2020 HOF Vote Tracker

[mvp 78]

Derek Jeter will be the 2nd known PeD user in the HoF.

Rickey says "Rickey was the first".

 

#greeniescounttoo

[notin]

The veterans committees are a racket. They are why all those mediocre guys from the 40's are in there. All those guys need to be in a separate wing. The only guys who have been elected that way who are deserving are the Negro Leagues guys.

 

That's one are where baseball's racist past has actually been favorable. With MLB players, the stats get scoured over and compared to this guy and that guy and how long was the "period of dominance" and whether or not you were a compiler or a great player. The Negro League players have no real recorded stats, so they just go by the legends and it's good enough. I love that...

[DerekJackson]

Do yes answers to any or all of these Qs mean he shouldn't even be on the ballot?

 

Look, I agree he should not be a 100% winner. The babe wasn't even that, but he deserves to be on the ballot. (I would not vote for him.)

 

So you wouldn't vote for Jeter because you harp on his poor fielding but yet you claim Bogey is an untouchable building block while ignoring that Bogey was the worst non-catcher fielder in all of baseball last year and the worst fielding SS.

 

So is it really Jeter's fielding or blind homerism, let's be honest.

[Bellhorn04]

So you wouldn't vote for Jeter because you harp on his poor fielding but yet you claim Bogey is an untouchable building block while ignoring that Bogey was the worst non-catcher fielder in all of baseball last year and the worst fielding SS.

 

So is it really Jeter's fielding or blind homerism, let's be honest.

 

How's it goin', Babe?

[DerekJackson]

How's it goin', Babe?

 

???

[Bellhorn04]

???

 

Why do you make yourself so obvious with your screen names, man. As soon as I saw it I figured it was you. Too funny.

[mvp 78]

???

 

Every new poster is called out at some point for being a prior poster who has been banned multiple times. Just ignore the babe comments. You may also be called "dutchy" by A700 for similar reasons.

 

If you are neither of those people, you are welcome to stay as long as you'd like and welcome aboard!

[Slasher9]

So you wouldn't vote for Jeter because you harp on his poor fielding but yet you claim Bogey is an untouchable building block while ignoring that Bogey was the worst non-catcher fielder in all of baseball last year and the worst fielding SS.

 

So is it really Jeter's fielding or blind homerism, let's be honest.

 

is anyone advocating voting Xander into the HoF????

[Bellhorn04]

is anyone advocating voting Xander into the HoF????

 

It's Babe, Slash. Good times, huh?

[DerekJackson]

Every new poster is called out at some point for being a prior poster who has been banned multiple times. Just ignore the babe comments. You may also be called "dutchy" by A700 for similar reasons.

 

If you are neither of those people, you are welcome to stay as long as you'd like and welcome aboard!

 

Ah, thank you for the explanation.

 

And thanks for the welcome aboard!

[DerekJackson]

is anyone advocating voting Xander into the HoF????

 

No, I was just pointing out the double standard.

[Slasher9]

No, I was just pointing out the double standard.

 

but how is that a double standard?

HoF has zero to do with untouchable building block. its a stupid comparison.

plus your first post was simply not true. xander was not the worst ranked fielder in all of baseball and he was not the worst ranked SS in all of baseball. but that also has zero to do with stating the fact the derek jeter does not deserve to be a HOFer.

[moonslav59]

So you wouldn't vote for Jeter because you harp on his poor fielding but yet you claim Bogey is an untouchable building block while ignoring that Bogey was the worst non-catcher fielder in all of baseball last year and the worst fielding SS.

 

So is it really Jeter's fielding or blind homerism, let's be honest.

 

I have often harped on Bogey's defense. I wanted him moved to 3B at the start. He got a little better, then was up and down.

 

He's far from the worst, but he's bottom 33% in my opinion.

 

He has not done well for long enough to start talking HOF.

[mvp 78]

I have often harped on Bogey's defense. I wanted him moved to 3B at the start. He got a little better, then was up and down.

