will Cora get hit with the Hammer??

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why would Manfred want it to go away? This could be his signature campaign - he could go down in MLB history as the man who cleaned up illegal sign stealing. It's much better than his previous trademark - the man who gave us juiced baseballs...

 

It was very convenient for the Astros to throw an ex-employee under the bus, but notice how none of the Red Sox have expressed any outrage or feelings of betrayal for their ex-skipper? On the contrary, there have been outpourings of love from players to owners. All vituperations have come from media or forum posters. Of course, many team members or personnel are also involved, but could it also be because everyone knows the hypocrite MLB has overreacted in its grandstand play in setting examples of two franchises when so many more are obviously guilty?

 

The MLB has its super villain in Cora and now would love to close the case. Manfred has made his stand and I would guess would desperately like to keep New York out of this. With this bad publicity for an industry already in trouble, it's even more imperative that the Yankees get back to the World Series. The MLB has been doing all it can for NY since the schedule-makers let them play Baltimore and Detroit, the two worst teams in the AL, for the first nine games of 2019, while at the same time sending Boston to the West Coast for the first 11. Now they have paved the way to an easier path to the postseason by emasculating two major rivals, while at the same time implying the pair may have robbed the Big Apple (and Hollywood) of deserved hardware... a stance which conveniently shields the "victims" from their own complicity.

 

The pressure is really on the Yankees to win now. If only they could get by the Twins...

[jacksonianmarch]

Funny thing... this same poster is insisting that Sox posters stick to the facts regarding the Yankees' potential involvement in any cheating but he's speculating all over the place about what the Sox "maybe" did.

 

I can spell (or is it smell) "double standard".

 

Your manager already got fired. We’re beyond smoke here. The fire is a raging

[notin]

Plus, it'll be easier to scapegoat one team than have to admit how rampant the problem actually is.

 

Same logic when a last place team fires the manager...

[Elktonnick]

No. And it’s not even close. Throwing a baseball game for gambling gives the game a predetermined outcome. Stealing signs doesn’t. It’s the baseball equivalent of counting cards at a blackjack table. Cora cheated and was fired for it, and his next managerial gig will probably be along the lines of Long Island Ducks. But no need to be so overly dramatic about it. ...

 

Bull s*** It is exactly the same as throwing a game. You illegally received information from an outside source. Sign stealing when done within the game without electronic means has always been legal. He concocted an elaborate scheme to steal signs after he specifically knew it was illegal. His despicable act caused his boss to get fired. A boss he clearly knew did not approve of the scheme but who did not have the moral courage to stop it. Pete Rose never hurt anybody but himself. Cora was a one man wrecking crew. If I were AJ Hinch I would be thinking with friends like Cora who needs enemies.

Ban him!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Plus, it'll be easier to scapegoat one team than have to admit how rampant the problem actually is.

 

This is what I've been trying to say in different ways about the hypocrite MLB:

 

Not only has sign-stealing been part of the game forever, but so has the way teams have policed themselves in-game. If a pitcher or catcher detect they're being detected, they often counter with a fastball aimed at the hitter's head. It may seem insane and I'm not condoning it, but just look at the disparity in consequences...

 

Throwing a missile 100 mph at somebody's head on the street would be considered much more of a criminal offense than peaking at fingers, and yet, it's only punishable in baseball by five-game suspensions. But if you use video, you're gone for a year or more (but only managers and GMs).

[Bellhorn04]

Bull s*** It is exactly the same as throwing a game. You illegally received information from an outside source. Sign stealing when done within the game without electronic means has always been legal. He concocted an elaborate scheme to steal signs after he specifically knew it was illegal. His despicable act caused his boss to get fired. A boss he clearly knew did not approve of the scheme but who did not have the moral courage to stop it. Pete Rose never hurt anybody but himself. Cora was a one man wrecking crew. If I were AJ Hinch I would be thinking with friends like Cora who needs enemies

 

One man wrecking crew - now that's bull s***. Why are you exonerating everyone else who was in on it?

