Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[mvp 78]

Oh give me a break. You've been attacking him for not spending the money all week. I've lost count of the 'poor billionaires' posts you've made. So despite all this, you don't think he's being cheap by not signing him to the 12 x $420 deal you said we should give him?

 

I'm sorry that it hurts you so much that I talk negatively about Henry. I realize this is personal for you.

 

I think he's being an idiot for not signing him to a deal. Clearly 12/420 was an opening bid. The Sox were at 10/300. I think that if the Sox really wanted to sign Betts, they would have figured out where to meet in the middle.

[notin]

The beef is that they let the best positional player since Yaz walk out that door just to save money. I'll never agree with that logic. I care about the product on the field.

 

On another thread, he was the "best positional player since Williams." Either the he's worse or the goalposts are moving.

 

Also, the Sox farm system has produced a few Hall of Famers since Yastrzemski (Fisk, Rice, Boggs, Bagwell, for example). Betts has HOF potential, but he is not there yet, and if his career ended tomorrow, would be be inducted?

[mvp 78]

On another thread, he was the "best positional player since Williams." Either the he's worse or the goalposts are moving.

 

Also, the Sox farm system has produced a few Hall of Famers since Yastrzemski (Fisk, Rice, Boggs, Bagwell, for example). Betts has HOF potential, but he is not there yet, and if his career ended tomorrow, would be be inducted?

 

I meant Williams. Sorry. Bad posting today.

[mvp 78]

Yes, Betts is better than Rice, Boggs, Bagwell and Fisk IMO.

[notin]

I'm sorry that it hurts you so much that I talk negatively about Henry. I realize this is personal for you.

 

I think he's being an idiot for not signing him to a deal. Clearly 12/420 was an opening bid. The Sox were at 10/300. I think that if the Sox really wanted to sign Betts, they would have figured out where to meet in the middle.

 

Is anyone positive they did not try?

 

No one thought they tried to extend Ellsbury, either. But once Jacoby signed in NY, Pete Abe was all over correcting that misconception...

[notin]

Yes, Betts is better than Rice, Boggs, Bagwell and Fisk IMO.

 

Not what I asked.

 

But it also worth noting, on that list, only Rice played his entire career in Boston...

[mvp 78]

Is anyone positive they did not try?

 

No one thought they tried to extend Ellsbury, either. But once Jacoby signed in NY, Pete Abe was all over correcting that misconception...

 

I believe the Sox ownership are on record as saying "well, we realized that with his counter that he didn't really want to further explore negotiations."

[notin]

I meant Williams. Sorry. Bad posting today.

 

I don't think Yaz is necessarily wrong there. I missed his early career, but the guy was amazing.

 

Also, we all might be sleeping on Tony Conigliaro as the right name to drop in as Betts being the "best player developed by the Sox since..." qualifier...

[notin]

I believe the Sox ownership are on record as saying "well, we realized that with his counter that he didn't really want to further explore negotiations."

 

... which might mean Mookie was not budging.

 

This is a two-sided operation. It's possible the Sox were not as wrong as you think here...

[mvp 78]

I don't think Yaz is necessarily wrong there. I missed his early career, but the guy was amazing.

 

Also, we all might be sleeping on Tony Conigliaro as the right name to drop in as Betts being the "best player developed by the Sox since..." qualifier...

 

Some others would even say that Agganis was one of the greatest players to come through the system. I think it's hard to really judge players that don't have long careers.

[mvp 78]

... which might mean Mookie was not budging.

 

This is a two-sided operation. It's possible the Sox were not as wrong as you think here...

 

It certainly could. I just believe that's probably the case since they were involved with similar f***ery in regards to Lester.

[Bellhorn04]

I believe the Sox ownership are on record as saying "well, we realized that with his counter that he didn't really want to further explore negotiations."

 

No, I don't think so. Do we have anything other than some tweets from Merloni?

[notin]

Some others would even say that Agganis was one of the greatest players to come through the system. I think it's hard to really judge players that don't have long careers.