 

He's far from the worst, but he's bottom 33% in my opinion.

 

He has not done well for long enough to start talking HOF.

 

He was 11th in dWAR for SS last year. He's above average. He's been at least average for quite some time now. I still don't understand why you hate on his defense so much.

[notin]

Every new poster is called out at some point for being a prior poster who has been banned multiple times. Just ignore the babe comments. You may also be called "dutchy" by A700 for similar reasons.

 

If you are neither of those people, you are welcome to stay as long as you'd like and welcome aboard!

 

Unless you're pike...

[mvp 78]

Unless you're pike...

 

Who the f*** is that?

[Slasher9]

Who the f*** is that?

 

pike/lagunaseca, bill, softlaw were probably the alltime greats at making Red Sox boards insane

[a700hitter]

Every new poster is called out at some point for being a prior poster who has been banned multiple times. Just ignore the babe comments. You may also be called "dutchy" by A700 for similar reasons.

 

If you are neither of those people, you are welcome to stay as long as you'd like and welcome aboard!

Dutchy has dozens or reincarnations. Youk could confirm that. A permanent solution was found for Dutchy. LOL!!!

 

[DerekJackson]

I have often harped on Bogey's defense. I wanted him moved to 3B at the start. He got a little better, then was up and down.

 

He's far from the worst, but he's bottom 33% in my opinion.

 

He has not done well for long enough to start talking HOF.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=50&type=1&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=13,a

 

http://fieldingbible.com/DRSLeaderboard

[Slasher9]

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=50&type=1&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=13,a

 

http://fieldingbible.com/DRSLeaderboard

 

hopefully some day Xander can:

refuse to move off his position when the Sox acquire the GOAT ss to ever play

whine like a baby to the press to force the GM to overpay him in the twilight years

force the team to wear r2pect patch on their hats/jerseys

act like a baby dik

 

here's hoping!

[Slasher9]

also....it is a bit premature to grant Xander a spot in the HoF but DerekJackson might be right about Xander being a HoFer. maybe Xander is already a first ballot HoFer? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[moonslav59]

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=50&type=1&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31&sort=13,a

 

http://fieldingbible.com/DRSLeaderboard

 

He was 17th out of 38 SSs with 300+ innings in UZR/150. That's middle of the road.

 

He was last in DRS (38th).

 

That averages out to about 22.5 out of 38. Bottom half to bottom third- just like I said, but I like to use 3+ year sample sizes, especially for fielding.

 

Since 2015, he places 19th out of 37 with 2,000+ innings. He's last in DRS, but he has more than double the innings of some of the other ones near the bottom.

 

He's bottom third, IMO, but I wouldn't argue with anyone who says he's near 50% or near bottom 20-25%.

 

Of the SSs from Jeter's era, he placed 36th out 42 with 5,000+ innings in UZR/150.

 

Here's the shocker: -152 DRS! The next guy is at -84, then -69 and -62.

 

Jeter was clearly bottom 10% or even bottom 5%, or as I think- the worst of my lifetime.

 

Bogey is no even close to being the worst, except in one metric.

[DerekJackson]

He was 17th out of 38 SSs with 300+ innings in UZR/150. That's middle of the road.

 

He was last in DRS (38th).

 

That averages out to about 22.5 out of 38. Bottom half to bottom third- just like I said, but I like to use 3+ year sample sizes, especially for fielding.

 

Since 2015, he places 19th out of 37 with 2,000+ innings. He's last in DRS, but he has more than double the innings of some of the other ones near the bottom.

 

He's bottom third, IMO, but I wouldn't argue with anyone who says he's near 50% or near bottom 20-25%.

 

Of the SSs from Jeter's era, he placed 36th out 42 with 5,000+ innings in UZR/150.

 

Here's the shocker: -152 DRS! The next guy is at -84, then -69 and -62.

 

Jeter was clearly bottom 10% or even bottom 5%, or as I think- the worst of my lifetime.

