2020 HOF Vote Tracker

[moonslav59]

Based on your expectations, if DJ doesn't belong, we should remove most of the ones already in the HOF

 

I'd agree with that.

 

It's not delusional to think a horrible fielding player who plays the most important defensive position, except catcher might not belong in the HOF.

[notin]

Specially Vizquel, if Ozzie Smith is in, Vizquel should get more votes, prime examples of glove first SS

 

You could make the same argument for Andruw Jones. Except the SS part...

[notin]

am i?

answer yes/no to the following questions:

Did Derek Jeter refuse to move from SS when the team acquired one of the GOAT SS?

Did Derek Jeter hold Cashman and the yankees hostage and do a PR hissy fit negotiating his final contract?

Did Derek Jeter force the Yankees to wear the Re2pect patch for a month and invite the "retirement tour" which splintered the clubhouse and no doubt was a main factor in the NYY missing the postseason for the first time in a million seasons?

 

 

Also he ruined the career of budding star Garrison Lassiter. At least that’s what the lawsuit says.

 

But then, a lot of A-ball pitchers also ruined the career of Garrison Lassiter as well...

[Bellhorn04]

Also he ruined the career of budding star Garrison Lassiter. At least that’s what the lawsuit says.

 

But then, a lot of A-ball pitchers also ruined the career of Garrison Lassiter as well...

 

This Lassiter dude obviously has mental issues and needs help. Sad.

[mvp 78]

You could make the same argument for Andruw Jones. Except the SS part...

 

Jones>>>Vizquel

[notin]

Jones>>>Vizquel

 

 

I call it an apples/oranges comparison for the two best defensive players ever at their respective positions. Both should be enshrined...

[notin]

This Lassiter dude obviously has mental issues and needs help. Sad.

 

 

Not so sure. He makes a good case. After all, in high school he was the same height and weight as Corey Seager.

 

(For those of you who have not read about this case, that’s actually part of his argument. Seriously. Go read about it.)

[moonslav59]

I call it an apples/oranges comparison for the two best defensive players ever at their respective positions. Both should be enshrined...

 

Agreed, and even if Jones >>> Vizquel, the SS is so important, defensively, that both are highly deserving.

[mvp 78]

I call it an apples/oranges comparison for the two best defensive players ever at their respective positions. Both should be enshrined...

 

Jones could actually hit.

[mvp 78]

There are 6 other SS with higher career dWAR than Omar. He’s far from greatest of all time. Should Belanger be in HOF?

[Bellhorn04]

I'd agree with that.

 

It's not delusional to think a horrible fielding player who plays the most important defensive position, except catcher might not belong in the HOF.

 

If you don't think Jeter deserves to get in the HOF, you're completely refuting WAR as a measuring tool.

[moonslav59]

If you don't think Jeter deserves to get in the HOF, you're completely refuting WAR as a measuring tool.

 

I've never said WAR is the be-all-end-all tool.

 

I'm very stingy on who belongs in the HOF. I'm not changing my criteria over Jeter. I don't think Schilling belongs, either, so it's not a Yankee thing.

 

I'm also very stingy on those that get in just because they played 20 years of better than mediocre ball.

 

I think Jeter's defense was so bad, it lowered his overall value to pint where he's close, but I'd vote no. Maybe by his last chance ballot I might change my mind.

 

I like WAR. I use WAR, at times but not often. I think it has flaws, and maybe this case highlights one of them.

 

Jeter was a horrible fielder for more than half his career. He played a position where defense is extremely important. Maybe I over value SS defense, and I'm dead wrong, but it's who I am. I would not vote for Jeter on the first ballot and probably every one until maybe his last year on the ballot.

 

[moonslav59]

There are 6 other SS with higher career dWAR than Omar. He’s far from greatest of all time. Should Belanger be in HOF?

 

He'd be on my top 10 list of SSs I'd want on my team for more than a decade.

