Sale to IL with elbow injury

[moonslav59]

"The non cliff dwellers". If any normal person is reading this they must be thinking, 'What are these lunatics talking about?' LOL

 

Should I have called them "flat earthers?"

[moonslav59]

Not really. The fall off the cliff started with Sale pitching all but the last six weeks

 

Not really. The impending cliff was real even if Sale was on his way to the 2020 Cy Young Award.

[cp176]

"The non cliff dwellers". If any normal person is reading this they must be thinking, 'What are these lunatics talking about?' LOL

 

Yup that would be me = a non cliff dwelling kind of guy. I'm just one of the numb nut guys who doesn't, hasn't and will never believe in something as unnatural to me as the cliff theory that has been promoted so often here. All the cliff theory believers can have a laugh at the expense of people like me. But come on we are the flat earth believers and not one of us has the IQ to rival the incredible minds posting here. Just to show how brilliant I feel the level of intellect on here is, let me add that what I have said in this post should not be taken seriously. LOL

[notin]

Wrong. If he plays the whole season, he becomes a free agent.

 

It may have been a blunder to extend him because of his medical issues.

 

But when people say you should wait until the end of the season to extend him, they don't know what they're talking about.

 

The only way Sale signs an extension at the end of the season is if something like this happens. If the Sox wanted him back, they got him at the last legitimate opportunity...

[notin]

Should I have called them "flat earthers?"

 

Watch “Beyond the Curve” for a great documentary about Flat Earthers. Although admittedly the documentary does ignore the present state of the Sox farm...

[Kimmi]

Wrong. If he plays the whole season, he becomes a free agent.

 

It may have been a blunder to extend him because of his medical issues.

 

But when people say you should wait until the end of the season to extend him, they don't know what they're talking about.

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

If Sale had had a typical Chris Sale season, then walked as a free agent, there would be a lot of criticism about not extending him during preseason.

 

I don't recall very many people being upset about this extension when it happened.

[jad]

"The non cliff dwellers". If any normal person is reading this they must be thinking, 'What are these lunatics talking about?' LOL

 

I don't consider myself particularly normal, yet I too have no clue what they are talking about.

[moonslav59]

Yup that would be me = a non cliff dwelling kind of guy. I'm just one of the numb nut guys who doesn't, hasn't and will never believe in something as unnatural to me as the cliff theory that has been promoted so often here. All the cliff theory believers can have a laugh at the expense of people like me. But come on we are the flat earth believers and not one of us has the IQ to rival the incredible minds posting here. Just to show how brilliant I feel the level of intellect on here is, let me add that what I have said in this post should not be taken seriously. LOL

 

Good one, numb nuts!

 

Lol

 

😜

[jung]

Sale also contributed heavily in 2017 and has been a perennial Cy Young contender. I see no parallel between him and Steve Pearce.

 

What this all comes down to is the Sox evaluations of the health of Sale's arm. Those are certainly subject to scrutiny!

 

I didn't put the words in Henry's mouth him. Again, if they wanted to extend....then EXTEND....not five years on a guy that was clearly showing signs of wear especially into the rather obviously changing MLB dynamics effecting pitching (breaking down too often, throwing beyond their physical means and their technique, the Manfred Missile).

[Bellhorn04]

I didn't put the words in Henry's mouth him. Again, if they wanted to extend....then EXTEND....not five years on a guy that was clearly showing signs of wear especially into the rather obviously changing MLB dynamics effecting pitching (breaking down too often, throwing beyond their physical means and their technique, the Manfred Missile).

 

There's a legitimate argument to be made that they should have just let Sale walk. I get that.

[oldtimer]

Sale is extended and Price is with us for 2 more years. Both could be healthy and pitching at least fairly well next year. Lets wait and hear from the front office before going off into what if territory.

[notin]

Yup that would be me = a non cliff dwelling kind of guy. I'm just one of the numb nut guys who doesn't, hasn't and will never believe in something as unnatural to me as the cliff theory that has been promoted so often here. All the cliff theory believers can have a laugh at the expense of people like me. But come on we are the flat earth believers and not one of us has the IQ to rival the incredible minds posting here. Just to show how brilliant I feel the level of intellect on here is, let me add that what I have said in this post should not be taken seriously. LOL

 

 

It is very parallel to Flat Earth theory. Despite the mountains of evidence, some people just believe the Sox farm system is as good as any other team’s because, well, they want to.