[mvp 78]

This is what I've been trying to say in different ways about the hypocrite MLB:

 

Not only has sign-stealing been part of the game forever, but so has the way teams have policed themselves in-game. If a pitcher or catcher detect they're being detected, they often counter with a fastball aimed at the hitter's head. It may seem insane and I'm not condoning it, but just look at the disparity in consequences...

 

Throwing a missile 100 mph at somebody's head on the street would be considered much more of a criminal offense than peaking at fingers, and yet, it's only punishable in baseball by five-game suspensions. But if you use video, you're gone for a year or more (but only managers and GMs).

 

Unwritten rules of baseball are dumb. MLB always pushes their grand history and traditions, but at some point they really need to modernize the game. I'd say get rid of all the hand signals and just give every player earpieces. It works in the NFL.

[mvp 78]

One man wrecking crew - now that's bull s***. Why are you exonerating everyone else who was in on it?

 

Everyone else was just a mindless drone! They were under Cora's spell!

[Elktonnick]

Why not ban all the rest of the Houston and Boston personnel who participated in the schemes too, then?

 

Players were given immunity in order to get evidence against the ringleaders. Baseball makes the distinction between the leaders and the followers. Nevertheless it is specious to say that because the players weren't sanctioned mitigates the fact that Cora is a cheater and deserves what he gets which in my mind is an outright ban.

[Bellhorn04]

Players were given immunity in order to get evidence against the ringleaders. Baseball makes the distinction between the leaders and the followers. Nevertheless it is specious to say that because the players weren't sanctioned mitigates the fact that Cora is a cheater and deserves what he gets which in my mind is an outright ban.

 

I didn't say that. You're not even bothering to read, just mindlessly jumping to conclusions.

[mvp 78]

Players were given immunity in order to get evidence against the ringleaders. Baseball makes the distinction between the leaders and the followers. Nevertheless it is specious to say that because the players weren't sanctioned mitigates the fact that Cora is a cheater and deserves what he gets which in my mind is an outright ban.

 

Except that Cora was the leader in the Astros issue. Hinch was taken down for following along and not saying anything or stopping it.

[Elktonnick]

One man wrecking crew - now that's bull s***. Why are you exonerating everyone else who was in on it?

 

Cora devised and implemented the scheme he made changes to adjust to changing circumstances. he got his boss fired. I am not exonerating anyone. I am saying that all the evidence suggests that Cora was the mastermind. He is a cheater who is going to take down two teams. Whether he had accomplices only points out how destructive he was. Ban the SOB.

[Elktonnick]

Except that Cora was the leader in the Astros issue. Hinch was taken down for following along and not saying anything or stopping it.

 

That is exactly why what Cora did was so despicable he got his boss fired because he was too weak to stop the SOB.

Any team who ever hires Cora to do anything would be playing Russian roulette. I would trust him to be even a member of the grounds crew.

[Slasher9]

the little fish are always set free to catch the bigger fish....

[Elktonnick]

I didn't say that. You're not even bothering to read, just mindlessly jumping to conclusions.

 

You're projecting again. I never jumped to conclusions. Cora is a cheater is hardly jumping to conclusions.

[Slasher9]

wait...does anyone that posts on this website have any doubt that Alex Cora was a cheater?

[notin]

Bull s*** It is exactly the same as throwing a game. You illegally received information from an outside source. Sign stealing when done within the game without electronic means has always been legal. He concocted an elaborate scheme to steal signs after he specifically knew it was illegal. His despicable act caused his boss to get fired. A boss he clearly knew did not approve of the scheme but who did not have the moral courage to stop it. Pete Rose never hurt anybody but himself. Cora was a one man wrecking crew. If I were AJ Hinch I would be thinking with friends like Cora who needs enemies.

Ban him!

 

 

No. It’s absolutely not the same as throwing a game. If you throw a game, barring severe incompetence or an opposing like-minded manager, you lose 100% of the time. Is that true for electronic sign stealing? Teams have been “legally” stealing signs for over a century and it’s NEVER resulted in that level of perfection. In fact, teams have been illegally stealing signs using this same equipment for DECADES and it’s never impacted the game like throwing a game does. And it’s not closee.

