will Cora get hit with the Hammer??

[jacksonianmarch]

Remember who Manfred works for then you can see why this is coming out this way

[mvp 78]

Now I am really smelling a rat in this. The Sox just spent 40 minutes in a press conference saying nothing beyond "we parted company with Alex entirely over his involvement in Houston".

 

Ah-huh. Watch, we are going to see another report that completely absolves Ownership for anything to do with 2018 if not makes an effort to white wash 2018. The Houston report completely absolved Houston ownership.

 

So Red Sox catch no flak for hiring Cora in the first place again following the "pure as the driven slush" profile of MLB ownership. They don't even make a single solitary effort to offer that it might just have been a mistake to hire the guy.

 

I stated as much yesterday.

[jung]

I stated as much yesterday.

 

I was so steamed by that press conference today that I didn't even think about yesterday's posts.

 

What are we doing? You give professional hitters a system that offers them real time data as to FB vs offspeed/breaking pitch using real time in game video and you would do just as well to stop playing the games! Its batting practice at that point. You have corrupted the very core of the game. And we are waaaay past the Sgt Schultz routine from Ownership both in Houston and in Boston. More BS.

 

And what does Sox Ownership waste 40 minutes doing? "Ah nothing to see here......YET. Reserve judgement please. 4 grand salami's in April 2018 alone and a stratospheric increase in offensive output in 2018....well, lucky us." Absolute BS.

 

We should put the Boston Report right next to the Houston Report, side by side as that will tell us a good deal.

[Elktonnick]

I was so steamed by that press conference today that I didn't even think about yesterday's posts.

 

What are we doing? You give professional hitters a system that offers them real time data as to FB vs offspeed/breaking pitch using real time in game video and you would do just as well to stop playing the games! Its batting practice at that point. You have corrupted the very core of the game. And we are waaaay past the Sgt Schultz routine from Ownership both in Houston and in Boston. More BS.

 

And what does Sox Ownership waste 40 minutes doing? "Ah nothing to see here......YET. Reserve judgement please. 4 grand salami's in April 2018 alone and a stratospheric increase in offensive output in 2018....well, lucky us." Absolute BS.

 

We should put the Boston Report right next to the Houston Report, side by side as that will tell us a good deal.

 

I certainly agree. I was listening to the press conference with my wife and we looked at each other amazed about how the Red Sox FO could use so many words to say absolutely nothing,

It also made me wonder how high in the Red Sox organization this scandal reaches. It strains credibility to believe that sign stealing in Houston never came up in the interviewing process when Cora was hired especially in light of the Apple watch business.

[Bellhorn04]

It also made me wonder how high in the Red Sox organization this scandal reaches. It strains credibility to believe that sign stealing in Houston never came up in the interviewing process when Cora was hired especially in light of the Apple watch business.

 

It didn't come up because Fiers didn't blow the whistle on the Astros until 2 years after the Sox hired Cora.

[Elktonnick]

It didn't come up because Fiers didn't blow the whistle on the Astros until 2 years after the Sox hired Cora.

 

I phrased it poorly. The Apple watch fiasco certainly should have come up. The Sox brass should have raised the generic subject of using technology illegally to gain a tactical advantage especially since they were on notice from mlb.

 

Moreover you will have a hard time convincing me that DD and the Red Sox brass weren't generally aware of Cora's reputation at stealing signs. The best that can be said there was a failure at the top to do their due diligence when hiring this guy.

[moonslav59]

I phrased it poorly. The Apple watch fiasco certainly should have come up. The Sox brass should have raised the generic subject of using technology illegally to gain a tactical advantage especially since they were on notice from mlb.

 

Moreover you will have a hard time convincing me that DD and the Red Sox brass weren't generally aware of Cora's reputation at stealing signs. The best that can be said there was a failure at the top to do their due diligence when hiring this guy.

 

We also got caught cheating with IFA bonus money not too long ago under Ben.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It didn't come up because Fiers didn't blow the whistle on the Astros until 2 years after the Sox hired Cora.

 

...and two years after he pitched for the Astros.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I phrased it poorly. The Apple watch fiasco certainly should have come up. The Sox brass should have raised the generic subject of using technology illegally to gain a tactical advantage especially since they were on notice from mlb.

 

Moreover you will have a hard time convincing me that DD and the Red Sox brass weren't generally aware of Cora's reputation at stealing signs. The best that can be said there was a failure at the top to do their due diligence when hiring this guy.

 

Cora is the patsy in all this. He will resurface in a few years, hired by some network as an analyst like ARoid (or maybe by a security company who hires rehabilitated thieves to test out their systems).

 

I think a publisher somewhere could make a lot of money getting Cora's side of the story, as long as he names names -- imagine the Astros and Red Sox players and management that are involved, not to mention all the people who taught Cora the inside game of MLB baseball on the teams he played for, including the Dodgers, Guardians, Mets, Rangers and Nationals.