 

The Sox farmsystem does suck. That doesn’t mean it has no Major Leaguers in it anywhere. But it does mean there are likely very few who will ever make an impact.

 

But we can all sit back and hope we have the next Aristides Aquino...

[FredLynn]

Let's take a breath here.

 

This isn't the end of the world, even if Sale's injury is the "worst case scenario". To put the best spin on it, it may be a blessing in disguise. If we lose Sale for 2020 he's still going to come back for 2021-2025. I now see a rebuild for 2020 & 2021, keeping Beni, Devers, Bogaerts & Vaz with everyone else being replaceable. It does solve our salary problems to some degree and it allows The Cliff Dwellers to say 'I told you so'.

 

2020 won't be much fun, especially with the non-trolls around reminding us how bad the team is but we can very well be ramping up again in 2021 and able to make a semi-serious run again in 2022 and being very good again in 2023-2025.

 

I agree with this assessment. And I do not think that DD is the right guy to rebuild our farm system. I don't think he has ever successfully done that. He is a GM who tends to destroy farm systems in order to win now. Nothing wrong with that, but he is the wrong guy for the job at hand.

[jung]

I agree with this assessment. And I do not think that DD is the right guy to rebuild our farm system. I don't think he has ever successfully done that. He is a GM who tends to destroy farm systems in order to win now. Nothing wrong with that, but he is the wrong guy for the job at hand.

 

Agreed. In baseball terms DD has aged before our very eyes. Time to go Dave.

 

Keep Cora, Ax Lavangie. Managing a pitching staff is extremely complicated now based on the direction MLB has taken. Even if pitching returns to a more traditional approach it will be years before this nonsense works its way through the system. Oh by the way, even if it does return, I don't want an ex-catcher as my pitching coach. That has worked all of one time that I can remember.

[harmony]

Sale is extended and Price is with us for 2 more years. Both could be healthy and pitching at least fairly well next year. Lets wait and hear from the front office before going off into what if territory.

David Price is signed for three more seasons for a total of $96 million.

[moonslav59]

I agree with this assessment. And I do not think that DD is the right guy to rebuild our farm system. I don't think he has ever successfully done that. He is a GM who tends to destroy farm systems in order to win now. Nothing wrong with that, but he is the wrong guy for the job at hand.

 

+100

[redsoxrules]

Wrong. If he plays the whole season, he becomes a free agent.

 

It may have been a blunder to extend him because of his medical issues.

 

But when people say you should wait until the end of the season to extend him, they don't know what they're talking about.

 

When someone comes off an injury like he did last year, it's a huge gamble to give him that extension. Considering that, yes it was big mistake to extend him without having him see how he made out this year coming off injury. If he had no injuries last year, then I would of had no problem extending as you can't foresee and arm injury.

[moonslav59]

When someone comes off an injury like he did last year, it's a huge gamble to give him that extension. Considering that, yes it was big mistake to extend him without having him see how he made out this year coming off injury. If he had no injuries last year, then I would of had no problem extending as you can't foresee and arm injury.

 

The flip side of the gamble was that he gets more money and more years had he been healthy last year.

 

He gets way more money next year had he pitched well this year.

 

We gambled and most likely lost.

[dgalehouse]

The flip side of the gamble was that he gets more money and more years had he been healthy last year.

 

He gets way more money next year had he pitched well this year.

 

We gambled and most likely lost.

 

Every free agent signing is a gamble , especially pitchers . But if you don't take the chance , you won't get the top tier players . No guts, no glory .

[Fan_since_Boggs]

If Sale is gone and the Red Sox enter into a rebuild, the Red Sox should move Price in the offseason. The Red Sox would have to kick in around 36m to move Price, maybe even more? How about 42m? That would allow the acquiring team to pay Price 18m over the next 3 seasons.

