Bloom move your asssssss

[Bellhorn04]

You can deal him and fill multiple holes or you can let him walk for a draft pick after washing out in 2020.

 

Um, what happened to the third scenario where we keep him and re-sign him?

[notin]

Is Betts at +50 even with a projected cost of $27 mil?

 

Yes. They just wrote a whole article on why his trade value is 50...

[jacksonianmarch]

Um, what happened to the third scenario where we keep him and re-sign him?

 

You can trade him AND sign him. Those aren’t mutually exclusive. You can pull a Chapman. We got Gleyber Torres for free! If the Sox were loading up for a 2020 title, then you gotta ride this out, but clearly you’re not. Dealing him makes the most sense. And if Betts is true to his word, don’t be outbid on the open market

[moonslav59]

Is Betts at +50 even with a projected cost of $27 mil?

 

Yes, of course.

 

Apparently, and I don't necessarily disagree, his on-field value is $77M.

[moonslav59]

Sentimentality gets in the way of reality. You’ve got one year of a hall of fame talent on a team that appears to be going nowhere and has made no measurable improvements due to budgetary constraints. You can deal him and fill multiple holes or you can let him walk for a draft pick after washing out in 2020. What do you want to do? You’re not dealing him for a top 10 prospect, it just ain’t happening

 

Top 10's have gone for less, but my guess is we get 2-3 decent prospects or young ML players.

[jacksonianmarch]

Top 10's have gone for less, but my guess is we get 2-3 decent prospects or young ML players.

 

There have been some huckleberry's out there. Like when Kazmir went for Zambrano, lol. Dumb move for sure.

 

But typically top 10ers make their debut with their squad or get dealt for players under far more control than 1 season. Looking at the Dodgers, getting a MLB OFer, a cost controlled MLB SP and a top 40 prospect with absolute smoke in his arm is a good get for one year of a HOF level OFer on a team that is going nowhere

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sentimentality gets in the way of reality. You’ve got one year of a hall of fame talent on a team that appears to be going nowhere and has made no measurable improvements due to budgetary constraints. You can deal him and fill multiple holes or you can let him walk for a draft pick after washing out in 2020. What do you want to do? You’re not dealing him for a top 10 prospect, it just ain’t happening

 

I'll take my chances with the young core group about to enter its prime headlined by a future Hall of Famer. The reality is the Red Sox are not trading him for more piles to make 2020 easier for their mighty rivals.

[jacksonianmarch]

Take your chances then. I have been telling you for weeks what I am wishing for. I am hoping against hope that Betts makes it to FA as a Red Sock. That means that the sox cannot cash in on his expiring contract and fill the multitude of other holes on the roster. That means that they will have to accept worse deals on their other guys to get under the LT. That means that they may not be able to sneak under the LT and may not be able to re-sign Betts, or that re-signing Betts will preclude the sox upgrading their pitching. Not dealing Betts is my Red Sox wish #1. If the sox keep him for 2020, barring a miracle, the Yanks will smoke the sox. So don't get my motives wrong here. I want you to hang onto him. I just assume Bloom is smarter than that and will fill holes by dealing him off. Then, if they really want him, they will have the LT situation reset and they can outbid everyone for 2021

[Nick]

Yes, of course.

 

Apparently, and I don't necessarily disagree, his on-field value is $77M.

 

 

Are you saying Betts is valued at $77M per annum? Valuation that has no relevance to market value becomes totally meaningless, no?

[Nick]

I'm not convinced we'll get sub-par seasons from Price, Sale and Eovaldi again. Pessimism abound as new year begins.

 

I'll go to mat with what we got. We can't continue to buy our way out of trouble. I'm okay losing with Dalbec's of the world as opposed to say Sam Travis. Former has potential, latter has no upside any longer. Let's get some young talent out there. But that doesn't mean we clean house.