 

But hopefully AC is a stand-up guy and not a rat.

[Elktonnick]

Cora is the patsy in all this. He will resurface in a few years, hired by some network as an analyst like ARoid (or maybe by a security company who hires rehabilitated thieves to test out their systems).

 

I think a publisher somewhere could make a lot of money getting Cora's side of the story, as long as he names names -- imagine the Astros and Red Sox players and management that are involved, not to mention all the people who taught Cora the inside game of MLB baseball on the teams he played for, including the Dodgers, Guardians, Mets, Rangers and Nationals.

 

But hopefully AC is a stand-up guy and not a rat.

 

Cora is a patsy takes denial to a whole new level. Cora isn't a victim, he is a perp. Cora is a cheat. He will always being branded as a cheat. He is no role model for the young. Moreover he did major damage to his team the repercussions for which will be felt for years. He blatantly disregarded the warnings Boston received after Applewatchgate. Your phrase that you hope Cora is a standup guy and doesn't rat anyone out is right out of Goodfellas. If I were Cora I certainly wouldn't take that as a compliment.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Elktonnick

[notin]

...and two years after he pitched for the Astros.

 

 

He did let the Tigers and A’s know. He just didn’t go public...

[notin]

We also got caught cheating with IFA bonus money not too long ago under Ben.

 

And the Yankees were reprimanded for misuse of the clubhouse phone in 2017. This stuff is ubiquitous...

[jung]

And the Yankees were reprimanded for misuse of the clubhouse phone in 2017. This stuff is ubiquitous...

 

No doubt pinstripes are going to catch some of this flak.

 

The interesting common thread IMO will be the degree to which MLB declares Ownership clean in each case. Already happened in Houston, IMO about to happen in Boston and will likely happen in each and every case. Fall guys up to a layer of organizational management that connects the dots to Ownership and suddenly.....CRICKETS. At least that is my guess.

[Swiharts Ghost]

I wonder if dreamboat Is talking to Manfred about the Yankees as we speak ? If there is dirt he will turn book that .

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Cora is a patsy takes denial to a whole new level. Cora isn't a victim, he is a perp. Cora is a cheat. He will always being branded as a cheat. He is no role model for the young. Moreover he did major damage to his team the repercussions for which will be felt for years. He blatantly disregarded the warnings Boston received after Applewatchgate. Your phrase that you hope Cora is a standup guy and doesn't rat anyone out is right out of Goodfellas. If I were Cora I certainly wouldn't take that as a compliment.

 

I'm not in denial and neither is Cora. He admitted what he did and apologized to the Red Sox. You've voiced your opinions of Cora over and over, as have I about sign-stealing as an element of baseball that is as old as the game, and the hypocrisy of the MLB declaring that sign-stealing is suddenly wrong... but not with human eyes looking at the opposition, only with human eyes looking at the opposition on a screen.

 

Technology advanced sign-stealing to a new level, but there was nothing newly nefarious about its intentions until the commissioner banned tech. Cora was one of many who still used it, and now he is one of the few to be punished. But sign-stealing will always be part of the game of baseball, and anyone who doesn't like that or doesn't want to expose their children to it will always have the option of not watching. Btw, ex-big leaguer and manager Phil Garner used "rat" when referring to Mike Fiers.

[Elktonnick]

I'm not in denial and neither is Cora. He admitted what he did and apologized to the Red Sox. You've voiced your opinions of Cora over and over, as have I about sign-stealing as an element of baseball that is as old as the game, and the hypocrisy of the MLB declaring that sign-stealing is suddenly wrong... but not with human eyes looking at the opposition, only with human eyes looking at the opposition on a screen.

 

Technology advanced sign-stealing to a new level, but there was nothing newly nefarious about its intentions until the commissioner banned tech. Cora was one of many who still used it, and now he is one of the few to be punished. But sign-stealing will always be part of the game of baseball, and anyone who doesn't like that or doesn't want to expose their children to it will always have the option of not watching. Btw, ex-big leaguer and manager Phil Garner used "rat" when referring to Mike Fiers.

 

Cora used technology that was specifically prohibited. He deliberately endangered his employer's long term interests after being warned.. The Red Sox treated him better than he deserved. I am not an attorney but I am willing to bet that the Red Sox could sue the SOB for damages which of course they won't. He is a cheater and deserves a significant period of exile from the game if not permanently. If it were up to me he would get nothing less than what Pete Rose got.

[jung]

No doubt pinstripes are going to catch some of this flak.

 

The interesting common thread IMO will be the degree to which MLB declares Ownership clean in each case. Already happened in Houston, IMO about to happen in Boston and will likely happen in each and every case. Fall guys up to a layer of organizational management that connects the dots to Ownership and suddenly.....CRICKETS. At least that is my guess.