 

The more the Red Sox pay down Price's contract, the better prospect they can get for him. And if the Red Sox do a rebuild, they will fall under the luxury tax anyway.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

There were plenty of people who were shocked and critical of the Red Sox decision to resign Sale when they did. There were red flags last season, the injury, the declining velocity. To such skeptics, it made sense to let the season play out and see if Sale could stay healthy and regain his lost velocity. That didn't happen, and now this. Edited August 18, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[fxkatt]

Every free agent signing is a gamble , especially pitchers . But if you don't take the chance , you won't get the top tier players . No guts, no glory .

 

Tampa Bay has a 54 million payroll. I doubt Oakland's is much higher, and both compete almost every year. And TB has gone most of this season with only two starting pitchers.

[fxkatt]

It's not only that many on this forum disliked the Sale contract, but that many baseball writers and other experts were pretty shocked by it. I said long before it that 3 years at 75 mill wd be my offer. But if we had signed no extension, that would have been fine with me. My sense was that the 5-man rotation is too much work for him--at some point each season he would break down. (the only out to this wd be if he found a new pitching style, which he still might do)

[jacksonianmarch]

If Sale is gone and the Red Sox enter into a rebuild, the Red Sox should move Price in the offseason. The Red Sox would have to kick in around 36m to move Price, maybe even more? How about 42m? That would allow the acquiring team to pay Price 18m over the next 3 seasons.

 

The more the Red Sox pay down Price's contract, the better prospect they can get for him. And if the Red Sox do a rebuild, they will fall under the luxury tax anyway.

 

In order to rid yourself of Price and get something of value, you’d need to eat the contract down to $10 mil per for 3 yrs (Sonny Gray extension). That’s eating $63 mil. The Sox could do it, but at that rate, you’re better off hoping he pitches really well to start 2020 and try to pawn him off at the deadline. He’s hurt right now and was scuffling prior. His worth is low

[harmony]

If Sale is gone and the Red Sox enter into a rebuild, the Red Sox should move Price in the offseason. The Red Sox would have to kick in around 36m to move Price, maybe even more? How about 42m? That would allow the acquiring team to pay Price 18m over the next 3 seasons.

 

The more the Red Sox pay down Price's contract, the better prospect they can get for him. And if the Red Sox do a rebuild, they will fall under the luxury tax anyway.

According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, Red Sox lefthander David Price is owed $96 million over the next three seasons:

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/

 

One website lists Price with a negative value of $44.8 million:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/

 

In other words, if that value is accurate, the Red Sox would need to pay about $45 million to get little in return.

[Jasonbay44]

Elbow injuries and meeting with James Andrews are very serious causes for concern.

[dgalehouse]

Tampa Bay has a 54 million payroll. I doubt Oakland's is much higher, and both compete almost every year. And TB has gone most of this season with only two starting pitchers.

 

I will give the A's and Rays a lot of credit . But the Rays have never won a championship , and the A's have not won one since their glory days when they had big time players . They are not the franchises that you want to model yourself after . This is not fantasy baseball . It's big business , and money talks .

[notin]

I will give the A's and Rays a lot of credit . But the Rays have never won a championship , and the A's have not won one since their glory days when they had big time players . They are not the franchises that you want to model yourself after . This is not fantasy baseball . It's big business , and money talks .

 

The Dodgers spend a to of money and haven’t won one since before the A’s last title and before Tampa came into existence...

[moonslav59]

Every free agent signing is a gamble , especially pitchers . But if you don't take the chance , you won't get the top tier players . No guts, no glory .

 

Exactly.

 

DD and Henry knew the risks, and they knew an injury risk was greater with Sale than most, but I think they liked the lower years and dollars than what most expected, and that was the trade off.

[moonslav59]

If Sale is gone and the Red Sox enter into a rebuild, the Red Sox should move Price in the offseason. The Red Sox would have to kick in around 36m to move Price, maybe even more? How about 42m? That would allow the acquiring team to pay Price 18m over the next 3 seasons.

 

The more the Red Sox pay down Price's contract, the better prospect they can get for him. And if the Red Sox do a rebuild, they will fall under the luxury tax anyway.

 

I think Price would get way more than $18M/3, if he was a FA this winter.