Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[redsoxrules]

Anyone else surprised that after more than 25% of the season, Mookie is hitting .259 with 5 hrs & 16 RBI? Gotta be the back still bothering him.

 

Nope not really.

People are too stuck on his 2018 mvp year. Think that's the norm from him which is far from it

[Bellhorn04]

Nope not really.

People are too stuck on his 2018 mvp year. Think that's the norm from him which is far from it

 

His norm is an .891 OPS with elite defense and base running.

[redsoxrules]

His norm is an .891 OPS with elite defense and base running.

 

And people wanted to pay him over 350 MIL for that? This elite defense and base running will soon be not so elite. He's about to hit 30 so the speed will soon lose a step and once that goes he will be no longer elite. He already barely steals any bases anymore.

[redsoxrules]

31 SB in his Las 242 games. That's supposed to be Elite base running?

[Bellhorn04]

The one thing I wondered about Mookie was whether his conventional offensive numbers would hold up, especially moving to a less friendly park. The jury is out on that.

[Bellhorn04]

31 SB in his Las 242 games. That's supposed to be Elite base running?

 

Steals are overrated. Ability to take the extra base, and making consistently good decisions are probably more important.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And people wanted to pay him over 350 MIL for that? This elite defense and base running will soon be not so elite. He's about to hit 30 so the speed will soon lose a step and once that goes he will be no longer elite. He already barely steals any bases anymore.

 

People did pay him that -- a salary at the top of his industry, for a top of an industry player.

 

Speier article on Dombrowski today says Dombro may have kept Mookie around longer than his bosses wanted, reportedly telling John Henry, "They'll burn my house down if we trade Mookie Betts."

 

But if you re-watch the movie Moneyball, the scene where Henry tries to sign Billy Beane as GM really says it all. In the script, the Henry character salivates at how Beane could build a winner in small-market Oakland with meager funds. Of course, Henry's impatience eventually brought Dombro on board, until the owner once again sought Moneyball machinations (and the ways of the Rays).

[Bellhorn04]

But if you re-watch the movie Moneyball, the scene where Henry tries to sign Billy Beane as GM really says it all. In the script, the Henry character salivates at how Beane could build a winner in small-market Oakland with meager funds. Of course, Henry's impatience eventually brought Dombro on board, until the owner once again sought Moneyball machinations (and the ways of the Rays).

 

In spite of all that the Red Sox have never had a low payroll under Henry. He knows that's part of the deal. He's a pretty smart dude.

[redsoxrules]

People did pay him that -- a salary at the top of his industry, for a top of an industry player.

 

Speier article on Dombrowski today says Dombro may have kept Mookie around longer than his bosses wanted, reportedly telling John Henry, "They'll burn my house down if we trade Mookie Betts."

 

But if you re-watch the movie Moneyball, the scene where Henry tries to sign Billy Beane as GM really says it all. In the script, the Henry character salivates at how Beane could build a winner in small-market Oakland with meager funds. Of course, Henry's impatience eventually brought Dombro on board, until the owner once again sought Moneyball machinations (and the ways of the Rays).

 

Just because the Dodgers paid them that money doesn't mean the Sox should have.

We should have went Lindor and paid him all that money too since the Mets did. I seriously cannot wait in a another 3-4 year when people realize how bad this deal was so we can stop talking about this

[moonslav59]

His norm is an .891 OPS with elite defense and base running.

 

Which is not all that far off from 2018.

 

Plus, I would not count a player's first year or two towards his "norm." His last 4 years in Boston was .917. (27 SB per 650.)

[redsoxrules]

Which is not all that far off from 2018.

 

Plus, I would not count a player's first year or two towards his "norm." His last 4 years in Boston was .917. (27 SB per 650.)

 

I would also not count his MVP season as a norm. So what's his career avg now?

[Bellhorn04]

I would also not count his MVP season as a norm. So what's his career avg now?

 

Slash 299/373/519 OPS 891

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Just because the Dodgers paid them that money doesn't mean the Sox should have.

We should have went Lindor and paid him all that money too since the Mets did. I seriously cannot wait in a another 3-4 year when people realize how bad this deal was so we can stop talking about this

 

People will always talk about Mookie because he's going to the Hall of Fame. And they'll always be talk about the trade because it's a big deal -- and a rarity -- when a big market club trades a homegrown Hall of Famer in his prime.

[moonslav59]

People will always talk about Mookie because he's going to the Hall of Fame. And they'll always be talk about the trade because it's a big deal -- and a rarity -- when a big market club trades a homegrown Hall of Famer in his prime.

 

True nuff.

 

As long as we get something good from the return, it will be easier to handle.

[redsoxrules]

People will always talk about Mookie because he's going to the Hall of Fame. And they'll always be talk about the trade because it's a big deal -- and a rarity -- when a big market club trades a homegrown Hall of Famer in his prime.

 

Woah, pump the breaks there. He's not a hall of famer yet. He still has lot more to do.

 

You don't get into the hall of fame playing 8 years in the majors.

 

I always thought Nomar should of been in the hall of fame and he wasn't even close. His career slash is close to what Betts is right now. Except Nomar has 600 more games played and 700 more hits.

 

Betts has to play another solid 5-6 years before we can assume this

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Woah, pump the breaks there. He's not a hall of famer yet. He still has lot more to do.

 

You don't get into the hall of fame playing 8 years in the majors.

 

I always thought Nomar should of been in the hall of fame and he wasn't even close. His career slash is close to what Betts is right now. Except Nomar has 600 more games played and 700 more hits.

 

Betts has to play another solid 5-6 years before we can assume this

 

In just his Boston years -- through age 26 -- Mookie already had more career WAR than Harold Baines.