 

I would also not be surprised to see a complete white wash in Boston. The Sox are one of the premier franchises in baseball and we are really hurting in very particular ways. We have no farm. Our young promising manager is gone and losing 4 or more top draft picks would be a devastating blow. We might even say screw it and just spend to try to win it again in the short run because we are going to lose star players. If we lose draft picks to the level of what Houston got, we could well be screwed for a decade.

 

I await the league Boston Report with anticipation.

 

Next managerial pick, very important. it will have to be a guy willing to accept where the franchise is today.....meaning even with the sludge we call MLB today, winning might be an issue for awhile. Truth is, the Sox don't have to win more than a championship every four or five years to be in the pink financially. They have proven that. So it will be interesting to see how ownership plays this.

Edited January 16, 2020 by jung

[jad]

Cora used technology that was specifically prohibited. He deliberately endangered his employer's long term interests after being warned.. The Red Sox treated him better than he deserved. I am not an attorney but I am willing to bet that the Red Sox could sue the SOB for damages which of course they won't. He is a cheater and deserves a significant period of exile from the game if not permanently. If it were up to me he would get nothing less than what Pete Rose got.

 

Oh for God's sake stop. Cora has the respect of his players, is extremely well-spoken, has done a lot for the game and for social causes as well. Pete Rose is a cheap-shot artist who deliberately tried to injure other players, a pathological liar who cannot even form a coherent sentence. (That said, put the scum-bag in the Hall of Fame--one thing he could do was hit a baseball.)

[jung]

Oh for God's sake stop. Cora has the respect of his players, is extremely well-spoken, has done a lot for the game and for social causes as well. Pete Rose is a cheap-shot artist who deliberately tried to injure other players, a pathological liar who cannot even form a coherent sentence. (That said, put the scum-bag in the Hall of Fame--one thing he could do was hit a baseball.)

 

It is very very difficult for me to hold even Alex up as evil incarnate in this mess. Hard for me to hold the players up as evil incarnate as well.

 

Just watch the way this plays out and how deftly the league insulates Ownership from any responsibility whatsoever when in fact no matter who was doing what, Ownership is ultimately responsible for the actions of their employees.

[a700hitter]

I'm not in denial and neither is Cora. He admitted what he did and apologized to the Red Sox. You've voiced your opinions of Cora over and over, as have I about sign-stealing as an element of baseball that is as old as the game, and the hypocrisy of the MLB declaring that sign-stealing is suddenly wrong... but not with human eyes looking at the opposition, only with human eyes looking at the opposition on a screen.

 

Technology advanced sign-stealing to a new level, but there was nothing newly nefarious about its intentions until the commissioner banned tech. Cora was one of many who still used it, and now he is one of the few to be punished. But sign-stealing will always be part of the game of baseball, and anyone who doesn't like that or doesn't want to expose their children to it will always have the option of not watching. Btw, ex-big leaguer and manager Phil Garner used "rat" when referring to Mike Fiers.

Ban the arrogant cheating bum for life. Send a message.

[Elktonnick]

Oh for God's sake stop. Cora has the respect of his players, is extremely well-spoken, has done a lot for the game and for social causes as well. Pete Rose is a cheap-shot artist who deliberately tried to injure other players, a pathological liar who cannot even form a coherent sentence. (That said, put the scum-bag in the Hall of Fame--one thing he could do was hit a baseball.)

 

Okay he is a well spoken cheater. So what he still is a cheater who deserves the same treatment as Rose.

[jacksonianmarch]

My bet is Henry met with Cora to quell the chances that anyone else is implicated. I’m pretty sure Henry already knows the intentions of the commish and he likely has some sort of side deal with Cora to take the blame and stay quiet. If this was condoned beyond DD or anyone in upper management knew of it, the punishment could severely curtail business ops beyond baseball. Henry has owned plenty of companies. He’s clearly had some employees, even higher level, who’ve done some bad stuff. He knows how to handle it and spin it to keep himself smelling like a rose.

 

That’s what happened in Houston. The GM takes the fall as he’s the head of baseball ops, although he “never knew”. That keeps the stink off of him so the Astros can bring him back in a year or another team can bring him back after his suspension. Hinch “didn’t agree” with it and even smashed the monitor a couple times, but he goes for not ending it entirely. He at least gets some dirt on him, but the way it’s spun at least allows him back eventually. But they lambaste two guys who aren’t in the organization anymore. That comes off as fishy. Maybe Cora was the architect and nobody else in baseball ops was involved. Or maybe this was a huge conspiracy that went to the top and the savvy businessmen knew how to come off shiny and they shaped the narrative to crush the ones who are gone? I’m betting the same thing happens in boston

[notin]

Okay he is a well spoken cheater. So what he still is a cheater who deserves the same treatment as Rose.

