. Then again, he’s the best high upside value on the market. This is a big time gamble for a title contending team if they go this route

[Bellhorn04]

Surely Kluber can get more than $6-8 mill.

[bkzwhitestrican]

I would like to personally thank the Yankees for trading for Stanton a few years ago.

 

We'll see if it ends up being worse than signing Ellsbury. At least Stanton is good when he plays, whereas Ells was only good his first year. But health is a skill, and Stanton don't have it.

 

Stanton in 3 seasons: 199 G, .266/.352/.506, 5.1 total WAR (Postseason 17 G, .267/.352/.683)

Smellsbury in first 3 seasons: 408 G, .279/.326/.382, 6.5 total WAR (Postseason 7 G, .000/.153/.000)

[moonslav59]

We'll see if it ends up being worse than signing Ellsbury. At least Stanton is good when he plays, whereas Ells was only good his first year. But health is a skill, and Stanton don't have it.

 

Stanton in 3 seasons: 199 G, .266/.352/.506, 5.1 total WAR (Postseason 17 G, .267/.352/.683)

Smellsbury in first 3 seasons: 408 G, .279/.326/.382, 6.5 total WAR (Postseason 7 G, .000/.153/.000)

 

I'm happy, too.

 

Remember, Miami is paying $30M to the Yanks ($3M a year on the tax budget), so he's basically making what JD gets, but for 10 years.

[jacksonianmarch]

If he can stay healthy with a full off-season, full spring and appropriate ramp up, then he will earn his keep. His issue is health and he has been awful with that the last 2 years

[Kimmi]

DJ thought he would get a $125 mil for 5. $90 mil for 6 is a steal, especially since it pushes the AAV down to $15 mil

 

I would have been very shocked if DJ signed with anyone besides the Yankees, but I'm surprised he accepted $15 mil AAV.

[Bellhorn04]

I would have been very shocked if DJ signed with anyone besides the Yankees, but I'm surprised he accepted $15 mil AAV.

 

I read that the Blue Jays offered 4/$78, which is $19.5 AAV.

 

This way he gets an extra $12 mill guaranteed and presumably gets to play where he wants.

 

Seems like a winner for both sides.

[Kimmi]

We'll see if it ends up being worse than signing Ellsbury. At least Stanton is good when he plays, whereas Ells was only good his first year. But health is a skill, and Stanton don't have it.

 

Stanton in 3 seasons: 199 G, .266/.352/.506, 5.1 total WAR (Postseason 17 G, .267/.352/.683)

Smellsbury in first 3 seasons: 408 G, .279/.326/.382, 6.5 total WAR (Postseason 7 G, .000/.153/.000)

 

Stanton has a long way to go with his contract. If he can stay healthy, he can certainly make up for some of that lost time. We'll see.

[Bellhorn04]

The other thing about Stanton is, he's basically a DH now. He has so many issues with his legs that it would be silly to play him in the field.

[Kimmi]

I read that the Blue Jays offered 4/$78, which is $19.5 AAV.

 

This way he gets an extra $12 mill guaranteed and presumably gets to play where he wants.

 

Seems like a winner for both sides.

 

He does get to play where he wants, which is not a small factor, IMO.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yanks sign Kluber. I hope he can stay healthy.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The other thing about Stanton is, he's basically a DH now. He has so many issues with his legs that it would be silly to play him in the field.

 

Well, you know those large humans, with so much more surface and interior areas of muscles and joints, they're just bound to break down more often than more compact athletes.

[moonslav59]

Yanks sign Kluber. I hope he can stay healthy.

 

$11M/1

 

Not bad.

 

Not sure the Sox could have gotten him for $12M, but I'd have paid as much.

[Kimmi]

Yanks sign Kluber. I hope he can stay healthy.

 

I like this deal for the Yankees. I would have done this for the Sox in a heartbeat. $11M might seem like a lot for a 35 year old pitcher who hasn't pitched much in the last 2 years due to injury, but it's a one-year deal. If he's not healthy, the sunk cost is easy to absorb.

 

OTOH, he could end up being very good. He's very much worth the risk. A writer also mentioned the benefits of his intangibles, which I thought was a good point.

[bkzwhitestrican]

Not a fan of this deal. Our rotation beyond Cole is just a bunch of question marks, and now Kluber is one more.

[moonslav59]

I like this deal for the Yankees. I would have done this for the Sox in a heartbeat. $11M might seem like a lot for a 35 year old pitcher who hasn't pitched much in the last 2 years due to injury, but it's a one-year deal. If he's not healthy, the sunk cost is easy to absorb.

 

OTOH, he could end up being very good. He's very much worth the risk. A writer also mentioned the benefits of his intangibles, which I thought was a good point.

 

I'm not going to pretend I wish the Sox did not sign him for slightly more, but $11-12M is still a lot of money. For a team looking to rebuild- mostly for 2022 and beyond, deals like this are just bridges and fan appeasement type choices and may take away from the ability to build for a stronger long term outlook. Yes, one year deals don't hurt as much when the player flops, but on the flip side, when they do very well, they leave a big hole the next winter.

