will Cora get hit with the Hammer??

[mvp 78]

So who was? LBJ and the mafia? Masons? Keyser Sose?

 

Carlos Beltran.

[jung]

Exactly why do you think Crane knew anything about this?

 

The guy, like most owners, is a billionaire businessman who made the overwhelming bulk of his money in non-baseball ventures that he presumably still spends a fair amount of time on.

 

Plenty of owners buy teams for the simpler reason - because they can. It’s a lofty stays symbol. Henry seems like the rarity in his involvement in day-to-day operations...

 

So there is no upper management in Houston between the GM and Ownership? Lets see, as far as I know they have a President and and Exec VP. Connecting a dot between the GM and Ownership would call into question whether this goes all the way to Ownership and Manfred is not going to let that happen. He won't let it happen in Boston either.

 

All of these "investigations" will fall at least one dot on the Org chart short of Ownership so Manfred can maintain a wall and isolate his precious owners whether they are culpable or not.

[Elktonnick]

Yes, I mentioned that in earlier posts. Even a minor second offense could bring stiff punishment to set an example. I get that, but I still think the degree of the second offense (that must be proven) plays into the type of punishment we will receive.

 

No. It’s absolutely not the same as throwing a game. If you throw a game, barring severe incompetence or an opposing like-minded manager, you lose 100% of the time. Is that true for electronic sign stealing? Teams have been “legally” stealing signs for over a century and it’s NEVER resulted in that level of perfection. In fact, teams have been illegally stealing signs using this same equipment for DECADES and it’s never impacted the game like throwing a game does. And it’s not closee.

 

What’s next? Should we have a poll to determine if Cora is closer to John Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer?

 

First of all Rose was never accused of throwing a game. He was accused of betting on his own team. Secondly stealing signs clearly affects the outcome. Using technology illegally is not a minor infraction. How long it has been done is immaterial. It is illegal and is being enforced. Get over your mournimg over a cheat being caught.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Did he say that?

 

Yup, except he mistakenly said "Joey" instead of "Alex" -- which some could say questions the reliability of his words, though others could infer that this crap has been going on since Cora's older brother played...

[jung]

Yup, except he mistakenly said "Joey" instead of "Alex" -- which some could say questions the reliability of his words, though others could infer that this crap has been going on since Cora's older brother played...

 

We are missing the point in this particular argument. Could the Astros have been Organically stealing signs from the bench and signaling by beating on a trash can as early as 2014? Sure they could. Organically stealing signs IS NOT EVEN CHEATING.

 

The entire issue as has been pointed out several times is the use of real time, in game video and electronics as part of a sign stealing scheme. THAT is what makes it cheating.

[mvp 78]

First of all Rose was never accused of throwing a game. He was accused of betting on his own team. Secondly stealing signs clearly affects the outcome. Using technology illegally is not a minor infraction. How long it has been done is immaterial. It is illegal and is being enforced. Get over your mournimg over a cheat being caught.

 

Gambling is illegal at Bushwood and I never slice.

[notin]

So there is no upper management in Houston between the GM and Ownership? Lets see, as far as I know they have a President and and Exec VP. Connecting a dot between the GM and Ownership would call into question whether this goes all the way to Ownership and Manfred is not going to let that happen. He won't let it happen in Boston either.

 

All of these "investigations" will fall at least one dot on the Org chart short of Ownership so Manfred can maintain a wall and isolate his precious owners whether they are culpable or not.

 

Ok. Why do you think the President or Executive VP are involved or know anything about this?

 

It is funny how you try to explain that you were not referring to ownership and bring about these middle layers, but then end on how this is all designed to protect owners. Do you think Crane, Henry and any other involved owner knew or not? And why do you think that? Or is there some proof I’m missing?

Edited January 16, 2020 by notin

[notin]

First of all Rose was never accused of throwing a game. He was accused of betting on his own team. Secondly stealing signs clearly affects the outcome. Using technology illegally is not a minor infraction. How long it has been done is immaterial. It is illegal and is being enforced. Get over your mournimg over a cheat being caught.

 

I haven’t supported Cora, except in the face of some overly dramatic criticisms. I think he got what he deserved and will probably never do much better than The Sugar Land Skeeters, and he has no one to blame but himself.

