A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[moonslav59]

The next GM chapter begins.

 

Who will it be?

 

At least firing DD now gives us the time to choose from everyone available or coming available.

 

I hate that many of the deals are made during the playoffs, so actually not being in them, gives us more leeway.

 

Whoever we get, I hope he's an expert in farm building.

[S5Dewey]

The next GM chapter begins.

 

Who will it be?

 

At least firing DD now gives us the time to choose from everyone available or coming available.

 

I hate that many of the deals are made during the playoffs, so actually not being in them, gives us more leeway.

 

Whoever we get, I hope he's an expert in farm building.

 

I have to think that JH had a short list in mind even before the firing happened. JH doesn't seem like the kind of guy to implement a plan without Plans A, B, & C already in place.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have to think that JH had a short list in mind even before the firing happened. JH doesn't seem like the kind of guy to implement a plan without Plans A, B, & C already in place.

 

I agree completely here. While the sox have had a great GM, a build GM, and a win at all costs GM, the steady constant has been Henry. He is probably the best owner in baseball right now, and he knows who he wants.

[harmony]

The next GM chapter begins.

 

Who will it be?

 

At least firing DD now gives us the time to choose from everyone available or coming available.

 

I hate that many of the deals are made during the playoffs, so actually not being in them, gives us more leeway.

 

Whoever we get, I hope he's an expert in farm building.

Jerry Dipoto!

 

... who spent six weeks as an adviser with the Red Sox in 2015, hired six days before Dave Dombrowski came on board.

[moonslav59]

I have to think that JH had a short list in mind even before the firing happened. JH doesn't seem like the kind of guy to implement a plan without Plans A, B, & C already in place.

 

I agree. It might be a very short list- maybe even no list but just 1 guy.

 

I trust Henry.

[notin]

I agree. It might be a very short list- maybe even no list but just 1 guy.

 

I trust Henry.

 

Two guys.

 

I don't think anyone wants the dual role of President/GM on this team right now...

[jung]

There is the one guy Henry wants....Henry knows who that is. We don't know who that is. In all likelihood Henry still has a list of guys in case he can't get his top choice. Henry already had that happen to him once.

 

Henry knew he was going to let DD go. Even DD knew he was gone. Henry knew how and when he was going to do it. So its unreasonable to think Henry does not have a clear idea of where he wants to go next.

[notin]

The next GM chapter begins.

 

Who will it be?

 

At least firing DD now gives us the time to choose from everyone available or coming available.

 

I hate that many of the deals are made during the playoffs, so actually not being in them, gives us more leeway.

 

Whoever we get, I hope he's an expert in farm building.

 

We need a guy who can build the farm while fielding a competitive team. The one guy who has shown he can do that is Theo Epstein...

[jacksonianmarch]

We need a guy who can build the farm while fielding a competitive team. The one guy who has shown he can do that is Theo Epstein...

 

Yeah, but Epstein hit a dry spell in Chicago. They just promoted their only big prospect in Hoerner with not much behind him.

[notin]

Yeah, but Epstein hit a dry spell in Chicago. They just promoted their only big prospect in Hoerner with not much behind him.

 

I think he unloaded too much in the title run, but a Cubs title run on its own is an epic accomplishment, and he is still worshipped out here...

[jacksonianmarch]

The thing is, he didn’t. He still had a deadly farm yet it was the attempt to stay on top that got him. Jorge Soler has turned into a monster. He was dealt for Wade Davis. Eloy Jimenez has a full rookie season this year after moving for Quintana. Davis was good in CHC but Quintana has been middling.

[notin]

The thing is, he didn’t. He still had a deadly farm yet it was the attempt to stay on top that got him. Jorge Soler has turned into a monster. He was dealt for Wade Davis. Eloy Jimenez has a full rookie season this year after moving for Quintana. Davis was good in CHC but Quintana has been middling.

 

The biggest loss was trading Gleyber Torres for a rental closer.

 

Soler has been good at the plate, but his 116 OPS+ in KC is barely an improvement over his farm system replacement Kyle Schwarber (114). And while Soler might be the better defensive outfielder, it's not like KC is giving him a chance to show it in the 50 games per year he is playing out there.

 

They'll miss Eloy Jimenez, but outfield in Chicago is actually an area of depth. They sent Ian Happ to the minors this year because he had nowhere to play in the majors...

[moonslav59]

The thing is, he didn’t. He still had a deadly farm yet it was the attempt to stay on top that got him. Jorge Soler has turned into a monster. He was dealt for Wade Davis. Eloy Jimenez has a full rookie season this year after moving for Quintana. Davis was good in CHC but Quintana has been middling.

 

If you trade the farm, they don't count as being a strong farm.

 

Has Theo added top farm pieces after the Cubs started winning and got lower draft picks?

