A Realistic View at 2020: Part II

[moonslav59]

I remember looking at Adrian Beltre’s actual numbers IN Boston.

 

HRs: 28. Doubles: 49. Left Fielders Sidelined with Broken Ribs: 2. OPS: .919

 

The Ellsbury collision was 100% on Jacoby. He never even opened his mouth to call Beltre off.

[moonslav59]

all things being equal...we had a parade with JDM. we did not have a parade with AGon.

 

We did with Julio Lugo, too.

 

(As softy used to say, "He was our wire to wire SS...")

[Bellhorn04]

The Ellsbury collision was 100% on Jacoby. He never even opened his mouth to call Beltre off.

 

It's absolutely hilarious that Sox fans still debate something like this. We're nuts.

[mvp 78]

It's absolutely hilarious that Sox fans still debate something like this. We're nuts.

 

It's not a debate anymore. Ells was made of glass. Beltre is one of the greatest 3b's of all time. Ells should have gotten out of the way or called Beltre off.

[mvp 78]

I cut him a bit of slack for being a surprisingly good right fielder once you factor in that his foot speed was matched by a glacier.

 

But he was a letdown. And really not sure why the Sox went after him besides the “Big Name Star Power”. The Sox had an excellent 1b in Youkilis and an excellent 3b in Beltre. They should have paid Adrian B. and gone with the status quo...

 

Why would you have to cut him slack? His highest career fWAR was in 2011 when playing with the Sox.

 

Makes no sense.

[mvp 78]

With the unfair advantage of complete 100% hindsight, which was the better set of (non-)moves? Get Adrian Gonzalez and draft Jackie Bradley? Or re-sign Adrian Beltre and keep Anthony Rizzo?

 

Beltre and Rizzo for sure. It's not really close either.

[notin]

Why would you have to cut him slack? His highest career fWAR was in 2011 when playing with the Sox.

 

Makes no sense.

 

He was an overall letdown.

 

Kimbrel has his highest career fWAR in Boston, too. He sandwiched it in between his two career worst fWAR values (at the time). Was he a letdown?

 

Gonzalez played less time in Boston, but his career was nearly equally imbalanced. He followed up his career high fWAR in Boston with a career low OPS+ the following season...

[Bellhorn04]

Beltre and Rizzo for sure. It's not really close either.

 

Yeah, that's an easy call.

 

Although, who knows if we would have won it all in 2013 and 2018 in that Wayback Machine scenario?

[mvp 78]

He was an overall letdown.

 

Kimbrel has his highest career fWAR in Boston, too. He sandwiched it in between his two career worst fWAR values (at the time). Was he a letdown?

 

Gonzalez played less time in Boston, but his career was nearly equally imbalanced. He followed up his career high fWAR in Boston with a career low OPS+ the following season...

 

I just don't see how everyone is calling him a let down when his best season ever was in a Sox uni and was traded the following season. Makes no sense.

 

Instead of saying "he was a let down for not hitting 50 hr's," maybe fans should start saying "I'm a dum dum who shouldn't be projecting stuff like that."

[mvp 78]

Yeah, that's an easy call.

 

Although, who knows if we would have won it all in 2013 and 2018 in that Wayback Machine scenario?

 

We have no idea what the butterfly effect does, but the roster would have been stronger with Beltre and Rizzo. Rizzo was good enough to start in 2013. The Sox would not have needed to sign Napoli. Maybe that money is used elsewhere?

[moonslav59]

I just don't see how everyone is calling him a let down when his best season ever was in a Sox uni and was traded the following season. Makes no sense.

 

Instead of saying "he was a let down for not hitting 50 hr's," maybe fans should start saying "I'm a dum dum who shouldn't be projecting stuff like that."

 

1. I said he was a little bit of a letdown, and I prefaced it with the context of me thinking he'd hit 50 HRs. Of course, I realize my expectations were too high, but that doesn't make me a dum dum. "Let down" does not mean he sucked.

