Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[mvp 78]

What is it?

 

A penalty.

[mvp 78]

Which is why I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a work stoppage at/during the next CBA.

 

Not sure why there'd be a work stoppage on the behalf of ownership when they basically wrote the last CBA. If anything, the players should strike to stop penalizing teams that want to spend money and force a salary floor on teams that don't want to spend money.

[Hitch]

There is a lot of truth to what you say like it or not. It is just a business I guess. It sucks too but oh well. JH is gambling on the fact that most fans of our cherished Red Sox will accept this premise as well. Maybe this trade will enhance ticket sales - likely not. or maybe the fan base will buy into the fact that overall this trade will be good for the franchise. We shall see. My only question - Where the hell is the pitcher that we so desperately need?

By the way if I appear queasy over this it is only because of the jersey that my 8 year old grandson wears on his back that has 0 meaning for him now. I actually find it obnoxious that there so many adults here who pretend to know anything about a billionaire's budget. Lots of rich folk I guess.

 

Yeah I hear you, and I really understand why you feel the game you love is slipping away from you. For what it's worth, I think the ticket prices are a way too high, but I think JH knows this is an unpopular move but that he thinks it is one that will be beneficial to the Red Sox in the coming years. They can't run organisations like we see the game as fans. They need a long term look too, to see that the team is in a healthy position. It's in a healthier position now for the future, even if this season isn't.

 

In the last year or so people posed the question in here - would you rather win a WS and then finish last a couple of years, to win it again the season after. A lot of people (and forgive me if I'm wrong but I think I remember you being one of them) said 'no they'd rather contend every year, because that's where the fun is'. I think this season might be a tough one (although I wouldn't be surprised to see us do well) but after that I think we are looking good to retool and compete for a long time, after the mistakes of some of the contracts given out the last few years.

 

But yeah, we need a pitcher. I'm hoping we flip Wong with Chavis for one personally, but we will see.

 

I don't really get why you keep bringing up this 'rich mans budget' thing. The team is run to a budget, not JH's personal wealth.

[notin]

Yeah I hear you, and I really understand why you feel the game you love is slipping away from you. For what it's worth, I think the ticket prices are a way too high, but I think JH knows this is an unpopular move but that he thinks it is one that will be beneficial to the Red Sox in the coming years. They can't run organisations like we see the game as fans. They need a long term look too, to see that the team is in a healthy position. It's in a healthier position now for the future, even if this season isn't.

 

In the last year or so people posed the question in here - would you rather win a WS and then finish last a couple of years, to win it again the season after. A lot of people (and forgive me if I'm wrong but I think I remember you being one of them) said 'no they'd rather contend every year, because that's where the fun is'. I think this season might be a tough one (although I wouldn't be surprised to see us do well) but after that I think we are looking good to retool and compete for a long time, after the mistakes of some of the contracts given out the last few years.

 

But yeah, we need a pitcher. I'm hoping we flip Wong with Chavis for one personally, but we will see.

 

I don't really get why you keep bringing up this 'rich mans budget' thing. The team is run to a budget, not JH's personal wealth.

 

Definitely my thoughts on the subject...

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

Yeah I hear you, and I really understand why you feel the game you love is slipping away from you. For what it's worth, I think the ticket prices are a way too high, but I think JH knows this is an unpopular move but that he thinks it is one that will be beneficial to the Red Sox in the coming years. They can't run organisations like we see the game as fans. They need a long term look too, to see that the team is in a healthy position. It's in a healthier position now for the future, even if this season isn't.

 

In the last year or so people posed the question in here - would you rather win a WS and then finish last a couple of years, to win it again the season after. A lot of people (and forgive me if I'm wrong but I think I remember you being one of them) said 'no they'd rather contend every year, because that's where the fun is'. I think this season might be a tough one (although I wouldn't be surprised to see us do well) but after that I think we are looking good to retool and compete for a long time, after the mistakes of some of the contracts given out the last few years.

 

But yeah, we need a pitcher. I'm hoping we flip Wong with Chavis for one personally, but we will see.

