2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

Maybe they think they can get Kolten Wong for much less? Or Marcus Semien?

 

They can definitely get Cesar Hernandez for a lot less, not to mention numerous other second basemen who all have varying pedigrees in MLB.

 

The two deepest positions in this FA market appear to be relief pitcher and 2B...

 

I wanted them to sign Kim. They didn't. My guess is their scouts are far more knowledgeable about Kim than I am (I know that's hard for you guys to believe).

[mvp 78]

Maybe they think they can get Kolten Wong for much less? Or Marcus Semien?

 

They can definitely get Cesar Hernandez for a lot less, not to mention numerous other second basemen who all have varying pedigrees in MLB.

 

The two deepest positions in this FA market appear to be relief pitcher and 2B...

 

I wanted them to sign Kim. They didn't. My guess is their scouts are far more knowledgeable about Kim than I am (I know that's hard for you guys to believe). Wong and Semien are both probably much better than Kim.

[notin]

I'm not saying he's a starter, just that he's a better bet to be a backup than Wong.

 

Backup catcher is not a need. The Sox have Plawecki.

 

If they deal Vazquez. hopefully they do not just promote Plawecki...

[mvp 78]

Backup catcher is not a need. The Sox have Plawecki.

 

If they deal Vazquez. hopefully they do not just promote Plawecki...

 

It's not a need right now. It was only curious since some posters on here are quick to trade off Vaz. It's not like Plawecki would start 162.

[notin]

It's not a need right now. It was only curious since some posters on here are quick to trade off Vaz. It's not like Plawecki would start 162.

 

No. I was hoping if they dealt Vazquez, they might sign Zunino, but he is off the market. There is not much left unless you like Wilson Ramos or Tyler Flowers...

[notin]

I wanted them to sign Kim. They didn't. My guess is their scouts are far more knowledgeable about Kim than I am (I know that's hard for you guys to believe). Wong and Semien are both probably much better than Kim.

 

Like I said, 2B is one of the positions the Sox can wait a bit and probably steal a good player for very little money. Of course, the main reason to do that is to be able to spend more on pitching, and rght now I am not sure what pitching is worth spending on.

 

Kluber and Tanaka would be nice, but it is also possible both are barely able to pitch this season...

[mvp 78]

Like I said, 2B is one of the positions the Sox can wait a bit and probably steal a good player for very little money. Of course, the main reason to do that is to be able to spend more on pitching, and rght now I am not sure what pitching is worth spending on.

 

Kluber and Tanaka would be nice, but it is also possible both are barely able to pitch this season...

 

Sox lucked out that one of their needs matched a glut in the marketplace. Unfortunately, they still have to fill CF.

[mvp 78]

No. I was hoping if they dealt Vazquez, they might sign Zunino, but he is off the market. There is not much left unless you like Wilson Ramos or Tyler Flowers...

 

I think I'd rather just keep Vaz unless I got bowled over with an offer. I'd probably take Flowers over Ramos, but I wouldn't sign either for more than 1 year.

[notin]

Sox lucked out that one of their needs matched a glut in the marketplace. Unfortunately, they still have to fill CF.

 

True.

 

But while the CF FA market is weak, the CF "potential contract dump" market has a few intriguing names, including Kiermaier, Lornzo Cain, Ender Inciarte, Scott Kingery, Dexter Fowler, Jason Heyward and Wil Myers. Granted, not all are smart options...

[mvp 78]

True.

 

But while the CF FA market is weak, the CF "potential contract dump" market has a few intriguing names, including Kiermaier, Lornzo Cain, Ender Inciarte, Scott Kingery, Dexter Fowler, Jason Heyward and Wil Myers. Granted, not all are smart options...

 

Of those guys, I guess Kiermaier could be ok if you are only giving up a B level prospect. Cain, Fowler, Heyward and Myers aren't really CFers anymore and I want to keep Verdugo in RF.

 

Inciarte is a weird one for me. Offensively, his contact rate has taken a nose dive the past two years. Same with his defense. I don't see the appeal.

