A Realistic View at 2019: Part II

[Key2Delock]

Over/Under on number of games left in which the Red Sox starter will pitch more than four innings? In only four of the ten games this month has a Red Sox starter lasted more than four innings (Rodriguez twice and Eovaldi twice, including one when Eovaldi went only four-and-a-third). With 16 games left, unless they’re being shut down, Rodriguez and Eovaldi each could get three more starts. Should we expect most of the remaining Red Sox games to be "bullpen games"?

[Key2Delock]

Would tanking for a better draft position in 2020 be of any benefit?

 

Because the Red Sox finished with MLB's best record in 2018 and they were over the salary cap for the year, they were penalized in the 2019 Draft, so that their first pick didn't occur until the 43rd overall pick.

 

With 16 games left to play and on a five-game losing streak to drop them to 76-70 for the season, the Red Sox now are as close to fourth place in the division as they are to first place (19 games). Unless they go on a long winning streak and one of the teams ahead of them in the American League fades, it’s looking unlikely that they could finish with a better record than any of the six teams in the American League now ahead of them. They’re three-and-a-half games ahead of Texas for the seventh best record in the American League and they’ve got three games at Texas before returning home to close the season with three against Baltimore.

 

Twelve teams in MLB currently have better records than the Red Sox. The Mets (75-70), Phillies (75-70) and Rangers (73-74) are within striking distance of finishing with a better record than the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't "tank," but I'd play every borderline 2020 player we can to possibly gain insights.

[oldtimer]

I wouldn't "tank," but I'd play every borderline 2020 player we can to possibly gain insights.

 

That has been my POV for some time. Maybe some of those would liven things up and show some promise. It can't hurt at this point.

[notin]

Would tanking for a better draft position in 2020 be of any benefit?

 

Because the Red Sox finished with MLB's best record in 2018 and they were over the salary cap for the year, they were penalized in the 2019 Draft, so that their first pick didn't occur until the 43rd overall pick.

 

With 16 games left to play and on a five-game losing streak to drop them to 76-70 for the season, the Red Sox now are as close to fourth place in the division as they are to first place (19 games). Unless they go on a long winning streak and one of the teams ahead of them in the American League fades, it’s looking unlikely that they could finish with a better record than any of the six teams in the American League now ahead of them. They’re three-and-a-half games ahead of Texas for the seventh best record in the American League and they’ve got three games at Texas before returning home to close the season with three against Baltimore.

 

Twelve teams in MLB currently have better records than the Red Sox. The Mets (75-70), Phillies (75-70) and Rangers (73-74) are within striking distance of finishing with a better record than the Red Sox.

 

No benefit.

 

Tanking might get you a better draft pick, but it's not like you can guarantee your way into a top 5 pick, and the Sox have too many topflight players who, while underperforming, still aren't horrible.

 

And why would the Sox tank and waste another year of Bogaerts, Devers, and Benintendi? To get a better player who might not see MLB for 4 years?

 

If the Sox want to rebuild the farm and get some cheap MLB help (which is relly the goal here), the best way is to do it via trade, where you can get players closer to MLB. The Sox have to figure out who their best trade candidates are and whether or not anything beneficial can be acquired for them. My thoughts are Betts and Barnes right now, although I am not really sure how much other teams think of Barnes at this point...

[S5Dewey]

No benefit.

 

Tanking might get you a better draft pick, but it's not like you can guarantee your way into a top 5 pick, and the Sox have too many topflight players who, while underperforming, still aren't horrible.

 

And why would the Sox tank and waste another year of Bogaerts, Devers, and Benintendi? To get a better player who might not see MLB for 4 years?

 

Besides that, it's unethical.

 

Some of us have already complained about how teams are tanking and would like to see some remedy like a much higher minimum wage for players. How can we complain about that, then suggest the Sox do the same thing?

[notin]

Besides that, it's unethical.

 

Some of us have already complained about how teams are tanking and would like to see some remedy like a much higher minimum wage for players. How can we complain about that, then suggest the Sox do the same thing?

 

Not to mention, while this team is disappointing, that's really all it is. The Red Sox are not a 60 win team and shouldn't try to become one. Especially not if the benefit of doing so is getting a player who might help in 2023...