 

Also, our rotation is full of pitchers with serious health issues. Kluber saw his velocity drop after 2016 from around 94 mph to about 92 mph. It's hard to be critical of his 2017 and 2018 seasons, where he put up some great numbers, including 2 of his best 3 ERA- seasons and, by far, his best two WHIP seasons (0.87 & 0.99), but if his velocity is now around 90 mph, there remains the big question on how effective he can be. If he needs to re-invent himself from a K pitcher or "thrower" to more of a finesse type pitcher, it may take more than a year, if ever.

 

Again, I'm not projecting doom for Kluber. I wish we had signed him to a 1 year deal, but if he struggles, it will be a big step down from Tanaka for the Yanks.

[a700hitter]

If the Red Sox had signed him, they would have had the elite DL starting rotation.

[moonslav59]

What are the odds of either team having a SP'er get even 25 GS'd & 160+ IP?

[jacksonianmarch]

Cole is on the Yanks. He should go 32 and 200+

[Kimmi]

Not a fan of this deal. Our rotation beyond Cole is just a bunch of question marks, and now Kluber is one more.

 

IMO, his potential upside outweighs the risk. That said, the Yankees need a solid Plan B in case Kluber can't pitch.

[Kimmi]

I'm not going to pretend I wish the Sox did not sign him for slightly more, but $11-12M is still a lot of money. For a team looking to rebuild- mostly for 2022 and beyond, deals like this are just bridges and fan appeasement type choices and may take away from the ability to build for a stronger long term outlook. Yes, one year deals don't hurt as much when the player flops, but on the flip side, when they do very well, they leave a big hole the next winter.

 

Also, our rotation is full of pitchers with serious health issues. Kluber saw his velocity drop after 2016 from around 94 mph to about 92 mph. It's hard to be critical of his 2017 and 2018 seasons, where he put up some great numbers, including 2 of his best 3 ERA- seasons and, by far, his best two WHIP seasons (0.87 & 0.99), but if his velocity is now around 90 mph, there remains the big question on how effective he can be. If he needs to re-invent himself from a K pitcher or "thrower" to more of a finesse type pitcher, it may take more than a year, if ever.

 

Again, I'm not projecting doom for Kluber. I wish we had signed him to a 1 year deal, but if he struggles, it will be a big step down from Tanaka for the Yanks.

 

No doubt that Kluber carries a lot of question marks with him. I still think he's worth the chance. I get that he wouldn't be part of the plan beyond this year, but I'm looking to compete this year and I think Kluber would help us get there.

 

I would much rather see a deal like this than a 5+ year deal for Bauer.

[moonslav59]

I would much rather see a deal like this than a 5+ year deal for Bauer.

 

Something in between could help us in 2021 and beyond- like Odorizzi to a 3 year deal.

[moonslav59]

Cole is on the Yanks. He should go 32 and 200+

 

I meant to specify just the questionable pitchers on bot teams- basically every starter, except Cole.

[jacksonianmarch]

IMO, his potential upside outweighs the risk. That said, the Yankees need a solid Plan B in case Kluber can't pitch.

 

Ding ding ding. For the sox, these are the type of moves you make with an eye towards dealing at the deadline. For the sox, if Kluber was good, they could use the $6-7 mil or so (pre-ASB) as an investment in a prospect package. If he sucked, then you only lose money and it's a 1 year deal. I do not dislike this move for the Yanks in terms of upside and commitment. I dislike the idea that he will be leaned on as if he is a constant, which he clearly is not

[jacksonianmarch]

Yanks are apparently intent on resetting again this year. In doing so, I’d assume they’ll spend again after 2021, and Thor will be a free agent.

[Kimmi]

Ding ding ding. For the sox, these are the type of moves you make with an eye towards dealing at the deadline. For the sox, if Kluber was good, they could use the $6-7 mil or so (pre-ASB) as an investment in a prospect package. If he sucked, then you only lose money and it's a 1 year deal. I do not dislike this move for the Yanks in terms of upside and commitment. I dislike the idea that he will be leaned on as if he is a constant, which he clearly is not

 

Well, why would we trade Kluber at the ASB if he's good? Quit assuming that the Sox aren't going to the playoffs.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, why would we trade Kluber at the ASB if he's good? Quit assuming that the Sox aren't going to the playoffs.

 

The Sox were the fourth worst team in baseball last year. They’ve got no MLB ready farm. They’ve made no measurable improvements. They’re not acting like they’re playoff contenders. They’re not making the playoffs

[moonslav59]

The Sox were the fourth worst team in baseball last year. They’ve got no MLB ready farm. They’ve made no measurable improvements. They’re not acting like they’re playoff contenders. They’re not making the playoffs

 

So, winter signings and trades are over?

 

Nobody ever comes back from injuries? (BTW, the Yanks don't win, if players injured, last year, don't come back.)

 

(Dalbec is still considered a rookie or "ML farm ready.")

[jacksonianmarch]

So, winter signings and trades are over?

 

Nobody ever comes back from injuries? (BTW, the Yanks don't win, if players injured, last year, don't come back.)

 

(Dalbec is still considered a rookie or "ML farm ready.")

 

Dalbec replaced Chavis as the hope for the next home grown power hitter.

[moonslav59]

Dalbec replaced Chavis as the hope for the next home grown power hitter.

 

Dalbec is better than Chavis and is "ML farm ready", right?