 

I don't really get why you keep bringing up this 'rich mans budget' thing. The team is run to a budget, not JH's personal wealth.

 

Our catcher depth is really bad. I'm thinking we trade Chavis or Dalbec (I choose Chavis) with a one and done player like JBJ or Workman for an innings eater who may be a slight salary dump-type guy.

[jung]

Which is why I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a work stoppage at/during the next CBA.

 

Yup, MLB is still not smart enough to figure out how often they have literally come very close to killing the golden goose and I suspect a next work stoppage of any length at all will take them very close to killing it or will in fact kill it.

[notin]

Our catcher depth is really bad. I'm thinking we trade Chavis or Dalbec (I choose Chavis) with a one and done player like JBJ or Workman for an innings eater who may be a slight salary dump-type guy.

 

I think the Sox could deal both Chavis and Dalbec, but I don't think it's very likely...

[Slasher9]

social media update

RedSox InstaGram account posted a thank you to Mookie and a separate post thank you to Price.

Mookie:

RedSox: Thanks for everything, Mookie (heart emoji).

Mookie responded: thank you for everything red sox nation (heart emoji)

 

Price:

RedSox: Forever a World Series Champ. thank you, DP.

Price has not posted a reply

[mvp 78]

I think the Sox could deal both Chavis and Dalbec, but I don't think it's very likely...

 

I think you have to keep one of them to help manage payroll.

[mvp 78]

social media update

RedSox InstaGram account posted a thank you to Mookie and a separate post thank you to Price.

Mookie:

RedSox: Thanks for everything, Mookie (heart emoji).

Mookie responded: thank you for everything red sox nation (heart emoji)

 

Price:

RedSox: Forever a World Series Champ. thank you, DP.

Price has not posted a reply

 

I don't think Price enjoyed playing in Boston and that's ok.

[notin]

I think you have to keep one of them to help manage payroll.

 

It would definitely help, although arguably if dealing both gets you a cheaper SP, then it accomplishes the same mission another way.

 

The Sox absolutely do need some minimum wage contributors. But Chavis has no real position and Dalbec is blocked by Devers at his best position, and moving him to 1B just holds the fort for Casas, although Casas is a minimum of 2 years away even if he just flt out destroys high A and AA pitching this season...

[Slasher9]

although Casas is a minimum of 2 years away even if he just flt out destroys high A and AA pitching this season...

unless JH does a panic move with him rushing him up like he did with Devers.....

[jung]

Geezuz Bloom:

"I am Chaim Bloom. I am your new Chief Baseball Officer [whatever the f*** that is]. If you think I look like a robot its because I am a robot."

 

I don't know how much the Sox should toss this guy out in front of the cameras and the mics.

[mvp 78]

It would definitely help, although arguably if dealing both gets you a cheaper SP, then it accomplishes the same mission another way.

 

The Sox absolutely do need some minimum wage contributors. But Chavis has no real position and Dalbec is blocked by Devers at his best position, and moving him to 1B just holds the fort for Casas, although Casas is a minimum of 2 years away even if he just flt out destroys high A and AA pitching this season...

 

Dalbec is close enough to get playing time. Casas may never get there. No reason to just move Dalbec because there is another prospect at the same position. At worst, you give Dalbec some run in BOS and trade him when Casas is ready.

[sk7326]

I don't know, but we do have a GM with a completely different M.O. than DD, and I'm guessing/hoping we go back to spending large after we reset- just not stupidly and not all the eggs in 1-2 baskets, unless it's Betts.

 

Ultimately is has to do with ownership's MO - and ownership has not shown much appetite for "sticking things out".

[Fan_since_Boggs]

This is what it comes down to. I get the kids have their heroes and losing Mookie hurts (although I find it queasy to be polite, to see how some adults are acting over it all), but does anyone think Mookie really cares that much about some brokenhearted kid in New England?

 

After the 2017 season when he only hit .264 and had the worst year of his young career, the Sox offered him 8 years at $200. He was only 25. He said no. He's only ever wanted to test free agency, and he's testing it to get the most money possible.