[jung]

Tomase raising the rather ugly point that the Sox being a business not entirely built around fielding a championship calibre team every year really may be able to make some sense out of resetting entirely (meaning finally getting back to no penalties as quickly as they reasonably can).

 

That may make some sense as ugly as it might be. Their ratings are already taking a beating for one. For another, a good bit of that crowd at Fenway is not really there for the quality of the baseball as much as they are there for the aviance of the place, the history of Fenway, the carnival out front, a night of entertainment...in this case sports entertainment etc.

 

Does not mean they could get away with being the Baltimore Orioles for even a nanosecond. But they could get away with being much less than they are at much less salary and be just fine working up to another championship run downstream.

[dgalehouse]

The best way to win a championship is to consistently make the playoffs . The way to consistently make the playoffs is to consistently have a very good team . Making the playoffs does not guarantee a championship , but it is always a necessary first step.

[dgalehouse]

I wouldn't "tank," but I'd play every borderline 2020 player we can to possibly gain insights.

 

We have had all season to evaluate these borderline guys in the minors . I don't know what more insight can be had by watching them play a few games in the bigs . Tanking is for the losers . I would hate to see the Red Sox sink that low.

[moonslav59]

We have had all season to evaluate these borderline guys in the minors . I don't know what more insight can be had by watching them play a few games in the bigs . Tanking is for the losers . I would hate to see the Red Sox sink that low.

 

Sometimes players who look "meh" in the minors surprise in the majors.

 

I do think watching them play in the bigs adds a little (not a lot) of insight.

 

It's no biggie. Cora's already done it to a large extent.

[moonslav59]

Tomase raising the rather ugly point that the Sox being a business not entirely built around fielding a championship calibre team every year really may be able to make some sense out of resetting entirely (meaning finally getting back to no penalties as quickly as they reasonably can).

 

That may make some sense as ugly as it might be. Their ratings are already taking a beating for one. For another, a good bit of that crowd at Fenway is not really there for the quality of the baseball as much as they are there for the aviance of the place, the history of Fenway, the carnival out front, a night of entertainment...in this case sports entertainment etc.

 

Does not mean they could get away with being the Baltimore Orioles for even a nanosecond. But they could get away with being much less than they are at much less salary and be just fine working up to another championship run downstream.

 

We don't need to reset to have no draft penalties. Just stay under the $40M over line.

[jung]

The best way to win a championship is to consistently make the playoffs . The way to consistently make the playoffs is to consistently have a very good team . Making the playoffs does not guarantee a championship , but it is always a necessary first step.

 

Any well constructed team at or near the max no penalty spending limit should cake walk to the best 5 teams in one of the two leagues AND have a farm system given the crap that passes for MLB teams these days. That is not a championship run however. Its a shot at a championship run. I doubt we can expect that of this franchise until they have reassembled some semblance of a complete organization with at least a reasonable farm system. It does not help that the Sox have stuck themselves behind the exact eight ball they were stuck behind with the Crawford contract which John Henry extricated the franchise from, not Cherries who just did the paperwork.

 

Also not helpful, MLB has made a complete shambles of MLB pitching which is now from a planning perspective, utter chaos. Good luck planning your way around that. Now we not only have Openers, but "Featured" pitchers which is wholly disappointing as it suggests a continuation of a FAILED business approach to baseball generally and pitching in particular.

 

The NESN talent team is in turmoil as there is no real replacement for Jerry and their ratings are taking a beating even WITH Jerry. I have no idea where the production team is as this IS the production team that thought Dan Orsillo had gotten too big for his bridges and decided he was not toeing the Fenway Group messaging mantras to their satisfaction giving us OB. The more I see, the more I am convinced they are actually lucky OB was there to bring in.

 

We don't at this particular instant have a Pres of Baseball Ops and won't have a clue where Henry wants to go until one is named. That is such a jumbled mess that we have the "four horseman of the acropolis" now in charge. We thought Closer by committee was a bad idea.

 

Two guys that have known each other for decades could not leave an exec level meeting on good enough terms to plan out a more sensible, sane way out of the particular mess they were in. Question for John Henry. Were you not prepared for what DD had in mind on that fateful night? Frankly JOHN, if you did not know that you could be left in the spot you were in that night, that is as bad is DD not knowing that his baseball team would quit on him when publicly challenged at the Trade Deadline. If you were not prepared for that meeting, avoid the guy for a day. What is this, Romper Room for business execs? My God I have grown to expect Romper Room in the clubhouse.