 

We need a GM who can draft well without a top 10 pick PLUS know how to develop pitchers while in the farm (or hire someone who can).

[jung]

No press conference today from Sox Exec Management which will leave Cora and the players answering questions.

 

I will say it again....John Henry is not just a bit miffed or a little disappointed. It appears he is really torqued off.

[moonslav59]

No press conference today from Sox Exec Management which will leave Cora and the players answering questions.

 

I will say it again....John Henry is not just a bit miffed or a little disappointed. It appears he is really torqued off.

 

When you outspend every other owner by more than $20M for 3 straight years, I'd expect more, too. The broken farm is the final straw.

 

3 division wins and a ring less than a year ago was not enough to save his job.

 

Ben had a worse track record but had a very strong farm.

 

That's the difference maker, to me.

 

If you are going to sell out the future for the now, I think Henry expected the "now" to last longer.

[notin]

When you outspend every other owner by more than $20M for 3 straight years, I'd expect more, too. The broken farm is the final straw.

 

3 division wins and a ring less than a year ago was not enough to save his job.

 

Ben had a worse track record but had a very strong farm.

 

That's the difference maker, to me.

 

If you are going to sell out the future for the now, I think Henry expected the "now" to last longer.

 

 

That would make sense to me.

 

Not to mention, he might not have wanted the "Now" to be extended for so long and so much money in case it wasn't as long as hoped for...

[jacksonianmarch]

When you outspend every other owner by more than $20M for 3 straight years, I'd expect more, too. The broken farm is the final straw.

 

3 division wins and a ring less than a year ago was not enough to save his job.

 

Ben had a worse track record but had a very strong farm.

 

That's the difference maker, to me.

 

If you are going to sell out the future for the now, I think Henry expected the "now" to last longer.

 

I think everyone expected the window to be longer. Heck, I am a yankees fan and I thought their window would last longer..

 

Here is the biggest issue that all sox fans should have with DD. Yes, he raped and pillaged, burned and salted the earth on the farm. But he added literally nobody of consequence beyond Casas. And Casas isn't a singular talent. He's a 1b who hits homers. He essentially avoided the IFA realm altogether despite having a robust program in both the DR and Venezuela. His drafts have been busts. He hasn't dealt for any minor league talent.

[notin]

I think everyone expected the window to be longer. Heck, I am a yankees fan and I thought their window would last longer..

 

Here is the biggest issue that all sox fans should have with DD. Yes, he raped and pillaged, burned and salted the earth on the farm. But he added literally nobody of consequence beyond Casas. And Casas isn't a singular talent. He's a 1b who hits homers. He essentially avoided the IFA realm altogether despite having a robust program in both the DR and Venezuela. His drafts have been busts. He hasn't dealt for any minor league talent.

 

And he likes to spit in the milk of schoolchildren...

[moonslav59]

I think everyone expected the window to be longer. Heck, I am a yankees fan and I thought their window would last longer..

 

Here is the biggest issue that all sox fans should have with DD. Yes, he raped and pillaged, burned and salted the earth on the farm. But he added literally nobody of consequence beyond Casas. And Casas isn't a singular talent. He's a 1b who hits homers. He essentially avoided the IFA realm altogether despite having a robust program in both the DR and Venezuela. His drafts have been busts. He hasn't dealt for any minor league talent.

 

In all fairness, he's drafted very low due to winning the division 3 times in a row. He's had some top picks and IFA signing get hurt or even die. That being said, GMs are judged by hindsight- righly or wrongly, and our farm is ranked last.

 

We used to do great with IFA, but the bonus pool money has hurt. That's not an excuse, because other winning GMs have found gems.

 

DD's drafts:

2016:

12th Groome- injured

51st Chatham- jury out- looking okay.

88th Shaun Anderson- traded for Nunez

118th- Dalbec- solid pick at that number.

1148th Shawaryn- meh.

 

2017 (lower picks begin)

24. Houck- jury out

63, Brannen- ugh

101. Netzer- ugh

131. Thompson- Ugh

161 Scherff- ugh

 

2018

26. Casas- Good

64 Decker- too early

100 Feltman- too early

130 Cottam- too early

160- T Ward- looking nice

190- Granberg- too early

 

2019 (DD's fault we were kocked down 10 slots)

43 Cannon

69 M Lugo

107 Zeferjahn

137 N Song

167 Groshans

(All too early)

 

Our past IFA signings include, HRam (who brought us Beckett & Lowell), Doubront, Okajima, Dice-K, Tazawa, Bogey, Montas, Iggy, Lin, Margot, Bautista, Devers, DHern, Moncada & Castillo.

 

Since 2016: Velazquez, Danny Diaz, Daniel Flores (died), A Flores, Eduardo Lopez & Juan Chacon.

