Bloom move your asssssss

[Elktonnick]

Bloomin Onion appears to have no plan to assemble a competitive roster for 2020.

 

And may he be punished at the box office for it.

[notin]

The union told agents and players this week that, in 2019, the average salary for players dipped for a second straight year — the first time in the union’s history that consecutive declines have been recorded.

 

The players have seen the Lux Tax become a de facto salary cap. The players problem is analytics have changed the calculation so much that the trend is towards younger players. The younger players are concerned that the current system rewards older players. These are just a few of the issues facing the players as they enter negotiations. They have not yet resolved all the questions among themselves to be able to present any kind of unified approach towards the owners. They know that they don't want a salary cap but have seen the Luxury Tax essentially become one. Whatever the outcome the only certainty is change.

 

The agents might be making the argument it’s a de facto salary cap, but in nearly all MLB cities that clearly isn’t the case. The fact is, only a handful approach it, and those who do routinely exceed it and occasionally reset. But that’s limited to maybe 5 teams. The rest just spend what they can/want to, which is nowhere near that limit.

 

Anyway this is actually all moot for this year. There still is a current CBA with penalties for spending in place, and it’s EXTREMELY unlikely a new CBA is in place in time for the penalties from the current one to be superseded. And highlighting all the issues just re-enforces that reality, and that is very likely why the Sox are not spending, although “Henry doesn’t want to” is also a district possibility.

 

And it really doesn’t matter if you like it or if you can rationalize reasons why they’re wrong and you’re right...

[Elktonnick]

The agents might be making the argument it’s a de facto salary cap, but in nearly all MLB cities that clearly isn’t the case. The fact is, only a handful approach it, and those who do routinely exceed it and occasionally reset. But that’s limited to maybe 5 teams. The rest just spend what they can/want to, which is nowhere near that limit.

 

Anyway this is actually all moot for this year. There still is a current CBA with penalties for spending in place, and it’s EXTREMELY unlikely a new CBA is in place in time for the penalties from the current one to be superseded. And highlighting all the issues just re-enforces that reality, and that is very likely why the Sox are not spending, although “Henry doesn’t want to” is also a district possibility.

 

And it really doesn’t matter if you like it or if you can rationalize reasons why they’re wrong and you’re right...

 

The players union has yet to come up with its position on it other than the current situation is untenable to the union. That fact that average salary has declined while a few players reap huge pay days isn't sitting well with the union as a whole and they blame the LUX Tax

[Tedballgame]

Bloomin Onion appears to have no plan to assemble a competitive roster for 2020.

Way too early to say that. Still plenty of time to make trades and pick up guys. Lots of FAs still out there. Sox brought in JDM in February 26th of 2018.

[notin]

The players union has yet to come up with its position on it other than the current situation is untenable to the union. That fact that average salary has declined while a few players reap huge pay days isn't sitting well with the union as a whole and they blame the LUX Tax

 

If the union has no position, all the more reason to be cautious. If they had some ideas on their demands it might be a jumping off point.

 

But really, the bottom line is Henry has decreed payroll is going down and the Dombrowski Days of throwing money at any roster gap might be over. As the reset is “a goal by not a mandate,” the CBA might not be the big factor you think it is. Maybe it’s as simple as John Henry is tired of dropping in excess of $200 mill annually and then watching other GMs win titles without doing so?

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe it’s as simple as John Henry is tired of dropping in excess of $200 mill annually and then watching other GMs win titles without doing so?

 

I don't think that's quite accurate.

 

Henry has spent big on the team pretty much since Day One, and has done very well by it. 4 titles and a very robust increase in the value of the asset. He has nothing to complain about and neither do we.

 

No other GM's have done better than Henry's Red Sox GM's.

[mvp 78]

I don't think that's quite accurate.

 

Henry has spent big on the team pretty much since Day One, and has done very well by it. 4 titles and a very robust increase in the value of the asset. He has nothing to complain about and neither do we.

 

No other GM's have done better than Henry's Red Sox GM's.

 

Except that he just fired the GM because the payroll was over the luxury tax. Henry could have stopped DD from any of those signings if he wanted to, especially the 2019 ones.

