2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[moonslav59]

Dexter Fowler + almost $13M to Angels in trade.

 

He's owed $16.5M/1.

 

I'm not sure what is going to STL, but Fowler for less than $4M/1 seems pretty good.

[moonslav59]

Top 10 remaining FAs per MLBTR...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/02/top-10-remaining-free-agents-8.html

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I understand the thinking. There is a lot of merit to the idea of spreading out the risk.

 

I just can't get over a top spending team like the Sox not being able to afford a once in a lifetime player like Mookie.

 

The fact that Boston's payroll is already high may be the reason they're didn't spend large the past two years... but only they know what they can actually afford.

 

It will be interesting to see how long Henry and Co will wait for Bloom's gradual rebuild. But I'm on record that some Red Sox GM in the near future will sign a big money free agent who will never be as good for a franchise -- in so many ways -- as Mookie Betts.

[Bellhorn04]

It will be interesting to see how long Henry and Co will wait for Bloom's gradual rebuild. But I'm on record that some Red Sox GM in the near future will sign a big money free agent who will never be as good for a franchise -- in so many ways -- as Mookie Betts.

 

Mookie is a fantastic player, but was he great for the Red Sox franchise? I'm not so sure. We're going on limited info, but he did turn down multiple offers and seemed to take a hardball line with the team. On the other hand you have Xander Bogaerts who signed an extension for one-third of what Mookie was looking for.

[notin]

Mookie is a fantastic player, but was he great for the Red Sox franchise? I'm not so sure. We're going on limited info, but he did turn down multiple offers and seemed to take a hardball line with the team. On the other hand you have Xander Bogaerts who signed an extension for one-third of what Mookie was looking for.

 

On the field he was great. To the tune of 37.2 fWAR. For some perspective, Betts achieved that total in 5 years. It took Hall of Famer Jim Rice 10 years to achieve that to total..

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Mookie is a fantastic player, but was he great for the Red Sox franchise? I'm not so sure. We're going on limited info, but he did turn down multiple offers and seemed to take a hardball line with the team. On the other hand you have Xander Bogaerts who signed an extension for one-third of what Mookie was looking for.

 

Mookie wanted fair market value -- at least as much as Harper and Machado -- and another team established his market by offering him a contract he signed. If Betts' deal hampers the Dodgers' pursuit of other talent, as very few fans probably fear, that would be a detriment. But now they're reportedly one of the two finalists for Bauer...

[Bellhorn04]

On the field he was great. To the tune of 37.2 fWAR. For some perspective, Betts achieved that total in 5 years. It took Hall of Famer Jim Rice 10 years to achieve that to total..

 

You're preaching to the choir on that point. The only real question is did the Red Sox screw the pooch in historic fashion, or did Mookie hardball-negotiate his way out of town?

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie wanted fair market value -- at least as much as Harper and Machado -- and another team established his market by offering him a contract he signed.

 

The pandemic was a pretty nifty X Factor in the matter though.

 

How could Mookie turn down 10 years and $300 million (presumably only an opening offer) and then sign for 12 years and $307 million in present day dollars, if it wasn't all about playing where he wanted to? Ask yourself that.

[notin]

You're preaching to the choir on that point. The only real question is did the Red Sox screw the pooch in historic fashion, or did Mookie hardball-negotiate his way out of town?

 

Not sure if they would have committed that much to him, but the Sox do have precedent in the Henry Era of paying players to be the among highest paid in the game. But with so many other commitments, not sure if Betts was possible on top of all that.

 

At the very least, it is nice that Bogaerts was...

[notin]

Dexter Fowler + almost $13M to Angels in trade.

 

He's owed $16.5M/1.

 

I'm not sure what is going to STL, but Fowler for less than $4M/1 seems pretty good.

 

And only for one year while they figure out who gets to take over RF between Jo Adell and Brandon Marsh. No doubt Fowler's former manager Joe Maddon made this recommendation...

[Bellhorn04]

Not sure if they would have committed that much to him, but the Sox do have precedent in the Henry Era of paying players to be the among highest paid in the game. But with so many other commitments, not sure if Betts was possible on top of all that.

 

Well, they did offer him $300 million. Why do you keep leaving that out of the equation?

[notin]

Well, they did offer him $300 million. Why do you keep leaving that out of the equation?

 

They did. But once you bring up Harper and Trout, is that really in the ballpark anymore?

 

If he wanted to be paid among the best in the game, was 4th best good enough?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The pandemic was a pretty nifty X Factor in the matter though.

 

How could Mookie turn down 10 years and $300 million (presumably only an opening offer) and then sign for 12 years and $307 million in present day dollars, if it wasn't all about playing where he wanted to? Ask yourself that.

 

I have, and it's the worst part of him being traded; if the Sox had kept him and made a pandemic Godfather offer last summer, he just may have signed in Boston. I think he wanted to play somewhere else, but I never thought there would be a possibility of him returning once he was dealt.

[moonslav59]

The fact that Boston's payroll is already high may be the reason they're didn't spend large the past two years... but only they know what they can actually afford.

 

It will be interesting to see how long Henry and Co will wait for Bloom's gradual rebuild. But I'm on record that some Red Sox GM in the near future will sign a big money free agent who will never be as good for a franchise -- in so many ways -- as Mookie Betts.