 

 

Electronic sign stealing isn’t and shouldn’t be in the same category as betting on baseball, and every clubhouse in the past 100 years has had a sign warning that betting on baseball would result in a lifetime ban...

[jacksonianmarch]

And every team was warned that they’ll be punished severely for using electronic media in the dugout.

 

Listen, if an employer decides something is not allowed, disseminates that info to every team employee and player and then punishes transgressors, then they’ve got every right to do so.

 

Someone else on here said it best. What these teams did was turn home games into BP.

 

Also, the Yanks were clearly onto something with Houston by the end of the ALCS in 2017. That’s when Sanchez would go to the mound after every batter and the cheating is likely impetus #1 for the mound visit rule.

 

Manfred wants to make the games shorter. Having teams know what’s coming via spy tech elongates the game.

[Elktonnick]

Electronic sign stealing isn’t and shouldn’t be in the same category as betting on baseball, and every clubhouse in the past 100 years has had a sign warning that betting on baseball would result in a lifetime ban...

 

It is illegal. It is just as insidious as gambling. It destroys the integrity of the game.

Like Rose Cora knew it was illegal when he did it. He deliberately violated the rules. He is fundamentally dishonest. Every person I ever fired for cheating or illegal behavior on the job always apologized and said how sorry they were. Yeah they were sorry alright, sorry they got caught.

 

Cora is a cheat, he defrauded the fans, he defrauded his opponents, he defrauded his bosses, he cost them their future. He deserves to be banned from baseball for the chest that he is.

[S5Dewey]

My bet is Henry met with Cora to quell the chances that anyone else is implicated. I’m pretty sure Henry already knows the intentions of the commish and he likely has some sort of side deal with Cora to take the blame and stay quiet. If this was condoned beyond DD or anyone in upper management knew of it, the punishment could severely curtail business ops beyond baseball.

 

Maybe Cora was the architect and nobody else in baseball ops was involved. Or maybe this was a huge conspiracy that went to the top and the savvy businessmen knew how to come off shiny and they shaped the narrative to crush the ones who are gone? I’m betting the same thing happens in boston

 

Funny thing... this same poster is insisting that Sox posters stick to the facts regarding the Yankees' potential involvement in any cheating but he's speculating all over the place about what the Sox "maybe" did.

 

I can spell (or is it smell) "double standard".

[Bellhorn04]

It is illegal. It is just as insidious as gambling. It destroys the integrity of the game.

Like Rose Cora knew it was illegal when he did it. He deliberately violated the rules. He is fundamentally dishonest. Every person I ever fired for cheating or illegal behavior on the job always apologized and said how sorry they were. Yeah they were sorry alright, sorry they got caught.

 

Cora is a cheat, he defrauded the fans, he defrauded his opponents, he defrauded his bosses, he cost them their future. He deserves to be banned from baseball for the chest that he is.

 

Why not ban all the rest of the Houston and Boston personnel who participated in the schemes too, then?

[notin]

It is illegal. It is just as insidious as gambling. It destroys the integrity of the game.

Like Rose Cora knew it was illegal when he did it. He deliberately violated the rules. He is fundamentally dishonest. Every person I ever fired for cheating or illegal behavior on the job always apologized and said how sorry they were. Yeah they were sorry alright, sorry they got caught.

 

Cora is a cheat, he defrauded the fans, he defrauded his opponents, he defrauded his bosses, he cost them their future. He deserves to be banned from baseball for the chest that he is.

 

No. And it’s not even close. Throwing a baseball game for gambling gives the game a predetermined outcome. Stealing signs doesn’t. It’s the baseball equivalent of counting cards at a blackjack table. Cora cheated and was fired for it, and his next managerial gig will probably be along the lines of Long Island Ducks. But no need to be so overly dramatic about it. ...

[Bellhorn04]

No. And it’s not even close. Throwing a baseball game for gambling gives the game a predetermined outcome. Stealing signs doesn’t. It’s the baseball equivalent of counting cards at a blackjack table. Cora cheated and was fired for it, and his next managerial gig will probably be along the lines of Long Island Ducks. But no need to be so overly dramatic about it. ...

 

What Rose did was strictly on his own. What Cora did was participation in a group effort.

 

Manfred decided to only discipline the higher-ups and give the players a free ride. Why? Because they were 'just following orders'? Or because it would have created such an incredible mess?

[mvp 78]

What Rose did was strictly on his own. What Cora did was participation in a group effort.

 

Manfred decided to only discipline the higher-ups and give the players a free ride. Why? Because they were 'just following orders'? Or because it would have created such an incredible mess?

 

Plus, it'll be easier to scapegoat one team than have to admit how rampant the problem actually is.