 

HOF? Maybe-maybe not.

[mvp 78]

Moon’s hall:

 

Empty, but Babe Ruth is up to 74% of the vote this year. Better luck next time!

[moonslav59]

Moon’s hall:

 

Empty, but Babe Ruth is up to 74% of the vote this year. Better luck next time!

 

LOL.

 

I already said I'd vote for Bonds, Clemens, Manny & Walker. That's 4 in 1 year- hardly empty.

 

All way more deserving than Jete.

[Carpin]

LOL.

 

I already said I'd vote for Bonds, Clemens, Manny & Walker. That's 4 in 1 year- hardly empty.

 

All way more deserving than Jete.

 

I'm assuming you are voting for Arod in a couple years

[Carpin]

and won't vote for David Ortiz when the time comes

[Slasher9]

there are a lot of players in the HoF that dont really deserve to be there. does that mean we should just continue to put unworthy players in?

thats dumb.

cant undue whats been done but we can certainly cease making similar errors in judgement.

[Slasher9]

and won't vote for David Ortiz when the time comes

 

ortiz played SS???

[Carpin]

ortiz played SS???

 

no, but based on moon's argument bad defenders don't deserve to be in the HOF

 

for the record, I'd vote for Ortiz to the HOF

[Slasher9]

no, but based on moon's argument bad defenders don't deserve to be in the HOF

 

for the record, I'd vote for Ortiz to the HOF

 

ahhh OK. i just dont consider Ortiz a "defender" at all.

whether or not a "DH" should be in the Hall is a different discussion then negative defense implications IMO.

[Carpin]

ahhh OK. i just dont consider Ortiz a "defender" at all.

whether or not a "DH" should be in the Hall is a different discussion then negative defense implications IMO.

 

I don't consider Ortiz a defender, but he had negative defensive value thru his career and based on his argument he shouldn't be in HOF

[mvp 78]

there are a lot of players in the HoF that dont really deserve to be there. does that mean we should just continue to put unworthy players in?

thats dumb.

cant undue whats been done but we can certainly cease making similar errors in judgement.

 

Or just make a HOF that people actually want to go to since this sport is dying.

[Slasher9]

Or just make a HOF that people actually want to go to since this sport is dying.

 

I spent 2 hours stumbling around that building trying to find Schills bloody sock. finally i asked one of the workers where the display was located....all his memorabilia was removed from the Hall and sold to help payback his Studio38 debacle. i was pizzed....

[moonslav59]

no, but based on moon's argument bad defenders don't deserve to be in the HOF

 

for the record, I'd vote for Ortiz to the HOF

 

I never said that. Being bad but not horrible might still allow you to get in.

 

Or, if you are a great hitter (Jeter was not), it could outweigh being a really bad fielder.

 

Jeter was a good hitter, a good runner and a horrible defender at an important position. It's close, but I say no- certainly on the first ballot, but it looks like I'm in a tiny minority on this case.

 

How many players get in with a unanimous vote first ballot? Do you think Jeter deserves that?

[moonslav59]

I'm assuming you are voting for Arod in a couple years

 

Not on the first ballot.

[moonslav59]

I spent 2 hours stumbling around that building trying to find Schills bloody sock. finally i asked one of the workers where the display was located....all his memorabilia was removed from the Hall and sold to help payback his Studio38 debacle. i was pizzed....

 

They should have the check he got by selling it there. It's a story by itself.

[moonslav59]

and won't vote for David Ortiz when the time comes

 

Not first ballot, but yes on the second one.

 

He barley played in the field and did not lose too many games on defense.

 

His bat far out-weighed Jete's.

[mvp 78]

Per Jay Jaffe live chat today:

 

Odds are slightly better that he gets over 75%, but it's going to be pretty close unlike Raines and Edgar's final years.

[mvp 78]

Jaffe also believes that Schilling will be high 60's and Clemens and Bonds will be low 60's.