 

I can see that choice, but if are looking for the most recent, Yaz and Conigliaro came along later.

 

I think Bagwell is the most recent Hall of Famer to come up through the system...

[Bellhorn04]

Here's what I think:

 

If we kept Mookie this year, and got off to a crappy start, there would be a lot of people asking why the hell we didn't get something for him when we had the chance.

[notin]

It certainly could. I just believe that's probably the case since they were involved with similar f***ery in regards to Lester.

 

Except that the lowballing of Lester was criminally below market. I don't think offering Mookie the $200 mill and $300mill offers fall into the same category.

[notin]

Here's what I think:

 

If we kept Mookie this year, and got off to a crappy start, there would be a lot of people asking why the hell we didn't get something for him when we had the chance.

 

Also applies if he got hurt...

[Bellhorn04]

Also applies if he got hurt...

 

Yeah, the only difference is, if he got hurt, people would also be criticizing Mookie for not signing an extension when he had the chance.

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

Except that the lowballing of Lester was criminally below market. I don't think offering Mookie the $200 mill and $300mill offers fall into the same category.

 

Yes, and some context. Not too long before, Pedey signed a "hometown discount" deal, and Lester had expressed a willingness to accept a hometown discount deal.

 

The worst part about the offer was that we did not quickly follow it up with a better offer.

 

Okay, we offer Betts $300M/10, and he says he wants $420M/10. How can it hurt to counteroffer $330/10 or $350/10 and see what he says?

 

Maybe he counters $390/10 or $420/12. Now, we may feel like we can come to an agreement. Now, if we think $330/10 is the most we'll ever pay, then I can see why we could decide to trade him.

[notin]

Yeah, the only difference is, if he got hurt, people would also be criticizing Mookie for not signing an extension when he had the chance.

 

Or, f the Sox had extended him, then the Red Sox would be criticized for extending Mookie and watching him turn into Pedroia 2.0...

[notin]

Yes, and some context. Not too long before, Pedey signed a "hometown discount" deal, and Lester had expressed a willingness to accept a hometown discount deal.

 

The worst part about the offer was that we did not quickly follow it up with a better offer.

 

Okay, we offer Betts $300M/10, and he says he wants $420M/10. How can it hurt to counteroffer $330/10 or $350/10 and see what he says?

 

Maybe he counters $390/10 or $420/12. Now, we may feel like we can come to an agreement. Now, if we think $330/10 is the most we'll ever pay, then I can see why we could decide to trade him.

 

As I am not allowed into that room anymore (long story), I can't say the Red Sox did not make such a counteroffer...

[Elktonnick]

Yeah, the only difference is, if he got hurt, people would also be criticizing Mookie for not signing an extension when he had the chance.

No one hated to see Mookie leave more than me. However, from Mookie's perspective the trade to Los Angeles could be the best thing that ever happened to him. Not only is he an exceptional baseball talent but he also is an exceptionally nice guy with an infectious smile. He could easily take LA by storm. He certainly has the potential to become a super personality that transcends baseball a la what Magic Johnson did with basketball.

I think LA affordsMookie an opportunity that he wouldn't have had in Boston simply because of LA's media culture. Moreover, I also think Mookie is savy enough to understand that.

[SCM33]

Moonslav, my apologies. Can we at least try to get along? We are both Sox fans.

[Jasonbay44]

There are so many idiots online yelling about this right now, mainly because of bad reporting at SB Nation. https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/2/6/21124292/red-sox-dodgers-alex-verdugo-the-unspoken-problem-with-the-mookie-betts-david-price-trade

 

The SB Nation story incorrectly states "Verdugo was reportedly present for both the girl’s beating and for the sexual assault on the girl by Baldwin, and did not intervene. He was named in the police report filed by the survivor." This just isn't true based on the original reporting which the SB Nation steals most of its story from. Verdugo is reported as being their for the girl fight, not for the sexual assault per the original report.