 

I don't know what to think about Kingery. Seems to be more of a super utility guy than someone you just slot in for CF. There was a lot of hype for him a few years ago, but he really floundered in 2020. His contract isn't really a killer though and he has the highest upside of any of the guys you mentioned.

[moonslav59]

Of those guys, I guess Kiermaier could be ok if you are only giving up a B level prospect. Cain, Fowler, Heyward and Myers aren't really CFers anymore and I want to keep Verdugo in RF.

 

Inciarte is a weird one for me. Offensively, his contact rate has taken a nose dive the past two years. Same with his defense. I don't see the appeal.

 

I don't know what to think about Kingery. Seems to be more of a super utility guy than someone you just slot in for CF. There was a lot of hype for him a few years ago, but he really floundered in 2020. His contract isn't really a killer though and he has the highest upside of any of the guys you mentioned.

 

I'dc prefer keeping Verdugo in RF, too, but he'd be fine in CF.

 

Here's the plus about Kingery: although he's owed $20M/3, his luxury tax number is just $4M. We could probably get Philly to pay us $4M a year and get him for nothing.

 

I'm not sure about Inciarte & Fowler, either.

 

Kiermaier has negative trade value, and is still a plus defender in CF. We could probably get him and Fairbanks for a B level prospect. We could maybe get something better with him by giving TB Duran.

[moonslav59]

I think I'd rather just keep Vaz unless I got bowled over with an offer. I'd probably take Flowers over Ramos, but I wouldn't sign either for more than 1 year.

 

If we could trade Vaz for prospects that could net us Stallings & Frazier from Pitt, would you do it?

 

(I'd like to expand the deal to include Taillon, but I seem to be in a minority. I'm not for getting Musgrove or Sonny Gray.)

[moonslav59]

Grullon has been waived twice in the past 6 months. I am not so sure he makes for an adequate Plan B for a MLB team in need of a starting catcher...

 

True, but he's more ML ready than Wong.

[mvp 78]

If we could trade Vaz for prospects that could net us Stallings & Frazier from Pitt, would you do it?

 

(I'd like to expand the deal to include Taillon, but I seem to be in a minority. I'm not for getting Musgrove or Sonny Gray.)

 

No. I'd rather keep Vaz than downgrade at C and get a 2b. There are more than enough 2bs sitting out there in FA.

[mvp 78]

True, but he's more ML ready than Wong.

 

That was my only point.

 

Wong has a much higher ceiling, but we know that Catchers take longer to develop.

[notin]

If we could trade Vaz for prospects that could net us Stallings & Frazier from Pitt, would you do it?

 

(I'd like to expand the deal to include Taillon, but I seem to be in a minority. I'm not for getting Musgrove or Sonny Gray.)

 

If the Sox deal Vaz, it better be for pitching. I'd rather have one Vazquez than 10 Adam Fraziers'...

[Sox75]

This seems to sum up where we are at...

 

https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/12/28/red-sox-chaim-bloom-miss-acquisitions/

[Bellhorn04]

This seems to sum up where we are at...

 

https://bosoxinjection.com/2020/12/28/red-sox-chaim-bloom-miss-acquisitions/

 

A mindless piece, if you ask me.

 

A tiny % of free agents have been signed to date.

[moonslav59]

If the Sox deal Vaz, it better be for pitching. I'd rather have one Vazquez than 10 Adam Fraziers'...

 

I'm not sure Vaz is any better than Stallings. My trade suggestion was more about Taillon and/or Stallings.

[notin]

A mindless piece, if you ask me.

 

A tiny % of free agents have been signed to date.

 

Should the Sox really be concerned that JD Martinez might opt out?

[Sox75]

A mindless piece, if you ask me.

 

A tiny % of free agents have been signed to date.

 

Somewhat? But... at a certain point, you do begin to wonder what the plan is? We assume Chaim has a plan, but I don't think anybody has a solid grasp on what that plan is? We have so many major league holes to fill... from 2nd base, 1st base, CF?, to SP & BP, that I'm beginning to wonder if we are destined to go 2nd & 3rd tier at every gap.