 

All this 'baseball isn't a business to me' stuff is all well and good, but the man you are crying to be signed up no matter the cost, sees it as that - a business. And he's going to the team that shells out, no matter how many men/children are devastated by his decision. His loyalty is to his next contract.

 

So let's not make it out like we traded away a guy desperate to stay and sign with the team he loves. He's going to follow the money.

 

f*** Mookie Betts. The guy is a greedy imbecile. The Red Sox tried to sign him long term (more than once), and were willing to make him a rich man in the process, but that wasn't enough for Betts.

 

On the topic of free agency and greed in the sport, yeah it has been this way for a long time. Interestingly, small market teams continue to have a hard time competing. We sometimes overlook this, but nothing has changed. The fact that the Yankees could sign CC Sabathia, AJ Burnettt, and Texieria matters. The fact that a small market team couldn't sign Sabathia, Burnett, and Texieria matters. The fact that the Yankees could sign G.Cole matters. The fact that small market teams couldn't sign G.Cole matters. Look at the W.S. Champions from the mid-1990s onwards, how many of those championship were won by small market teams? Small market teams are at a competitive disadvantage in terms of winning championships. True, the Marlins of 2003 put it together, the Royals won a W.S. but most championships go to teams that spend.

 

When a small market team does win a championship, it is the exception, not the rule.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Fan_since_Boggs

[sk7326]

Geezuz Bloom:

"I am Chaim Bloom. I am your new Chief Baseball Officer [whatever the f*** that is]. If you think I look like a robot its because I am a robot."

 

I don't know how much the Sox should toss this guy out in front of the cameras and the mics.

 

Bloom had an impossible job and made a fairly defensible baseball trade out of a terrible situation. I am optimistic he will do good work unless the owner changes his mind again (which given the past is entirely possible).

[mvp 78]

Geezuz Bloom:

"I am Chaim Bloom. I am your new Chief Baseball Officer [whatever the f*** that is]. If you think I look like a robot its because I am a robot."

 

I don't know how much the Sox should toss this guy out in front of the cameras and the mics.

 

As long as the players on the field are human, every other part of the game can be computer generated. Robot manager, fine. It's basically the direction they are headed. Robot GM, fine. Who cares? Just run everything through the trade simulator and be done with it.

[sk7326]

f*** Mookie Betts. The guy is a greedy imbecile. The Red Sox tried to sign him long term (more than once), and were willing to make him a rich man in the process, but that wasn't enough for Betts.

 

On the topic of free agency and greed in the sport, yeah it has been this way for a long time now. Interestingly, small market teams continue to have a hard time competing. We sometimes overlook this, but nothing has changed. The fact that the Yankees could sign CC Sabathia, AJ Burnettt, and Texieria matters. The fact that a small market team couldn't sign Sabathia, Burnett, and Texieria matters. The fact that the Yankees could sign G.Cole matters. The fact that small market teams couldn't G.Cole matters. Look at the W.S. Champions from 1990 onwards, how many of those championship were won by small market teams? Small market teams are at a competitive disadvantage in terms of winning championships. True, the Marlins of 2003 put it together, the Royals won a W.S. but most championships go to teams that spend.

 

It's not couldn't ... it's WOULDN'T - the industry is drowning in money. Remember the teams you weep for are getting over $50M before a ticket is sold. The problem is that the current system does not incentivize/require spending money on players.

[mvp 78]

f*** Mookie Betts. The guy is a greedy imbecile. The Red Sox tried to sign him long term (more than once), and were willing to make him a rich man in the process, but that wasn't enough for Betts.

 

Counterpoint, Betts is so f***ing good that he's deserved every penny.

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

Ultimately is has to do with ownership's MO - and ownership has not shown much appetite for "sticking things out".

 

They have shown a willingness to change course, suddenly, but it's been a success, overall.

 

Henry has chosen to spend large and then reset or spend less over and over. I'm not sure why so many expected him to change than M.O. and become a spendaholic every year.

