Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[mvp 78]

It's a very unofficial list.

 

Garciaparra sucked after the trade and was moved off position. He shouldn't be on here.

 

SS should be Hanley Ramirez.

 

FACT

[notin]

Garciaparra sucked after the trade and was moved off position. He shouldn't be on here.

 

SS should be Hanley Ramirez.

 

FACT

 

One could argue for both Hanley and Burleson over Nomar…

[Bellhorn04]

Garciaparra sucked after the trade and was moved off position. He shouldn't be on here.

 

SS should be Hanley Ramirez.

 

FACT

 

Depends what criteria are used.

[mvp 78]

One could argue for both Hanley and Burleson over Nomar…

 

Burleson had one good year after the trade. Hanley had several.

[mvp 78]

Depends what criteria are used.

 

The right criteria.

[Bellhorn04]

The right criteria.

 

It was just for fun. You guys are mean.

[mvp 78]

It was just for fun. You guys are mean.

 

When you get notin and me on the same side of an argument, you done f***ed up.

[jad]

This is just an exercise on the best players the Red Sox traded away.

 

Ha. But Lee Smith was awesome! Even if the RS-version of Gagne sucked.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Perhaps the problem was not that the Red Sox traded Mookie, that was the smart move all along. Perhaps the problem concerns Bloom's evaluation of the players the Red Sox acquired for Mookie.

 

At this point, the return seems rather light from a Dodgers farm system that was loaded with talent. Obviously, this can change and we will need a few more years to properly assess the players the Red Sox acquired. At present, Verdugo isn't performing as he was expected to perform with a 101 OPS+, a league average offensive player. Downs has been horrible in AAA this year, striking out 30% of the time and hitting around the .200 mark. And Wong, the least promising player in the trade, has lived up to his low expectations by not hitting at all.

 

Was Bloom fleeced in this trade and if he was what does that say about Bloom's ability to judge and evaluate young players? I realize it is too early to draw any definitive conclusions one way or the other, but the players the Red Sox acquired for Mookie have all trended in the wrong direction.

[mvp 78]

Mookie 2020 season and Qualifying Offer

 

vs

 

Verdugo for 5 seasons, plus Wong, plus Downs

 

Last year, Mookie was a 3 fWAR player. In the past two seasons, Verdugo is already at an accumulated 2.9 fWAR and he has 3 more years to go.

 

Would you rather a comp pick or Wong and Downs?

 

I think the deal already seems very fair for the Sox. The Sox weren't going to re-sign him and all they were going to get after 2020 was a comp pick.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Perhaps the problem was not that the Red Sox traded Mookie, that was the smart move all along. Perhaps the problem concerns Bloom's evaluation of the players the Red Sox acquired for Mookie.

 

At this point, the return seems rather light from a Dodgers farm system that was loaded with talent. Obviously, this can change and we will need a few more years to properly assess the players the Red Sox acquired. At present, Verdugo isn't performing as he was expected to perform with a 101 OPS+, a league average offensive player. Downs has been horrible in AAA this year, striking out 30% of the time and hitting around the .200 mark. And Wong, the least promising player in the trade, has lived up to his low expectations by not hitting at all.

 

Was Bloom fleeced in this trade and if he was what does that say about Bloom's ability to judge and evaluate young players? I realize it is too early to draw any definitive conclusions one way or the other, but the players the Red Sox acquired for Mookie have all trended in the wrong direction.

 

You realize you just set yourself up -- smack-dab in the dregs of the worst losing streak of the year -- for multiple angry posts of "Get over it, move on" or the what-was-once-logical "It's a great haul for 12 months of Betts".

 

For the record, I always wanted Verdugo in the deal, and still think he'll have a better career than, say, Benintendi. But I also demanded at least one of the many Dodger pitching prospects. Once we all found out what Friedman was really thinking -- he was trading for 156 months of Betts -- we knew he could've probably been pushed for an arm. But of course, the return was absolutely affected by getting LA to agree to take Price.

[mvp 78]

You realize you just set yourself up -- smack-dab in the dregs of the worst losing streak of the year -- for multiple angry posts of "Get over it, move on" or the what-was-once-logical "It's a great haul for 12 months of Betts".

 

For the record, I always wanted Verdugo in the deal, and still think he'll have a better career than, say, Benintendi. But I also demanded at least one of the many Dodger pitching prospects. Once we all found out what Friedman was really thinking -- he was trading for 156 months of Betts -- we knew he could've probably been pushed for an arm. But of course, the return was absolutely affected by getting LA to agree to take Price.

 

Was the original trade Verdugo and Graterol? I thought the Sox balked at Graterol due to an injury and got Downs and Wong instead. Would Graterol have made the trade better? Graterol pitched well last year, but has been bad this year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Was the original trade Verdugo and Graterol? I thought the Sox balked at Graterol due to an injury and got Downs and Wong instead. Would Graterol have made the trade better? Graterol pitched well last year, but has been bad this year.