 

Grady Little, I felt bad for. Cora? Not so much. But that doesn’t mean I think he should be drawn and quartered...

[notin]

Gambling is illegal at Bushwood and I never slice.

 

Judge Smales

[Elktonnick]

I haven’t supported Cora, except in the face of some overly dramatic criticisms. I think he got what he deserved and will probably never do much better than The Sugar Land Skeeters, and he has no one to blame but himself.

 

Grady Little, I felt bad for. Cora? Not so much. But that doesn’t mean I think he should be drawn and quartered...

 

Even I wouldn't go that far. However, I do think he should be banned for at least two years. Unlike suspension however, I think he should be required to apply for removal from the banned or restricted list.

[mvp 78]

Even I wouldn't go that far. However, I do think he should be banned for at least two years. Unlike suspension however, I think he should be required to apply for removal from the banned or restricted list.

 

My guess is that's about what will happen.

[Slasher9]

i think he should be drawn and quartered for #restgate

[Bellhorn04]

We are missing the point in this particular argument. Could the Astros have been Organically stealing signs from the bench and signaling by beating on a trash can as early as 2014?

 

2014 makes sense, because that's the year the new replay rules and the replay rooms were instituted.

[a700hitter]

i think he should be drawn and quartered for #restgate

I was done with him after that, so no great loss imo.

 

I was very open about cleaning out him and his coaches as part of the house cleaning.

[Bellhorn04]

i think he should be drawn and quartered for #restgate

 

And I suppose Tito deserved the same for the 2011 collapse and chicken and beer...

[mvp 78]

And I suppose Tito deserved the same for the 2011 collapse and chicken and beer...

 

No, he deserves it for Hazel Mae and las drogas.

[a700hitter]

And I suppose Tito deserved the same for the 2011 collapse and chicken and beer...

Tito missed the playoffs by one game. It was unfortunate that his prima dona players cost him his job. If a manager loses control of the clubhouse, he has to go. There were too many arrogant pricks on that team who were selfish prima donas. I loved having those guys when they were serious about competing. Beckett and Lackey were intense competitors, but when they wanted to be dogs they became cancers.

[Slasher9]

And I suppose Tito deserved the same for the 2011 collapse and chicken and beer...

 

I dont believe that.

Tito should still be our manager.

[Slasher9]

No, he deserves it for Hazel Mae and las drogas.

 

hazel mae can get all the hugs.

[Elktonnick]

I dont believe that.

Tito should still be our manager.

 

I was very negative on Thto at the time. However in retrospect, he is one of best managers in the game.

[notin]

Even I wouldn't go that far. However, I do think he should be banned for at least two years. Unlike suspension however, I think he should be required to apply for removal from the banned or restricted list.

 

A suspension is imminent.

 

But this incident will carry enough tarnish to prevent anyone from ever hiring him to manage again. And very likely, to coach again. He simply doesn’t bring enough to the dugout to overshadow all the questions that will accompany any subsequent hiring, even as a bullpen coach...

[Elktonnick]

A suspension is imminent.

 

But this incident will carry enough tarnish to prevent anyone from ever hiring him to manage again. And very likely, to coach again. He simply doesn’t bring enough to the dugout to overshadow all the questions that will accompany any subsequent hiring, even as a bullpen coach...

I certainly agree. I think a banning would likely prevent him doing games on ESPN or MLB. I believe MLB has final approval on the announcers and analysts

[a700hitter]

Leo Durocher got suspended for gambling if I remember correctly and he came back to manage.

[Elktonnick]

Leo Durocher got suspended for gambling if I remember correctly and he came back to manage.

 

Not for gambling per but for associating with known gamblers.

[a700hitter]

Not for gambling per but for associating with known gamblers.

Yep, my recollection was faulty. Was Alex Karras suspended from football at the same time?

[Slasher9]

Jordan

[a700hitter]

Jordan

Special case. He was bigger than the game. They never even suspended him, did they?

[notin]

Hal Chase did receive the lifetime suspension for gambling on baseball. And then of course, there were the Black Sox...

[notin]

I was very negative on Thto at the time. However in retrospect, he is one of best managers in the game.

 

Why so negative on Tito? Hated all that winning?

[Slasher9]

Special case. He was bigger than the game. They never even suspended him, did they?

 

he had that double secret suspension. that's when he spent a couple seasons in the whitesox org.