 

They knew the Betts contract time was coming up. They chose to spend on other players, instead.

 

Sure, none of them got an 8 to 12 year contract, and maybe that is precisely the type of deal Henry wants to avoid going forward.

 

Maybe David Price is the last of our 7 or longer year contracts, especially to anyone 30 or older. That was December, 2015.

 

Chris Sale got only 5 years (with an option). JD got 5.

 

Hell, we extended Bogey for 6 years, but he got an opt out, and the first year of his deal began at age 27!

[moonslav59]

And only for one year while they figure out who gets to take over RF between Jo Adell and Brandon Marsh. No doubt Fowler's former manager Joe Maddon made this recommendation...

 

I had suggested a few deals with STL involing Fowler and cash or a prospect. Some involved Beni or Vaz for more pieces.

[notin]

I had suggested a few deals with STL involing Fowler and cash or a prospect. Some involved Beni or Vaz for more pieces.

 

St. Louis was might have been better off waiting and dumping him for a quarter on the dollar. Getting Vaz would have been good for them, but they have sufficient OF depth with Bader, O'Neill and Lane Thomas already..

[mvp 78]

You're preaching to the choir on that point. The only real question is did the Red Sox screw the pooch in historic fashion, or did Mookie hardball-negotiate his way out of town?

 

Woof woof...

[mvp 78]

Well, they did offer him $300 million. Why do you keep leaving that out of the equation?

 

Which ended up being 80% of what he actually got. It was a lowball offer.

[moonslav59]

St. Louis was might have been better off waiting and dumping him for a quarter on the dollar. Getting Vaz would have been good for them, but they have sufficient OF depth with Bader, O'Neill and Lane Thomas already..

 

Well, the trades that involved Vaz & Beni had Fowler & Bader coming to the Sox.

[moonslav59]

So, Wong gets $9M x 2, while EHern got $7M x 2.

 

MLBTR did not see these two as that similar.

 

Did you?

 

(I have to think EHern's ability to play CF well must have been the main reason we went with EHern, right?)

[Bellhorn04]

They did. But once you bring up Harper and Trout, is that really in the ballpark anymore?

 

If he wanted to be paid among the best in the game, was 4th best good enough?

 

$307 million present value over 12 years apparently was...

[Bellhorn04]

Which ended up being 80% of what he actually got. It was a lowball offer.

 

No. He ended up talking an even lower AAV.

 

And I'm confident the $300 mill was an opening offer.

[Bellhorn04]

And you can't compare to Harper or Machado, either. They were free agents. Mookie had 2 years before free agency when they made the offer. Normally there's a tradeoff between risk and price.

[notin]

The Ozuna market is heating up, and the only teams mentioned are the Rays and Braves. Yes, the Rays.

 

Bloom -make some damn calls here!

[Bellhorn04]

The Ozuna market is heating up, and the only teams mentioned are the Rays and Braves. Yes, the Rays.

 

Bloom -make some damn calls here!

 

I'd rather he call some pitchers, personally.

[notin]

I'd rather he call some pitchers, personally.

 

Hoping he calls enough RP to at least push Valdez down to Worcester and Brice into free agency...

[moonslav59]

I'd rather he call some pitchers, personally.

 

Gotta like Ozuna's .886 OPS from 2019-2020, and his 47 HRs (85 XBH) in 816 PAs. His 2017 season of .924 and 69 XBHs was really good, too, but I'd take Odorizzi over Ozuna all day long.

 

It would push someone like Houck, Pivetta or even Eovaldi to the pen and improve two slots with one signing.

 

Ozuna basically forces a Beni Renfroe platoon in RF, with maybe Beni playing CF vs RHPs. Signing Ozuna helps the O, but messes up an already shaky OF defensive layout.

[moonslav59]

Hoping he calls enough RP to at least push Valdez down to Worcester and Brice into free agency...

 

YES! Signing Odorrizi and a RP'er or two would do the same trick.

[notin]

Gotta like Ozuna's .886 OPS from 2019-2020, and his 47 HRs (85 XBH) in 816 PAs. His 2017 season of .924 and 69 XBHs was really good, too, but I'd take Odorizzi over Ozuna all day long.

 

It would push someone like Houck, Pivetta or even Eovaldi to the pen and improve two slots with one signing.

 

Ozuna basically forces a Beni Renfroe platoon in RF, with maybe Beni playing CF vs RHPs. Signing Ozuna helps the O, but messes up an already shaky OF defensive layout.

 

The buzz on Odorizzi has dried up completely. What does a former All Star starting pitcher need to do to get some love?

[Bellhorn04]

Gotta like Ozuna's .886 OPS from 2019-2020, and his 47 HRs (85 XBH) in 816 PAs. His 2017 season of .924 and 69 XBHs was really good, too, but I'd take Odorizzi over Ozuna all day long.

 

It would push someone like Houck, Pivetta or even Eovaldi to the pen and improve two slots with one signing.

 

Ozuna basically forces a Beni Renfroe platoon in RF, with maybe Beni playing CF vs RHPs. Signing Ozuna helps the O, but messes up an already shaky OF defensive layout.

 

Signing Ozuna also puts us well over the tax threshold, with our bigger needs still lying in the pitching area. It would make no sense at all, frankly.