 

 

 

 

[notin]

I

Since 2016: Velazquez, Danny Diaz, Daniel Flores (died), A Flores, Eduardo Lopez & Juan Chacon.

 

 

 

 

And Esteban Quiroz, who got us Colten Brewer...

[moonslav59]

And Esteban Quiroz, who got us Colten Brewer...

 

I missed the best one!

 

That pretty much sums it up, right?

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, one died and others underperformed. But he had nearly no later round guys pop. His IFA strategy was absolutely terrible and this past year he essentially didn’t go after any of the good talents. He never dealt for IfA money and heck, he never dealt away IFA money losing a chance at getting someone for it. He completely avoided the player development piece

[notin]

Yeah, one died and others underperformed. But he had nearly no later round guys pop. His IFA strategy was absolutely terrible and this past year he essentially didn’t go after any of the good talents. He never dealt for IfA money and heck, he never dealt away IFA money losing a chance at getting someone for it. He completely avoided the player development piece

 

I was annoyed when he avoided all those Braves’ prospects who were released back into the wild...

[moonslav59]

Yeah, one died and others underperformed. But he had nearly no later round guys pop. His IFA strategy was absolutely terrible and this past year he essentially didn’t go after any of the good talents. He never dealt for IfA money and heck, he never dealt away IFA money losing a chance at getting someone for it. He completely avoided the player development piece

 

Agreed. His IFA plan was to have no plan. The one that died was supposed to be real good, though.

 

That used to be our strength.

 

To me, DD is gone more for the farm than for missing the playoffs one time. (That or the being an A-hole part that is being reported now.)

[oldtimer]

Agreed. His IFA plan was to have no plan. The one that died was supposed to be real good, though.

 

That used to be our strength.

 

To me, DD is gone more for the farm than for missing the playoffs one time. (That or the being an A-hole part that is being reported now.)

 

DD should be remembered for both the good he achieved and for the terrible state he has left the team in. Lets learn from it. Money needs to be spent wisely and moves which decimate the farm will have repurcussions in following years. This game needs it stars and it also needs to have a constant flow of players coming from the farm or through low cost acquisitions. That balance is not easy to attain, but is easy to screw up. So instaed of blaming DD we should learn from it and proceed in a positive manner. We can remain somewhatt competitive while rebuilding to a team which competes at the highest level. Thats a positive view and can be accompliished. Those who stand in the way should be gone. Lead, follow but don't get in the way.

[jung]

Honestly, I have had just about all I can take of the heralding three division wins stuff. I could care less. They are not meaningful in the overall. The one division win that leads to a cleaner path to a WS.... that one means something. You can have the rest of them and relegate them to the value of having won the play-in game as a WC.

[Bellhorn04]

Honestly, I have had just about all I can take of the heralding three division wins stuff. I could care less. They are not meaningful in the overall. The one division win that leads to a cleaner path to a WS.... that one means something. You can have the rest of them and relegate them to the value of having won the play-in game as a WC.

 

Cleaner path to a WS...what does that mean? Last year we won 108 games but had to play the 2 toughest teams to get there.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[jung]

Cleaner path to a WS...what does that mean? Last year we won 108 games but had to play the 2 toughest teams to get there.

 

We had home field. You are not likely to avoid the toughest teams in the MLB post season any longer no matter what you do because "the toughest teams" will have what remains of the remnants of actual MLB level pitching. If you avoid the toughest teams in MLB post season play consider it an anomaly of epic proportions whereas avoiding them is often possible in the other major team sports. Is often done in the NHL, NBA and NFL.

 

Now said teams may have as much "lucked into" as planned to have what remains of MLB level pitching because MLB pitching right now is utter chaos, a complete cluster thanks to the machinations of the MLB itself. But those teams that make it as far as the DS will have a very respectable pitching asset whether its a pen or a rotation or a combination.

Edited September 10, 2019 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

We had home field. You are not likely to avoid the toughest teams in the MLB post season any longer no matter what you do because "the toughest teams" will have what remains of the remnants of actual MLB level pitching.

 

So just to clarify, you think winning the division is meaningless unless you have the best overall record and home field advantage?

[jung]

So just to clarify, you think winning the division is meaningless unless you have the best overall record and home field advantage?

 

That is not what I said. I said what I said which you quoted in your post reply.

 

Division wins simply are not worth the heraldry some of us put around them. I would be hard pressed to decide to even pennant them in my ballpark. All that pennant really says is that some team in your league was better than you were. I could give a flying f*** about being better than four other teams geographically collocated in my general vicinity and then getting dumbed on my ass before I could even get to the WS. Winning the ALCS of my league or winning the WS...that is something worthy of a pennant flying in my ballpark.

 

Less than that.....fans should enjoy fandom for fandom sake, enjoy baseball for baseball's sake and shut their mouths until they actually DO SOMETHING worth talking about and worthy of a pennant in their park.