2. He was here for more than just 1 year, and I don't think I'm a dum dum for not basing anything on just one season. Here are the number for his last 2 years with SD and his next 2 years in Boston:

.930 (1374 PAs) SD

.883 (1399 PAs) BOS & LAD

3. He was 29 his first year in BOS- that's super prime. It's not unreasonable to expect improvement.

[kenmeister]

It's not a debate anymore. Ells was made of glass. Beltre is one of the greatest 3b's of all time. Ells should have gotten out of the way or called Beltre off.

 

I still think the Sox went after the wrong Adrian. Beltre proved he could play here at a high level, yet they didn't make an attempt to keep him, and instead traded Rizzo to get Gonzalez. Man, Beltre should have been our 3rd baseman for the last decade.

[mvp 78]

1. I said he was a little bit of a letdown, and I prefaced it with the context of me thinking he'd hit 50 HRs. Of course, I realize my expectations were too high, but that doesn't make me a dum dum. "Let down" does not mean he sucked.

2. He was here for more than just 1 year, and I don't think I'm a dum dum for not basing anything on just one season. Here are the number for his last 2 years with SD and his next 2 years in Boston:

.930 (1374 PAs) SD

.883 (1399 PAs) BOS & LAD

3. He was 29 his first year in BOS- that's super prime. It's not unreasonable to expect improvement.

 

I'm not calling out you specifically. I'm calling out all the Sox fans that were for some unknown reason frustrated with AGon's performance in 2011 WHEN HE HAD HIS GREATEST FWAR SEASON THAT YEAR.

 

How many players improve from age 28 to age 29? Not many. I think most improvement stops around 25-27. Weird that true prime is 29 - 31 and then everyone falls off a cliff and isn't needed anymore?

[mvp 78]

I still think the Sox went after the wrong Adrian. Beltre proved he could play here at a high level, yet they didn't make an attempt to keep him, and instead traded Rizzo to get Gonzalez. Man, Beltre should have been our 3rd baseman for the last decade.

 

And they could have used Casey Kelly and Eric Patterson in another trade to bring back talent. It wasn't just Rizzo that the Sox traded.

[Slasher9]

i'm glad we never re-signed Beltre. not our type of player. he probably believes COVID 19 is real and that the earth is round......

[mvp 78]

i'm glad we never re-signed Beltre. not our type of player. he probably believes COVID 19 is real and that the earth is round......

 

I'm just glad they never signed Aubrey Huff.

[Bellhorn04]

We have no idea what the butterfly effect does, but the roster would have been stronger with Beltre and Rizzo. Rizzo was good enough to start in 2013. The Sox would not have needed to sign Napoli. Maybe that money is used elsewhere?

 

You don't mess with the butterfly, though. I know this especially after reading Stephen King's 11-22-63...

[notin]

I'm just glad they never signed Aubrey Huff.

 

A while back, I was on LinkedIn, and Aubrey Huff’s name popped up as a potential connection. No idea why. So I sent it out, figuring “Oh, what the heck.” And forgot about it.

 

Several months later, he accepted it. I went to his profile and he only had like 35 connections, and about half of them were former Major Leaguers including Dustan Mohr, Nate Shietholtz and Greg Blosser. I was impressed. “Aubrey Huff personally accepted my invite!!”

 

I realized he was using LinkedIn to plug his new blog “Huff Off the Cuff.” I read a few entries. While he had some bouts of humility, overall it was largely boasting interspersed with radical right political views and blatant discriminations.

 

I disconnected from him shortly after...

[mvp 78]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/red-sox-still-open-to-adding-rotation-depth.html

 

Sale’s situation doesn’t really alter the team’s interest in potentially adding a new arm from outside the organization, as chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom told reporters (including the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier and MLB.com’s Ian Browne) that the Sox were exploring such an acquisition even before Sale’s recovery from pneumonia delayed his preseason preparations. “We would always want to accumulate as much depth as we can. So I don’t think that changes,” Bloom said.

 

The Red Sox could look into trade possibilities, perhaps picking up a starter who has become a spare part on another team that already has an excess of pitching candidates. Such surplus arms could also become available closer to the end of Spring Training as teams start to finalize their rosters, not to mention the free agent hurlers who are currently on the market. While these pitchers might not necessarily be picky in choosing a new team this deep in the offseason, the Sox can offer extra opportunity to available starters, since a solid short-term performance could lead to a proper rotation spot even after Sale returns.