[Bellhorn04]

Except that he just fired the GM because the payroll was over the luxury tax. Henry could have stopped DD from any of those signings if he wanted to, especially the 2019 ones.

 

It's my personal belief that the main reason DD was replaced is because we need a rebuilder now.

[moonslav59]

I don't think that's quite accurate.

 

Henry has spent big on the team pretty much since Day One, and has done very well by it. 4 titles and a very robust increase in the value of the asset. He has nothing to complain about and neither do we.

 

No other GM's have done better than Henry's Red Sox GM's.

 

While I agree, it must have hurt to outspend everybody- most by 2 or 3 times and miss the playoffs.

 

Couple that with us having one of the worst farms in MLB, and it's no wonder some heads rolled.

[moonslav59]

Except that he just fired the GM because the payroll was over the luxury tax. Henry could have stopped DD from any of those signings if he wanted to, especially the 2019 ones.

 

Yes, but it was the massive spending of money and prospects AND THEN losing that broke the camel's back.

 

Just because Henry trusted DD was doing the right thing by big signings and trades, doesn't mean DD was not going to be held accountable, if it didn't work.

 

Henry knows he's not the expert on which players are worth signing or trading for. He left that to Theo, Ben then DD. When they failed, they were replaced.

[Jack Flap]

Way too early to say that. Still plenty of time to make trades and pick up guys. Lots of FAs still out there. Sox brought in JDM in February 26th of 2018.

 

Quite true. There is no award for having your roster finalized by Christmas, as much as fans might like it to be so.

 

Given the situation he inherited and what is being asked of him this winter, I'm still inclined to give Bloom a year or two at minimum before really trying to judge his performance...certainly longer than a month or two, in any case.

[Elktonnick]

If the union has no position, all the more reason to be cautious. If they had some ideas on their demands it might be a jumping off point.

 

But really, the bottom line is Henry has decreed payroll is going down and the Dombrowski Days of throwing money at any roster gap might be over. As the reset is “a goal by not a mandate,” the CBA might not be the big factor you think it is. Maybe it’s as simple as John Henry is tired of dropping in excess of $200 mill annually and then watching other GMs win titles without doing so?

Because the Union has not publically articulated its position is not the same as saying they have no ideas on their demands. These are likely to be very difficult negotiations. The declining average salary is a huge bone of contention while total revenues increase. I think the CBA is casting a shadow over everything. It is the elephant in the room. Moreover MLB playing tough with the minor leagues is not going unnoticed by the player's union. It portends a rocky road ahead.

[notin]

Because the Union has not publically articulated its position is not the same as saying they have no ideas on their demands. These are likely to be very difficult negotiations. The declining average salary is a huge bone of contention while total revenues increase. I think the CBA is casting a shadow over everything. It is the elephant in the room. Moreover MLB playing tough with the minor leagues is not going unnoticed by the player's union. It portends a rocky road ahead.

 

 

But most of your points rely heavily on the expiring CBA. It is entirely possible Henry simply no longer wants to spend that much every year...

[Bellhorn04]

Because the Union has not publically articulated its position is not the same as saying they have no ideas on their demands. These are likely to be very difficult negotiations. The declining average salary is a huge bone of contention while total revenues increase.

 

Let's see what the average salary is for 2020. I'm guessing it will be the highest ever after this offseason's signings and arb raises.

[cp176]

As bright as some of you would like to sound with respect to what John Henry wants to do with payroll and why he fired this one and that one and on and on, unless you are a part of his direct team you really are just guessing. Even the deluge of information that you have found to support your beliefs, bottom line you don't know what is likely to happen. As much as many of you would like to see this team go into rebuild mode, you don't know whether or not that is what is going to happen. This is where I have been asked to state what I think is likely to happen, I can honestly say that I have no clue. I think that it is as likely that JH sells the team as it is that he chooses to go full rebuild.

[Elktonnick]

Let's see what the average salary is for 2020. I'm guessing it will be the highest ever after this offseason's signings and arb raises.

Not likely. The trend is younger players. Younger players mean lower salaries. Remember the average salary has declined two years in a row.

[mvp 78]

It's my personal belief that the main reason DD was replaced is because we need a rebuilder now.

 

Did we need one in January 2019?