 

Long term? That could well be the right move, but it certainly doesn't necessarily comport with what Bloom & Warner, others have been saying.

 

Obviously, i don't expect or want Bloom unzipping his fly, just to show what he can do, but I do worry that they haven't already missed out on guys they were targeting?

 

Who knows?

 

We can guess all day long at the ultimate targets, but none of us really know s***.

 

I'm not too worried yet, but that's more because I don't see our big guns from the farm ready for another year or two.

Either way... the rebuild continues, and we all see when we see.

[notin]

I'm not sure Vaz is any better than Stallings. My trade suggestion was more about Taillon and/or Stallings.

 

If minimum wage Stallings is any good, why wouldn't Philly just cut us out of the deal and trade for Taillon/Stallings/etc. themselves? They need a catcher. And they could use the pitching upgrade in Taillon.

 

They could even use Adam Frazier at 2B and slide Segura back to SS...

[Bellhorn04]

Should the Sox really be concerned that JD Martinez might opt out?

 

Did it really say that? I thought the dumbest part was about the Snell trade, and how the heck did Bloom miss out on that? Should have been cake to beat the Padres' offer!

 

Really stupid stuff.

[notin]

Did it really say that? I thought the dumbest part was about the Snell trade, and how the heck did Bloom miss out on that? Should have been cake to beat the Padres' offer!

 

Really stupid stuff.

 

So are you saying that Phillips Valdez isn't more appealing than pre-2020 BA #18 Luis Patino?

 

This was 100% on Bloom. Just because you're armed with a cap gun in your duel with a man armed with a rifle is no reason to not pull the trigger...

[notin]

The Twins signed Hansel Robles.

 

Robles was one third of the set of relievers I suggested the Sox sign two from. (And yes, I am ending that sentence with a preposition. Deal with it.)

 

Now Bloom needs to gout and get Hand and Bradley...

[moonslav59]

If minimum wage Stallings is any good, why wouldn't Philly just cut us out of the deal and trade for Taillon/Stallings/etc. themselves? They need a catcher. And they could use the pitching upgrade in Taillon.

 

They could. We could before them.

[notin]

Per MLBTR, the Cubs are aggressively shopping Willson Contreras, who is essentially the same player as Vazquez, and could earn very similar amounts in 2021 and 2022. Contreras was worth 5.1 fWAR with 3 DRS in the past 3 seasons, Vazquez was worth 5.3 fWAR and 5 DRS in that same time frame.

 

Sorta makes it harder to deal Vazquez...

[moonslav59]

Per MLBTR, the Cubs are aggressively shopping Willson Contreras, who is essentially the same player as Vazquez, and could earn very similar amounts in 2021 and 2022. Contreras was worth 5.1 fWAR with 3 DRS in the past 3 seasons, Vazquez was worth 5.3 fWAR and 5 DRS in that same time frame.

 

Sorta makes it harder to deal Vazquez...

 

I've never said it will be easy to get a nice return for Vazquez, but of all the FT players we have at a reasonable cost, he seems like the one I feel is most likely to get us what we need without needing to trade pitching.

[harmony]

Per MLBTR, the Cubs are aggressively shopping Willson Contreras, who is essentially the same player as Vazquez, and could earn very similar amounts in 2021 and 2022. Contreras was worth 5.1 fWAR with 3 DRS in the past 3 seasons, Vazquez was worth 5.3 fWAR and 5 DRS in that same time frame.

 

Sorta makes it harder to deal Vazquez...

Baseball Trade Values assigns 30-year-old Christian Vazquez a surplus value of $21 million and 28-year-old Willson Contreras a surplus value of $28.3 million.

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/players/9649/

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/players/7916/

[notin]

Baseball Trade Values assigns 30-year-old Christian Vazquez a surplus value of $21 million and 28-year-old Willson Contreras a surplus value of $28.3 million.

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/players/9649/

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/players/7916/

 

 

1. You know I am aware of that site.

 

2. How is it relevant to my point?