 

Sale, Eduardo Rodriguez, Nathan Eovaldi, and Martin Perez were Boston’s top four projected starters, and with Sale now out for at least the first couple of weeks of the regular season, the battle for the fifth starter’s job now expands to a battle for two spots. (Assuming a “starter” is required at all, since interim manager Ron Roenicke raised the possibility that the Red Sox could use an opener for one or both of the rotation spots.) Hector Velazquez, Ryan Weber, Matt Hall, Chris Mazza, Phillips Valdez, and Brian Johnson are among the names under consideration, and it’s possible that the Red Sox could stick with one or more of these options rather than an outside acquisition.

 

“We have a lot of guys here we’re interested in learning more about, that we’re excited about, and we brought them all in for a reason,” Bloom said. “We have some guys within the organization to help them get better. This is good to see them put those adjustments into play and learn more about them.”

[mvp 78]

Nothing really new in the above post and I've said that the Sox are likely to grab a player or two at the end of ST when teams try to sneak players through waivers.

 

I just believe the Padres deal is dead since it's been reported that the Padres don't want to move their SPers.

[kenmeister]

i'm glad we never re-signed Beltre. not our type of player. he probably believes COVID 19 is real and that the earth is round......

 

I don't know anything about his personal beliefs, but I know not everybody can shine in the Boston spotlight (see Renteria, Edgar). When someone does, I prefer keeping them. Beltre was a great fit for the Sox on the field. I was also sad to see Victor Martinez go during that same time period. Of course now I can mourn the loss of Betts, who shined about as bright as someone can here. But I'm also on record as saying if he wants $40 million per year it would be best to move on from him.

[mvp 78]

You don't mess with the butterfly, though. I know this especially after reading Stephen King's 11-22-63...

 

The book should have just been titled: 13 years until the greatest TalkSox poster arises. That's a far more important day IMO.

[mvp 78]

I don't know anything about his personal beliefs, but I know not everybody can shine in the Boston spotlight (see Renteria, Edgar). When someone does, I prefer keeping them. Beltre was a great fit for the Sox on the field. I was also sad to see Victor Martinez go during that same time period. Of course now I can mourn the loss of Betts, who shined about as bright as someone can here. But I'm also on record as saying if he wants $40 million per year it would be best to move on from him.

 

Edgar Renteria has a 2005 season that mirrors his 2004 season prior to signing with the Sox.

 

Red Sox fans: surprised Pikachu face

[Bellhorn04]

Edgar Renteria has a 2005 season that mirrors his 2004 season prior to signing with the Sox.

 

Red Sox fans: surprised Pikachu face

 

I think what killed Renteria with Sox fans was the errors.

[mvp 78]

I think what killed Renteria with Sox fans was the errors.

 

If that was the case WHY DID THEY LOVE NOMAR SO MUCH? https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/garcino01.shtml

 

Maybe they just liked that Nomar blamed all his errors on the groundskeeper?

[Bellhorn04]

If that was the case WHY DID THEY LOVE NOMAR SO MUCH? https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/garcino01.shtml

 

Maybe they just liked that Nomar blamed all his errors on the groundskeeper?

 

Probably because Nomar more than compensated with the stick...before 2004, that is.

[mvp 78]

@JonHeyman

Collin McHugh has recently been given the go-ahead to begin throwing after a tenex procedure alleviated an elbow concern. Could be a nice late-spring sign. Thanks to his versatility, nearly every team has checked in.

[Bellhorn04]

Another thing with Renteria was that Cabrera played so well for us in '04 and people were puzzled that Theo didn't just re-sign him. Later came the stories about OCab's off-field antics.

[mvp 78]

Probably because Nomar more than compensated with the stick...before 2004, that is.

 

But wouldn't they have noticed how horrible his glove was? I mean, your main assertion is that Sox fans hated Renteria because of his glove and it had nothing to do with his batting.

[mvp 78]

Another thing with Renteria was that Cabrera played so well for us in '04 and people were puzzled that Theo didn't just re-sign him. Later came the stories about OCab's off-field antics.

 

OCab, the guy who had 8 errors in only 50 games in 2004? That butcher? There's no way the Sox fans would have liked him! More like OBad.