 

If you DID know what was afoot then take it head on JOHN....not muddling around looking like you are in the dark with your dick in your hand or in a bedmate's ass more likely.

 

But this is supposed to be the age of real business management in baseball, spreadsheets and all that crap with an owner who is .......a successful Financial Wealth Manager and we get Romper Room???? Yawkey could have given us Romper Room. Harrington could have given us Romper Room. I thought we could do at least a little better than that in 2019 with John Henry.....but NOOOOOO! Maybe John is just tired of the whole damned thing. That would not surprise me either.

Edited September 12, 2019 by jung

[jung]

We don't need to reset to have no draft penalties. Just stay under the $40M over line.

 

 

Tomase's point is that Henry might what to get out from under the financial penalty scenario. I can have some empathy for that view. A business that accepts financial penalties on an ongoing basis is like a business that produces a product accepting unreasonable levels of waste and thinking that is just fine. Its not just fine. Its bad business. We are being beaten senseless by teams with half or less our budgets and without the "potential" revenue streams that we have. How do you think that tastes to a businessman?

 

Waste is death to a business and right now the unusual business asset that Fenway Park, NESN , the value of Fenway Group as an asset and that the legendary Sox fanbase represent are being wasted.

Edited September 12, 2019 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Tomase's point is that Henry might what to get out from under the financial penalty scenario. I can have some empathy for that view. A business that accepts financial penalties on an ongoing basis is like a business that produces a product accepting unreasonable levels of waste and thinking that is just fine. Its not just fine. Its bad business. We are being beaten senseless by teams with half or less our budgets and without the "potential" revenue streams that we have. How do you think that tastes to a businessman?

 

Waste is death to a business and right now the unusual business asset that Fenway Park, NESN , the value of Fenway Group as an asset and that the legendary Sox fanbase represent are being wasted.

 

John Henry and fellow owners can sell the team right now for a profit of about 2.5 billion on their original investment.

 

I don't think he's freaking out about a few million in payroll luxury tax.

[jung]

Oh and before I forget, the current CBA expires at the end of the 2021 season which is both too close and too far away for everybody with an actual dog in the fight. So close you can smell the possibility of another work stoppage which this bunch is just stupid enough to let happen. So far away that given the mess MLB has gotten itself into you have to wonder if the dikes won't start to give way before they get there.

[jung]

John Henry and fellow owners can sell the team right now for a profit of about 2.5 billion on their original investment.

 

I don't think he's freaking out about a few million in payroll luxury tax.

 

 

And sell it he might.

 

Freaking out is not a relevant term for a businessman who wants a business to run like a business. Anybody that thinks printing money into a fan feeding a furnace raises a concern for a businessman at a level far below "freaking out" but far above just taking it needs to think again.

[moonslav59]

Tomase's point is that Henry might what to get out from under the financial penalty scenario. I can have some empathy for that view. A business that accepts financial penalties on an ongoing basis is like a business that produces a product accepting unreasonable levels of waste and thinking that is just fine. Its not just fine. Its bad business. We are being beaten senseless by teams with half or less our budgets and without the "potential" revenue streams that we have. How do you think that tastes to a businessman?

 

Waste is death to a business and right now the unusual business asset that Fenway Park, NESN , the value of Fenway Group as an asset and that the legendary Sox fanbase represent are being wasted.

 

I'd like to see a reset, myself.

 

1) It will lessen any future penalties for going over the limit in future years.

2) It helps keep other fans from saying we outspend everyone else and should win (or "we bought a ring.")

3) We need to get some better draft picks AND do well with them.

 

[dgalehouse]

Any well constructed team at or near the max no penalty spending limit should cake walk to the best 5 teams in one of the two leagues AND have a farm system given the crap that passes for MLB teams these days. That is not a championship run however. Its a shot at a championship run. I doubt we can expect that of this franchise until they have reassembled some semblance of a complete organization with at least a reasonable farm system. It does not help that the Sox have stuck themselves behind the exact eight ball they were stuck behind with the Crawford contract which John Henry extricated the franchise from, not Cherries who just did the paperwork.