[notin]

Take your chances then. I have been telling you for weeks what I am wishing for. I am hoping against hope that Betts makes it to FA as a Red Sock. That means that the sox cannot cash in on his expiring contract and fill the multitude of other holes on the roster. That means that they will have to accept worse deals on their other guys to get under the LT. That means that they may not be able to sneak under the LT and may not be able to re-sign Betts, or that re-signing Betts will preclude the sox upgrading their pitching. Not dealing Betts is my Red Sox wish #1. If the sox keep him for 2020, barring a miracle, the Yanks will smoke the sox. So don't get my motives wrong here. I want you to hang onto him. I just assume Bloom is smarter than that and will fill holes by dealing him off. Then, if they really want him, they will have the LT situation reset and they can outbid everyone for 2021

 

 

Unless we move Eovaldi and Bradley, whose combined salary is roughly the same as Betts...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Reverse psychosis won't work on Bloom, either.

 

Keeping Betts, trying to resign him, and getting a draft pick if we can't is better than filling holes with more mediocrity this year. Like Notin says, there's not much left on this free agent market anyway. But there will be in the 2021 offseason, which the Sox can spend on with the $400 mil they save if Mookie leaves.

 

NY smoked Boston last year, and Boston smoked NY the year before. Assuming all the Yankee breakout benchwarmers will repeat 2019 is akin to assuming all the Red Sox veteran pitchers will repeat 2018. With scenario is more realistic?

 

There are new dynamics in the Bronx, with Torres at short, Stanton in the outfield and a new stater replacing German. Cole won 20 for a better team last year, while German won 18... The juggernaut lost German, Didi and Romine, and gained Cole. That doesn't seem like that much of an upgrade, realistically speaking.

[jacksonianmarch]

Last I checked, German is gone for 2 months, not forever, and we gained Severino who was top 10 in CY in 17 and 18. We also have a healthy Montgomery.

[moonslav59]

Are you saying Betts is valued at $77M per annum? Valuation that has no relevance to market value becomes totally meaningless, no?

 

He's probably worth $80M for 2020.

 

Would he get that in a contract? No. But, the owner makes money of Betts.

[Slasher9]

1st - Happy New Year everyone. we can all finally see clearly.

 

i am glad that Bloom is taking his time to try and get the best offers possible for Price and/or Betts and/or JBj.

a number of pages ago it was amusing seeing people post:

"what is idiot Bloom doing - he hasn't traded anyone yet"

and then in another post they would state:

"the rumored offers for Price are terrible - we should not trade him for that"

so.....which is it???

Bloom sucks for not dumping players for terrible offers in December.

or

Bloom is smart for waiting for better offers.

 

also, for years some of us have been saying JH will reset/Cliff is coming. for years certain posters have responded with vitriol towards that. (many examples but my personal fav is "why are you trying to save JH money").

 

also, DD was fired because he managed the trifecta:

- signed bad LTC's

- traded away top prospects

- turned a top Farm system into one of the worst

 

I would say that he would still be here if he only did 2 of the 3. but he did all 3 so even the parade in 2018 was not going to save him from JH ax. so now we get to pay the price for that parade. and with Bloom it could be a 1 season price to pay. but that requires a bit of patience this offseason and not jumping at the first 2 or 10 dumb trades that he may have been offered thus far from other GM's.

 

also, no way Mookie is signing an extension. he is going to FA. it would benefit the Red Sox if we are able to move him for prospects and/or reset the LT. this will not hurt our chances to sign him in FA as he will 100% sign with whichever team offers him the best contract.

 

stop playing checkers.

[Bellhorn04]

also, DD was fired because he managed the trifecta:

- signed bad LTC's

- traded away top prospects

- turned a top Farm system into one of the worst

 

#2 and #3 are pretty closely related.

[Slasher9]

#2 and #3 are pretty closely related.

 

maybe. they can also be independent. In Slasher's world they are

As a GM you can:

- not overpay with prospects

- get prospects via trade

- draft more better prospects

[jacksonianmarch]

1st - Happy New Year everyone. we can all finally see clearly.

 

i am glad that Bloom is taking his time to try and get the best offers possible for Price and/or Betts and/or JBj.

a number of pages ago it was amusing seeing people post:

"what is idiot Bloom doing - he hasn't traded anyone yet"

and then in another post they would state:

"the rumored offers for Price are terrible - we should not trade him for that"

so.....which is it???

Bloom sucks for not dumping players for terrible offers in December.

or

Bloom is smart for waiting for better offers.

 

also, for years some of us have been saying JH will reset/Cliff is coming. for years certain posters have responded with vitriol towards that. (many examples but my personal fav is "why are you trying to save JH money").