[Slasher9]

Counterpoint, Betts is so f***ing good that he's deserved every penny.

 

[jung]

It's not couldn't ... it's WOULDN'T - the industry is drowning in money. Remember the teams you weep for are getting over $50M before a ticket is sold. The problem is that the current system does not incentivize/require spending money on players.

 

In fact it punishes teams for it creating an environment where SOME teams will venture into CBT land for SOME period of time. In reality you can feel the ulcers growing in the pit of ownership's stomachs the longer they stay over the tax limit.

 

I will repeat it is not even an issue of whether the owner can afford it or not. Its that hole in the pit of his stomach that has got the words PENALTY and TAX written all over it. It is just impossible for me to envision a businessman that will just take that for very long.

 

Now we can argue about whether or not MLB instituted the CBT to protect the owners from themselves regardless of the dynamics added to the enterprise or if they actually calculated how the dynamic would effect actual standings and actual year over year results. Myself I cannot answer that question. Frankly, if anything MLB administration is worse than franchise ownership, quirkier and more misguided than franchise ownership. So no telling what their thinking was regarding the CBT or if they were even thinking at all beyond protecting ownership from themselves.

[jung]

As for the Sox themselves, they have already proven that they could finish last 3 out of 4 years and not skip a beat as a business.

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

As for the Sox themselves, they have already proven that they could finish last 3 out of 4 years and not skip a beat as a business.

 

Yes, and does the team we have now look any worse than 2012, 2014 or 2015? (Except for the rotation?.)

[mvp 78]

Yes, and does the team we have now look any worse than 2012, 2014 or 2015? (Except for the rotation?.)

 

2012 was coming off a very strong 2011 season. 2014 was right after a 2013 WS win. 2015 was the year of splurging on stupid contracts. This is a horse of a different color.

[notin]

Counterpoint, Betts is so f***ing good that he's deserved every penny.

 

Counter-counterpoint

 

If Betts is still hellbent on free agency, that is still on the table...

[mvp 78]

Counter-counterpoint

 

If Betts is still hellbent on free agency, that is still on the table...

 

And the Sox should be at the front of the line.

[notin]

And the Sox should be at the front of the line.

 

Myself and Slasher have been thinking/hoping that was the plan all along...

[cp176]

Yeah I hear you, and I really understand why you feel the game you love is slipping away from you. For what it's worth, I think the ticket prices are a way too high, but I think JH knows this is an unpopular move but that he thinks it is one that will be beneficial to the Red Sox in the coming years. They can't run organisations like we see the game as fans. They need a long term look too, to see that the team is in a healthy position. It's in a healthier position now for the future, even if this season isn't.

 

In the last year or so people posed the question in here - would you rather win a WS and then finish last a couple of years, to win it again the season after. A lot of people (and forgive me if I'm wrong but I think I remember you being one of them) said 'no they'd rather contend every year, because that's where the fun is'. I think this season might be a tough one (although I wouldn't be surprised to see us do well) but after that I think we are looking good to retool and compete for a long time, after the mistakes of some of the contracts given out the last few years.

 

But yeah, we need a pitcher. I'm hoping we flip Wong with Chavis for one personally, but we will see.

 

I don't really get why you keep bringing up this 'rich mans budget' thing. The team is run to a budget, not JH's personal wealth.

 

This is a really thoughtful response. Thanks for that. I do bring up that "rich man's budget thing" - it is likely that there are some here who know why I do it. Out of respect for the posters here who actually sound as though they are capable of being wrong from time to time, I will stop. Yes, you are correct in saying that I was one of those posters who wants to be competitive year in and year out. It has always been about the hunt for me. I'm a regular season kind of guy. Don't get me wrong - i've enjoyed the championships as much as anyone but i guess it is what happens along the way that has the most meaning for me. I do think that the game I loved and grew up with is slipping away. I can accept that and still be a fan. I just feel sorry for my grandson who loves nothing more than to hit, catch, and throw a ball more than anything else. Thanks again for the response.