 

Bogey is no even close to being the worst, except in one metric.

 

My point still stands.

 

You wouldn't vote for Jeter as a HOF'er because of his defense, despite the fact that he's 6th all time in hits, and is the ONLY player in the history of the game with at least 250 career homers, a .300 lifetime batting average, 350 steals and 3,000 hits.

 

Yet your SS, a below average fielder at best, is a "building block".

 

Yeah, sure, no bias at all.

[Bellhorn04]

My point still stands.

 

You wouldn't vote for Jeter as a HOF'er because of his defense, despite the fact that he's 6th all time in hits, and is the ONLY player in the history of the game with at least 250 career homers, a .300 lifetime batting average, 350 steals and 3,000 hits.

 

Yet your SS, a below average fielder at best, is a "building block".

 

Yeah, sure, no bias at all.

 

How much longer can you control yourself, Babe?

[DerekJackson]

How much longer can you control yourself, Babe?

 

I am not whoever you think I am.

 

If you have an issue with me then may I suggest you put me on ignore.

[Slasher9]

My point still stands.

 

You wouldn't vote for Jeter as a HOF'er because of his defense, despite the fact that he's 6th all time in hits, and is the ONLY player in the history of the game with at least 250 career homers, a .300 lifetime batting average, 350 steals and 3,000 hits.

 

Yet your SS, a below average fielder at best, is a "building block".

 

Yeah, sure, no bias at all.

 

he was an offensive stat compiler pure and simple. he slapped the ball to right field. if he played anywhere but YS he would have been out of baseball in 3 years. an average player at best that benefited from George's overspending and the miami clinics. some legends are written by ability. jeters wasnt.

[moonslav59]

My point still stands.

 

You wouldn't vote for Jeter as a HOF'er because of his defense, despite the fact that he's 6th all time in hits, and is the ONLY player in the history of the game with at least 250 career homers, a .300 lifetime batting average, 350 steals and 3,000 hits.

 

Yet your SS, a below average fielder at best, is a "building block".

 

Yeah, sure, no bias at all.

 

What point? That Bogey is the worst? He's the worst in one category/metric and middle of the road in just about all the rest.

 

Also...

 

1) I never said Bogey was HOF. I never said I'd keep him at SS for the rest of his time in Boston, either.

 

2) I said I would not vote for Jeter on the first ballot and probably wouldn't at all.

 

3) I didn't even think Cal Ripkin deserved to be in the HOF.

 

4) I don't think Schilling does either- so much for "bias." I didn't think Rice belonged, either.

Edited February 7, 2020 by moonslav59

[DerekJackson]

he was an offensive stat compiler pure and simple. he slapped the ball to right field. if he played anywhere but YS he would have been out of baseball in 3 years. an average player at best that benefited from George's overspending and the miami clinics. some legends are written by ability. jeters wasnt.

 

Yes, because average players end up 6th on the all time hit list.

 

And there's plenty of "average" players who hit for a lifetime average of .300+ over a 20yr career.

 

SMH

[moonslav59]

he was an offensive stat compiler pure and simple. he slapped the ball to right field. if he played anywhere but YS he would have been out of baseball in 3 years. an average player at best that benefited from George's overspending and the miami clinics. some legends are written by ability. jeters wasnt.

 

The guy played like 100 years. 3,000 hits / 100 is just 30 a year. (LOL)

 

He was a good hitter- very good for a SS.

 

He ran the bases well.

 

He sucked on defense at maybe THE most important defensive position in baseball. Had he moved to 3B, like he should have (or 2B), when ARod joined the Yanks. I'd probably feel much differently.

[moonslav59]

Yes, because average players end up 6th on the all time hit list.

 

And there's plenty of "average" players who hit for a lifetime average of .300+ over a 20yr career.

 

SMH

 

It's the 20 years not the .300 that is amazing.

 

Besides, using BA is SOooooo 70's.

 

His .817 OPS is not amazing.