 

also, DD was fired because he managed the trifecta:

- signed bad LTC's

- traded away top prospects

- turned a top Farm system into one of the worst

 

I would say that he would still be here if he only did 2 of the 3. but he did all 3 so even the parade in 2018 was not going to save him from JH ax. so now we get to pay the price for that parade. and with Bloom it could be a 1 season price to pay. but that requires a bit of patience this offseason and not jumping at the first 2 or 10 dumb trades that he may have been offered thus far from other GM's.

 

also, no way Mookie is signing an extension. he is going to FA. it would benefit the Red Sox if we are able to move him for prospects and/or reset the LT. this will not hurt our chances to sign him in FA as he will 100% sign with whichever team offers him the best contract.

 

stop playing checkers.

 

I agree with all of this post

 

The one point I will add is that at this juncture, the idea of dealing off anyone for "best possible return" will fly in the face of being competitive in 2020 as the options on the FA market suck beyond Donaldson and maybe Ozuna. Bloom's best possible return at this point fills the holes left by the players being dealt away

[moonslav59]

I'm still waiting for the "Farm can easily be rebuilt" to happen, as the cliff-deniers promised.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm still waiting for the "Farm can easily be rebuilt" to happen, as the cliff-deniers promised.

 

DD went all in and wiped clean the farm. If you have a great production machine, you can rebuild that in 2-3 seasons. The sox also broke their production machine as DD essentially isolated himself from the development team and the disconnect caused almost no organizational progress. The farm system can be reproduced quickly via trade or slowly via draft and IFA. With the sox starting from scratch, it would behoove them to get higher picks and deal off some assets if they are to rebuild.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The farm produced the best young core of MLB stars that ever won a ring for Boston this century -- six homegrown players out of nine that clinched the Series in LA (according to Speier, the last time a World Series champ had that many was the '84 Tigers).

 

Dombrowski traded away none of them, and none of the other guys he did deal -- including Moncada, two years older than Devers at third -- are still not as good as the ones he kept...

 

Too many get fixated on the notion that Dombro sold our souls for one championship because of last season. But re-signing the top two pitchers he swapped for -- before they turned 30 -- was the right move for a club shooting for more titles. It just didn't work out... for one year so far.

 

As for the jettisoned prospects that actually looked or look decent -- Shaw, Margot, Kopech, and more lately Buttrey, Beeks, Allen, Dubon -- any GM would've made those trades if they knew it would guarantee a trophy. That's one of the luxuries of having a deep system... and one a lot of posters now lament because good depth is currently unavailable. But how many other teams have won recently with their own young cores? Houston and KC from tanking?

[jacksonianmarch]

That was 2 years ago, when Eovaldi found his magic, Porcello didn’t suck then leave, Price’s arm didn’t need an operation, and Sale’s arm was in slightly better shape. You had a closer with a well delineated pen hierarchy and pitchers who did well with their designed roles. Your offense is still dynamite. It’s the pitching that’s the downfall

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That was 2 years ago, when Eovaldi found his magic, Porcello didn’t suck then leave, Price’s arm didn’t need an operation, and Sale’s arm was in slightly better shape. You had a closer with a well delineated pen hierarchy and pitchers who did well with their designed roles. Your offense is still dynamite. It’s the pitching that’s the downfall

 

Same problem with a lot of teams; almost every year with all 29 also-rans. Baseball is year-to-year for everyone, unless you're the 90s Braves with three Hall of Famers heading your rotation.

 

The Sox need to rebuild farm depth, but they don't need to rebuild their MLB club.

[moonslav59]

The farm produced the best young core of MLB stars that ever won a ring for Boston this century -- six homegrown players out of nine that clinched the Series in LA (according to Speier, the last time a World Series champ had that many was the '84 Tigers).

 

Dombrowski traded away none of them, and none of the other guys he did deal -- including Moncada, two years older than Devers at third -- are still not as good as the ones he kept...

 

Too many get fixated on the notion that Dombro sold our souls for one championship because of last season. But re-signing the top two pitchers he swapped for -- before they turned 30 -- was the right move for a club shooting for more titles. It just didn't work out... for one year so far.