[mvp 78]

While I agree, it must have hurt to outspend everybody- most by 2 or 3 times and miss the playoffs.

 

Couple that with us having one of the worst farms in MLB, and it's no wonder some heads rolled.

 

They just won 108 games and the WS the year before.

[Bellhorn04]

Not likely. The trend is younger players. Younger players mean lower salaries. Remember the average salary has declined two years in a row.

 

It has declined marginally.

 

2017 4.45

2018 4.41

2019 4.38

 

I'll bet anything it's higher in 2020 than in 2019.

 

The highest contract for a pitcher just went from 217 mill to 324 mill.

 

And look at the arb raises Mookie and E-Rod are expected to get.

 

The younger players thing is being offset a lot by the higher arb salaries.

[Elktonnick]

But most of your points rely heavily on the expiring CBA. It is entirely possible Henry simply no longer wants to spend that much every year...

Possible but not probable. Henry is a guy who will spend what is necessary to net a return. The number itself is meaningless unless it produces a positive result. He would spend more if he thought it would benefit him and his team. The problem was what the money was spent on did not produce the positive result desired. If it had we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Bellhorn04]

Did we need one in January 2019?

 

Yes.

[mvp 78]

Yes, but it was the massive spending of money and prospects AND THEN losing that broke the camel's back.

 

Just because Henry trusted DD was doing the right thing by big signings and trades, doesn't mean DD was not going to be held accountable, if it didn't work.

 

Henry knows he's not the expert on which players are worth signing or trading for. He left that to Theo, Ben then DD. When they failed, they were replaced.

 

They went 38-43 at home and 46-35 away. In 2018, they went 57-24 at home. You don't think they'll have some positive regression with that home record in 2020 if they keep the same squad? That's a team that needs to be dismantled?

[Bellhorn04]

They just won 108 games and the WS the year before.

 

Yep. But the way things are set up, the chicken salad can turn to chicken s*** really fast now.

[mvp 78]

Yes.

 

Guys, we just won 108 games. Time to blow it up!

 

I remember all those great posts of yours about that last offseason. You were right!

[Bellhorn04]

They went 38-43 at home and 46-35 away. In 2018, they went 57-24 at home. You don't think they'll have some positive regression with that home record in 2020 if they keep the same squad? That's a team that needs to be dismantled?

 

It's a team that needs payroll reduced below 208 mill.

[Bellhorn04]

Guys, we just won 108 games. Time to blow it up!

 

I remember all those great posts of yours about that last offseason. You were right!

 

I'm not saying blow it up, nothing even close to that.

[mvp 78]

As bright as some of you would like to sound with respect to what John Henry wants to do with payroll and why he fired this one and that one and on and on, unless you are a part of his direct team you really are just guessing. Even the deluge of information that you have found to support your beliefs, bottom line you don't know what is likely to happen. As much as many of you would like to see this team go into rebuild mode, you don't know whether or not that is what is going to happen. This is where I have been asked to state what I think is likely to happen, I can honestly say that I have no clue. I think that it is as likely that JH sells the team as it is that he chooses to go full rebuild.

 

Fencesitters of the world, unite and take over.

[mvp 78]

It's a team that needs payroll reduced below 208 mill.

 

If they made the playoffs, they would still need to reduce payroll? Or just because they didn't make the playoffs.

 

Why would they sign Sale and Eovaldi last year if they wanted to be under the tax this year?

[Elktonnick]

It has declined marginally.

 

2017 4.45

2018 4.41

2019 4.38

 

I'll bet anything it's higher in 2020 than in 2019.

 

The highest contract for a pitcher just went from 217 mill to 324 mill.

 

And look at the arb raises Mookie and E-Rod are expected to get.

 

The younger players thing is being offset a lot by the higher arb salaries.

We are talking about the average salary of around 1000 ballplayers. The number high salaried players is more than offset by the younger players making major League teams every year.

The Union is upset by the fact that a few high salaried players are sucking up all the money. I do not think your opinion would calm their concerns. In any case this is not my opinion but rather what Union reps are telling Baseball writers.

[Jack Flap]

Why would they sign Sale and Eovaldi last year if they wanted to be under the tax this year?

 

That's the grand question, isn't it?