 

What’s next? Should we have a poll to determine if Cora is closer to John Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer?

[mvp 78]

Cora devised and implemented the scheme he made changes to adjust to changing circumstances. he got his boss fired. I am not exonerating anyone. I am saying that all the evidence suggests that Cora was the mastermind. He is a cheater who is going to take down two teams. Whether he had accomplices only points out how destructive he was. Ban the SOB.

 

But why did MLB suspend the followers in the Astros scheme? You said they only ever punish the leaders.

[mvp 78]

there's always a bigger fish....

 

Yep.

[mvp 78]

What’s next? Should we have a poll to determine if Cora is closer to John Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer?

 

Ted Bundy

[notin]

Ted Bundy

 

Now you’re just being silly

[jung]

But why did MLB suspend the followers in the Astros scheme? You said they only ever punish the leaders.

 

Who do you mean by "followers", Hinch and the GM? Well for one thing Hinch is the Manager. So it appears that Hinch had no control over his bench coach or only made a token effort to control him. They nailed Hinch and the GM as a means to support their white wash of Ownership and upper management above the GM and Ownership promptly responded by firing Hinch and the GM, a neat little pick and roll play by Manfred and Houston Ownership.

[mvp 78]

Now you’re just being silly

 

Silly would be comparing him to Chikatilo.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Except that Cora was the leader in the Astros issue. Hinch was taken down for following along and not saying anything or stopping it.

 

But only if the world conveniently ignores the words of Logan Morrison, an actual MLB player, who said the Astros have been banging trash cans since 2014 "before Cora even got there"...

[Elktonnick]

Yes, I mentioned that in earlier posts. Even a minor second offense could bring stiff punishment to set an example. I get that, but I still think the degree of the second offense (that must be proven) plays into the type of punishment we will receive.

 

But why did MLB suspend the followers in the Astros scheme? You said they only ever punish the leaders.

Hunch and the GM were fired because they were supposed to be in charge but obviously weren't

[mvp 78]

Who do you mean by "followers", Hinch and the GM? Well for one thing Hinch is the Manager. So it appears that Hinch had no control over his bench coach or only made a token effort to control him. They nailed Hinch and the GM as a means to support their white wash of Ownership and upper management above the GM and Ownership promptly responded by firing Hinch and the GM, a neat little pick and roll play by Manfred and Houston Ownership.

 

Hinch was a follower of the scheme. He wasn't the leader. He didn't have any control over it. The belief is that Alex Cora initiated and ran the entire operation. Hinch, even though he had the title of manager, was really not in charge of the operation and was just on the outside following along.

[mvp 78]

But only if the world conveniently ignores the words of Logan Morrison, an actual MLB player, who said the Astros have been banging trash cans since 2014 "before Cora even got there"...

 

Did he say that?

[jung]

Hunch and the GM were fired because they were supposed to be in charge but obviously weren't

 

A neat question that. So who in Houston was Cora working for if he was not working for Hinch or the GM? Who was covering for Cora in Houston?

 

Again, IMO there is no way to get around this actually going past Hinch and the GM. But MLB is not going to allow Ownership to be considered as being culpable in this mess.

Edited January 16, 2020 by jung

[notin]

Who do you mean by "followers", Hinch and the GM? Well for one thing Hinch is the Manager. So it appears that Hinch had no control over his bench coach or only made a token effort to control him. They nailed Hinch and the GM as a means to support their white wash of Ownership upper management above the GM and Ownership promptly responded by firing Hinch and the GM.

 

Exactly why do you think Crane knew anything about this?

 

The guy, like most owners, is a billionaire businessman who made the overwhelming bulk of his money in non-baseball ventures that he presumably still spends a fair amount of time on.

 

Plenty of owners buy teams for the simpler reason - because they can. It’s a lofty stays symbol. Henry seems like the rarity in his involvement in day-to-day operations...

[notin]

Hunch and the GM were fired because they were supposed to be in charge but obviously weren't

 

So who was? LBJ and the mafia? Masons? Keyser Sose?

 

Or was it - and it scares me to say it - Heat Miser?