 

This is why the media is dangerous. They falsely report information, that could ruin people’s lives without even double checking or fact checking. The Kobe Bryant death incident comes to mind right away when people tried jumping the gun and originally reported all 4 of his daughters died, than they mentioned Rick Fox as dead, and caused all kinds of panic. Media needs to do better

[notin]

This is why the media is dangerous. They falsely report information, that could ruin people’s lives without even double checking or fact checking. The Kobe Bryant death incident comes to mind right away when people tried jumping the gun and originally reported all 4 of his daughters died, than they mentioned Rick Fox as dead, and caused all kinds of panic. Media needs to do better

 

The problem is the new media model.

 

WAy back when, newspapers fact checked and double checked stories before going to print, which happened at the same time everyday.

 

Now in this era of 24 hour news channels and internet news sights and opinionated bloggers, being "fast and first" and getting the most clicks takes priority over accuracy. After all, the more clicks, the more advertising revenue. And news needs to be released as it happens when it happens.

 

The fact-checked corrections can come out later, in what I call the Microsoft Model, named after the way Microsoft intentionally releases faulty software in order to meet their scheduled date, and then just creates "patches" to fix the product later.

 

The danger in this new Microsoft Model is that in between the original story and the fact-checked version, there are far too many hits on the stories, and far too many eyes that have already been on too many internet discussions and rumors and forums and overall circulation, etc. And not everyone reads or believes the corrections in the wake of all the original versions proliferating around them. It's in this gray area between original version and fact-checked version that a lot of conspiracy theorists live...

[mvp 78]

Or, f the Sox had extended him, then the Red Sox would be criticized for extending Mookie and watching him turn into Pedroia 2.0...

 

Sox are going to be criticized no matter what moves they make.

[notin]

Sox are going to be criticized no matter what moves they make.

 

No truer words have ever been typed on this forum...

[mvp 78]

No truer words have ever been typed on this forum...

 

If they feel that dumping Mookie was the best course of action, they need to make that move regardless of fan backlash. That's why the nonsense about "Sox trying to back out" was fairly disheartening.

[Hitch]

I'm sorry that it hurts you so much that I talk negatively about Henry. I realize this is personal for you.

 

I think he's being an idiot for not signing him to a deal. Clearly 12/420 was an opening bid. The Sox were at 10/300. I think that if the Sox really wanted to sign Betts, they would have figured out where to meet in the middle.

 

Yes, it's really personal for me. *yawn*.

 

Yes, of course, that second sentence is true. And they may still do this in a years time when he finally gets the free agency he cares about so deeply.

 

I hope not, but we'll see.

[Hitch]

Here's what I think:

 

If we kept Mookie this year, and got off to a crappy start, there would be a lot of people asking why the hell we didn't get something for him when we had the chance.

 

Absolutely. And as you've sad before, some of the same people crying about it now would be the first calling it a stupid contract if it went south.

 

The mind of the entitled sports fan, I guess.

[Jasonbay44]

The problem is the new media model.

 

WAy back when, newspapers fact checked and double checked stories before going to print, which happened at the same time everyday.

 

Now in this era of 24 hour news channels and internet news sights and opinionated bloggers, being "fast and first" and getting the most clicks takes priority over accuracy. After all, the more clicks, the more advertising revenue. And news needs to be released as it happens when it happens.

 

The fact-checked corrections can come out later, in what I call the Microsoft Model, named after the way Microsoft intentionally releases faulty software in order to meet their scheduled date, and then just creates "patches" to fix the product later.

 

The danger in this new Microsoft Model is that in between the original story and the fact-checked version, there are far too many hits on the stories, and far too many eyes that have already been on too many internet discussions and rumors and forums and overall circulation, etc. And not everyone reads or believes the corrections in the wake of all the original versions proliferating around them. It's in this gray area between original version and fact-checked version that a lot of conspiracy theorists live...

It’s just absurd how little they care about anything other than being first. There has been multiple celebrity deaths where the family’s found out on social media from TMZ’s twitter account before being informed by law enforcement