[notin]

In just his Boston years -- through age 26 -- Mookie already had more career WAR than Harold Baines.

 

And my grandmother is closer to Baines in fWAR than Baines is to Mike Trout. Baines might not be the best reference point...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And my grandmother is closer to Baines in fWAR than Baines is to Mike Trout. Baines might not be the best reference point...

 

He is... immortal.

 

We're just immoral.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And my grandmother is closer to Baines in fWAR than Baines is to Mike Trout. Baines might not be the best reference point...

 

Jim Rice career bWAR: 47.7. Mookie's current bWAR: 47.3. And Betts is only 28...

 

Now Betts' fans may call both great hitters, but note that Mookie is also a Gold Glover and elite baserunner. Here's an interesting comp on baseballreference: the most similar batter for each at age 26 is Duke Snider, Hall of Famer.

[mvp 78]

Jim Rice career bWAR: 47.7. Mookie's current bWAR: 47.3. And Betts is only 28...

 

Now Betts' fans may call both great hitters, but note that Mookie is also a Gold Glover and elite baserunner. Here's an interesting comp on baseballreference: the most similar batter for each at age 26 is Duke Snider, Hall of Famer.

 

Mookie Betts is better than Jim Rice and I'm a HUUUUUGE Jim Rice fan.

[notin]

Jim Rice career bWAR: 47.7. Mookie's current bWAR: 47.3. And Betts is only 28...

 

Now Betts' fans may call both great hitters, but note that Mookie is also a Gold Glover and elite baserunner. Here's an interesting comp on baseballreference: the most similar batter for each at age 26 is Duke Snider, Hall of Famer.

 

THe bottom line i - if Betts rtired today, would he gt into Cooperstown? I tend to agree with redsoxrules that he wouldn't. No player has gotten into the Hall of Fame at that age except Ross Youngs, and that was because he died at 27.

 

Now if you believe Betts is on track for Cooperstown, a strong argument to support it exists. But then he would not be the first to be on track for Cooperstown and still not make it...

[notin]

Jim Rice career bWAR: 47.7. Mookie's current bWAR: 47.3. And Betts is only 28...

 

Now Betts' fans may call both great hitters, but note that Mookie is also a Gold Glover and elite baserunner. Here's an interesting comp on baseballreference: the most similar batter for each at age 26 is Duke Snider, Hall of Famer.

 

Also wrth noting, Betts 40.2 fWAR through age 27 is less than the career fWAR at age 27 of non-Hall of Famers Andruw Jones and Sherry Magee and just ahead of non-Hall of Famers Cesar Cedeno, Jim Fregosi, and Vada Pinson, and in the neighborhood of Goose Goslin and Ron Santo, both of whom took forever to get into the Hall...

[mvp 78]

THe bottom line i - if Betts rtired today, would he gt into Cooperstown? I tend to agree with redsoxrules that he wouldn't. No player has gotten into the Hall of Fame at that age except Ross Youngs, and that was because he died at 27.

 

Now if you believe Betts is on track for Cooperstown, a strong argument to support it exists. But then he would not be the first to be on track for Cooperstown and still not make it...

 

2X WS champ, MVP winner and retiring by 30 with that WAR. He gets in IMO.

[notin]

2X WS champ, MVP winner and retiring by 30 with that WAR. He gets in IMO.

 

But if Mookie held a press conference TODAY stating he is giving up baseball immediately and forever in order to dedicate more time to his bowling, does he get into Cooperstown once eligible?

[mvp 78]

But if Mookie held a press conference TODAY stating he is giving up baseball immediately and forever in order to dedicate more time to his bowling, does he get into Cooperstown once eligible?

 

If he did it for bowling? IDK.

 

If he had an injury or wanted to do Peace Corps? Probably, yeah.

[notin]

If he did it for bowling? IDK.

 

If he had an injury or wanted to do Peace Corps? Probably, yeah.

 

What if he quit baseball to spend more time with Yoko Ono?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But if Mookie held a press conference TODAY stating he is giving up baseball immediately and forever in order to dedicate more time to his bowling, does he get into Cooperstown once eligible?

 

First, he'd have to play two more years to reach the required minimum of 10 MLB seasons to be eligible...

 

In that regard, maybe Kirby Puckett is a better comp than Rice; Puckett only played 12 years and finished with 51.2 bWAR, so Betts would have to average 1 WAR for the next four years to pass him. Kirby and Mookie each have three Top 3 MVP years, two World Series rings, one batting title, multiple Gold Gloves. Puckett led the league in hits four times, Betts led the bigs in runs scored twice. Kirby has an RBI crown, Mookie led in slugging, and tied a record with six career three-HR games (at age 27).

[mvp 78]

What if he quit baseball to spend more time with Yoko Ono?

 

Cancelled.

[mvp 78]

First, he'd have to play two more years to reach the required minimum of 10 MLB seasons to be eligible...

 

In that regard, maybe Kirby Puckett is a better comp than Rice; Puckett only played 12 years and finished with 51.2 bWAR, so Betts would have to average 1 WAR for the next four years to pass him. Kirby and Mookie each have three Top 3 MVP years, two World Series rings, one batting title, multiple Gold Gloves. Puckett led the league in hits four times, Betts led the bigs in runs scored twice. Kirby has an RBI crown, Mookie led in slugging, and tied a record with six career three-HR games (at age 27).

 

What a terrible rule. I didn't know about the 10 year thing. WTH?

[Larry Cook]

Verdugo’s stays this year are a little better then Bett’s stats, but for a fraction of the cost!