 

It was indeed Graterol, but then the Sox rejected his medicals. It's just hard to believe that with all the Dodgers' pitching prospects, they had to get a third team involved for Bloom to get an arm.

[dgalehouse]

Verdugo was somewhat damaged goods due to a rather unsavory off-field incident. He apparently has been a model citizen in Boston, if a tad disappointing at the plate.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Would you rather a comp pick or Wong and Downs?

 

I agree with 5GoldGlove--a quality pitching prospect would have been nice, but a better return overall would have been the goal, assuming that the downward trend continues for these players.

 

But the David Price point is a good one: his inclusion reduced the quality of prospects that the Red Sox could expect for Betts.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[mvp 78]

Verdugo was somewhat damaged goods due to a rather unsavory off-field incident. He apparently has been a model citizen in Boston, if a tad disappointing at the plate.

 

No, he wasn't. That was a media lead story after the trade.

[mvp 78]

It was indeed Graterol, but then the Sox rejected his medicals. It's just hard to believe that with all the Dodgers' pitching prospects, they had to get a third team involved for Bloom to get an arm.

 

Looks like the Dodgers only wanted to give up Maeda in the trade? Can't speak to their inner workings.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with 5GoldGlove--a quality pitching prospect would have been nice, but a better return overall would have been the goal, assuming that the downward trend continues for these players.

 

But the David Price point is a good one: his inclusion reduced the quality of prospects that the Red Sox could expect for Betts.

 

Verdugo and Downs were a pretty good get for one year of Mookie making $27 million.

[notin]

No, he wasn't. That was a media lead story after the trade.

 

The media and jad

[redsoxrules]

First full season in the books. 4.2 WAR. He's already lost a step. 10 SB, caught 5 times. These are suppose to his prime years. If he can't do much better than this next year the Sox definitely made the right move. Already having hip and back problems. Renfroe produced a 2.5 WAR for practically nothing in terms of salary. He's turning 30 next year. I've been saying all along that the legs are the first to go and it looks like it's already starting. A lot of his game was based on his legs. This contract won't age well

[jad]

Let's just hope we're not having the same condescending conversation about Devers in five years.

[Bellhorn04]

Mike Trout missed all but 36 games of the 2021 season because of a right calf strain.

 

You could make an argument that it's 100% irrational to give any player a deal this long.

 

Even if the player's skills hold up, the injury demon is always there waiting.

[mvp 78]

Mike Trout missed all but 36 games of the 2021 season because of a right calf strain.

 

You could make an argument that it's 100% irrational to give any player a deal this long.

 

Even if the player's skills hold up, the injury demon is always there waiting.

 

Trout was having a tremendous season before that.

 

190 WRC+, 2.3 fWAR, 1090 OPS

 

And he's still only 29 somehow. Missing out on about 200 games of his prime will be interesting for his career numbers.

[Bellhorn04]

Trout was having a tremendous season before that.

 

190 WRC+, 2.3 fWAR, 1090 OPS

 

And he's still only 29 somehow. Missing out on about 200 games of his prime will be interesting for his career numbers.

 

What scares me a little is that "calf strains" can be this serious...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

First full season in the books. 4.2 WAR. He's already lost a step. 10 SB, caught 5 times. These are suppose to his prime years. If he can't do much better than this next year the Sox definitely made the right move. Already having hip and back problems. Renfroe produced a 2.5 WAR for practically nothing in terms of salary. He's turning 30 next year. I've been saying all along that the legs are the first to go and it looks like it's already starting. A lot of his game was based on his legs. This contract won't age well

 

I'd still take an average of 4 WAR per year over the next decade. That would give Mookie a career WAR of 90; the 27 right fielders in the Hall of Fame average 72.1. The only guys over 100 WAR were Ruth, Aaron, Mel Ott and Frank Robinson.

[mvp 78]

What scares me a little is that "calf strains" can be this serious...

 

He could go from "best player of my lifetime" to "remember a guy" status really quick. All those people spending $500 on an ungraded Trout 2011 rookie might be regretting their purchase in a few years.

[jad]

He could go from "best player of my lifetime" to "remember a guy" status really quick. All those people spending $500 on an ungraded Trout 2011 rookie might be regretting their purchase in a few years.

 

Anyone who spends $500 on sports gear or memorabilia should feel regret!

[mvp 78]

Anyone who spends $500 on sports gear or memorabilia should feel regret!

 

How about $8,600 for a card that was printed 10 years ago?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384421041381?hash=item59814794e5:g:GIwAAOSwl4dhVeF5

[Bellhorn04]

I'd still take an average of 4 WAR per year over the next decade. That would give Mookie a career WAR of 90; the 27 right fielders in the Hall of Fame average 72.1. The only guys over 100 WAR were Ruth, Aaron, Mel Ott and Frank Robinson.

 

Sure. But another decade is a long time to stay on the field producing.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sure. But another decade is a long time to stay on the field producing.

 

Though we know most big spenders are banking (literally) on what happens in the first six or seven years.