 

As for the jettisoned prospects that actually looked or look decent -- Shaw, Margot, Kopech, and more lately Buttrey, Beeks, Allen, Dubon -- any GM would've made those trades if they knew it would guarantee a trophy. That's one of the luxuries of having a deep system... and one a lot of posters now lament because good depth is currently unavailable. But how many other teams have won recently with their own young cores? Houston and KC from tanking?

 

DD kept the right prospect in Devers, but the fact is he traded away just about everyone else. Sure, that's not the only thing he did, but let's not sugar coat it just because his signings and extensions look worse, right now.

 

I'm not complaining about all the trades of prospects, since we won a ring. Had we not, I'd be ape s***, right now, but I never fooled myself into thinking we wouldn't have to pay for all those deals someday. I had hoped the window would stay open until 2021, so the crash of 2019 sucked and likely cost DD his job, but the day is here and now.

[moonslav59]

Same problem with a lot of teams; almost every year with all 29 also-rans. Baseball is year-to-year for everyone, unless you're the 90s Braves with three Hall of Famers heading your rotation.

 

The Sox need to rebuild farm depth, but they don't need to rebuild their MLB club.

 

It's harder to rebuild the farm system, when you pick later than 20th for several years in a row plus have limited IFA bonus pool money due to spending large year after year. We even had our pick lowered 10 slots for going over $40M one year. We also had one year where were not allowed any IFA signings.

 

The days are gone where we got several comp picks nearly every year and we able to draft studs in the late first round due to signability issues.

Edited January 6, 2020 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

That was 2 years ago, when Eovaldi found his magic, Porcello didn’t suck then leave, Price’s arm didn’t need an operation, and Sale’s arm was in slightly better shape.

 

But meanwhile you're penciling in Severino and Montgomery for 2020 full health and effectiveness...

[moonslav59]

But meanwhile you're penciling in Severino and Montgomery for 2020 full health and effectiveness...

 

I respect jacko, but he certainly has the pink shaded glasses on when viewing the Yankee injured players.

[Swiharts Ghost]

I respect jacko, but he certainly has the pink shaded glasses on when viewing the Yankee injured players.

 

Moon quick question at work .What are Mookie Home and Road Splits ? Are you thinking what I am ?

[moonslav59]

Moon quick question at work .What are Mookie Home and Road Splits ? Are you thinking what I am ?

 

Career:

.930 at home

.858 away

 

2019:

.977 home

.853 away

 

I'm not thinking this makes me want to keep or trade him any more or less.

 

I want Betts to retire in a Sox uniform, but I would not mind seeing him play for another team for one year, if it helps us rebuild our team faster and we re-sign him next winter.

 

BTW, best Betts OPS by ball park (50+ PAs only)

1.055 KC

1.051 LAA

1.006 BAL

.945 TOR

.933 HOU

.931 BOS

.904 MN

.881 CWS

.852 TX

 

All others under .763 or not enough PAs to qualify.

[Swiharts Ghost]

A

Career:

.930 at home

.858 away

 

2019:

.977 home

.853 away

 

I'm not thinking this makes me want to keep or trade him any more or less.

 

I want Betts to retire in a Sox uniform, but I would not mind seeing him play for another team for one year, if it helps us rebuild our team faster and we re-sign him next winter.

 

BTW, best Betts OPS by ball park (50+ PAs only)

1.055 KC

1.051 LAA

1.006 BAL

.945 TOR

.933 HOU

.931 BOS

.904 MN

.881 CWS

.852 TX

 

All others under .763 or not enough PAs to qualify.

 

s*** that doesn’t help ...guy rakes everywhere .I don’t know Moon .I loved me some Nomar too .I have a feeling Mookie hits around 400 HR bats around 285 and is a absolute stud defensively the next 10years then tails off abut he’s.not a machine .I think that Ballplayer is likely worth 350 million over 10 .I just don’t think he’s the best player in the game hell most think Lindor and Judge maybe better ? There’s a kid on The Nationals and Braves that may beat that door down soon also .Moon Mookie is a 350 million dollar ball player and top 5 now but 2 years from now ? I don’t know .....Stand firm at 350 if he balks trade him rebuild the farm .Dodgers ,Braves ,Padres are on the clock for a reason .Either we low balled him and have no intention of an extension or we are ironing out small details of a trade to be announced .Mookie answer needs to be completed before Pitchers and Catchers .

Edited January 6, 2020 by Swiharts Ghost