 

Also not helpful, MLB has made a complete shambles of MLB pitching which is now from a planning perspective, utter chaos. Good luck planning your way around that. Now we not only have Openers, but "Featured" pitchers which is wholly disappointing as it suggests a continuation of a FAILED business approach to baseball generally and pitching in particular.

 

The NESN talent team is in turmoil as there is no real replacement for Jerry and their ratings are taking a beating even WITH Jerry. I have no idea where the production team is as this IS the production team that thought Dan Orsillo had gotten too big for his bridges and decided he was not toeing the Fenway Group messaging mantras to their satisfaction giving us OB. The more I see, the more I am convinced they are actually lucky OB was there to bring in.

 

We don't at this particular instant have a Pres of Baseball Ops and won't have a clue where Henry wants to go until one is named. That is such a jumbled mess that we have the "four horseman of the acropolis" now in charge. We thought Closer by committee was a bad idea.

 

Two guys that have known each other for decades could not leave an exec level meeting on good enough terms to plan out a more sensible, sane way out of the particular mess they were in. Question for John Henry. Were you not prepared for what DD had in mind on that fateful night? Frankly JOHN, if you did not know that you could be left in the spot you were in that night, that is as bad is DD not knowing that his baseball team would quit on him when publicly challenged at the Trade Deadline. If you were not prepared for that meeting, avoid the guy for a day. What is this, Romper Room for business execs? My God I have grown to expect Romper Room in the clubhouse.

 

If you DID know what was afoot then take it head on JOHN....not muddling around looking like you are in the dark with your dick in your hand or in a bedmate's ass more likely.

 

But this is supposed to be the age of real business management in baseball, spreadsheets and all that crap with an owner who is .......a successful Financial Wealth Manager and we get Romper Room???? Yawkey could have given us Romper Room. Harrington could have given us Romper Room. I thought we could do at least a little better than that in 2019 with John Henry.....but NOOOOOO! Maybe John is just tired of the whole damned thing. That would not surprise me either.

 

I have heard most of the announcers in MLB . To me , Dave O'Brien is one of the worst . He is incredibly boring and repetitive . We all love Jerry , but he is kind of like the pitcher who has lost something off the fastball and is trying to get by without it . Even the uninhibited Eck looks like he has been told to be careful what he says . Having said that , I don't think the NESN ratings depend all that much on the announcers . When the team plays poorly , there will be fewer people tuning in and more empty seats at Fenway .

[Slasher9]

bring back Don!!!!

(i cant stand D obrien).

[Bellhorn04]

Everybody wants to get rid of somebody LOL

[Slasher9]

Everybody wants to get rid of somebody LOL

 

Fire Dave Obrien!

[notin]

Fire Dave Obrien!

 

Fire Notin!!

[cp176]

Fire Notin!!

 

!!!...!!!

 

Just kidding notin...

[notin]

!!!...!!!

 

Just kidding notin...

 

Maybe I wasn’t;)

[notin]

So Bogaerts and Devers are the first Sox teammates with 50 doubles.

 

If Benintendi hits one more double, will the Sox be the first team ever with 4 players with 40 doubles?

[moonslav59]

So Bogaerts and Devers are the first Sox teammates with 50 doubles.

 

If Benintendi hits one more double, will the Sox be the first team ever with 4 players with 40 doubles?

 

How about 2B+3B?

 

54 Devers

50 Bogey

45 Betts

44 Beni

35 JD

 

[oldtimer]

How about 2B+3B?

 

54 Devers

50 Bogey

45 Betts

44 Beni

35 JD

 

 

Beni had a lot but got himself into another slump

[notin]

How about 2B+3B?

 

54 Devers

50 Bogey

45 Betts

44 Beni

35 JD

 

 

No idea. Just wondering if any team has had 4 players with 40 doubles...

[moonslav59]

How about 2B+3B?

 

54 Devers

50 Bogey

45 Betts

44 Beni

35 JD

 

 

How about XBHs:

83 Devers

81 Bogey

73 Betts

70 JD

57 Beni

 

TBs

328 Devers

313 Bogey

304 JD

302 Betts

 

226 Beni

202 Vaz

 

181 JBJ

154 Chavis (382 PAs)

123 Moreland (286 PAs)