The annual Jackie Bradley Jr thread (2019 Edition)

[moonslav59]

How about Freddy Lynn ???

 

Very close, and I mentioned him on another thread.

 

Lynn was fantastic and "elite" on defense. He blew JBJ away on offense.

 

I would not argue with anyone who says Lynn was better.

 

(I do think JBJ makes many plays look much easier than they really are, and that hurts is metrics. Fred was a bit reckless- in a good way- and both were clearly elite defenders.

[moonslav59]

And it’s possibly some of those 10-60% chances that Betts is taking and Avisail Garcia isn’t...

 

Yes, this methodology is flawed, but it does show they are pretty close, which is what my eye test supports, as well.

 

There's no way anyone can know for certain who is the best defensive CF'er in MLB, but most, if not all, experts would put these two int heir top 4-5.

[notin]

Very close, and I mentioned him on another thread.

 

Lynn was fantastic and "elite" on defense. He blew JBJ away on offense.

 

I would not argue with anyone who says Lynn was better.

 

(I do think JBJ makes many plays look much easier than they really are, and that hurts is metrics. Fred was a bit reckless- in a good way- and both were clearly elite defenders.

 

I don’t think JBJ making plays look easier impacts his metrics. I suspect those degrees of difficulty are more cold and concrete than that...

[Larry33]

Pillar is a worse hitter than JBJ.

 

Stats prove otherwise Pillar career avg .258 vs .234 avg for Bradley.

[notin]

Stats prove otherwise Pillar career avg .258 vs .234 avg for Bradley.

 

 

Batting average? The stat that says singles and home runs are equal?

 

At least look at OPS (Bradley .711 / Pillar .690)

[Bellhorn04]

Stats prove otherwise Pillar career avg .258 vs .234 avg for Bradley.

 

Batting avg., seriously?

[Larry33]

JBJ is a better defender than Lynn was (and Lynn was good). Lynn was obviously the better all-around player.

 

4 GG vs 1GG there's could be a good debate on that issue.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think JBJ making plays look easier impacts his metrics. I suspect those degrees of difficulty are more cold and concrete than that...

 

I feel there is some degree of subjectivity when the place a ball hit inot the 10%, 10-40%, 40-60% or whatever other categories they use. I remember that play JBJ made that robbed a HR in the triangle. It looked like a 0% play--maybe 1-10%, but I think I recall, they called it "routine". (I could be wrong.)

[moonslav59]

4 GG vs 1GG there's could be a good debate on that issue.

 

GG's are largely political, but again, I have no beef with anyone who says Lynn was better, defensively.

Edited May 8, 2019 by moonslav59

[Slasher9]

4 GG vs 1GG there's could be a good debate on that issue.

lolz.

do you think jeter deserved his 5 GG?

how about Palmiero getting one when he DH'd in 128 games?

[Slasher9]

here is all you need to know about GG:

2004: -0.3 dWar = gg

2005: -1.8 dWar = gg #2

2006: -0.7 dWar = gg #3

2010: 0.0 dWar = gg #5

 

joke.

[moonslav59]

do you think jeter deserved his 5 GG?

 

Don't get me started.

 

Jeter was one of the very worst full-time fielding SS's of his era.

 

DRS shows him as the worst.

 

UZR/150 as bottom 3-4.

 

He and Palmeiro are two reasons I stopped paying attention to awards, and yes, that means maybe JBJ didn't deserve his.

 

(Betts did.)

[Larry33]

Batting average? The stat that says singles and home runs are equal?

 

At least look at OPS (Bradley .711 / Pillar .690)

 

Tell us the difference between a 2 run scoring single and a 2 run homer. The guy with higher average but the ball in play more often which means better chance to advance runners and score runs the guy with the lower avg doesn't the ball in play and leave runner stranded on base. How many runner has JBJ left on base way too many for anybody's liking.

[Larry33]

Batting avg., seriously?

 

Seriously you'd rather have someone with a .230 avg vs a .300 hitter come to the plate in crucial situation with the game on the line. If homeruns were so important in a game how come practically every team that lead the league in HRs didn't win the WS. The game hasn't changed the team that scores the most runs win whether it's by singles, doubles, triples or HR and even bunting or stealing home. So your philosophy is the guy that hits the most HR should win the league MVP according to you he's the better player irregardless.

[Larry33]

lolz.

do you think jeter deserved his 5 GG?

how about Palmiero getting one when he DH'd in 128 games?

 

GG and CY are pick the BBWA which some are dummy more less a popularity contest on who's who in baseball. Corey Kluber said it best for the 2016 CY it's not that Porcello didn't deserve the award it's just that Verlander deserve it more.

[Slasher9]

GG and CY are pick the BBWA which some are dummy more less a popularity contest on who's who in baseball. Corey Kluber said it best for the 2016 CY it's not that Porcello didn't deserve the award it's just that Verlander deserve it more.

 

right.

so who do you think should be playing CF for the Sawx?

[notin]

GG and CY are pick the BBWA which some are dummy more less a popularity contest on who's who in baseball. Corey Kluber said it best for the 2016 CY it's not that Porcello didn't deserve the award it's just that Verlander deserve it more.

 

 

Gold Gloves are NOT voted for by the BBWAA. The coaches and managers in each league do the voting, and cannot vote for their own players...

[notin]

right.

so who do you think should be playing CF for the Sawx?

 

 

I like Bradley and have been pro-Bradley in these debates for, well, all of them.

 

But now I’m starting to wonder. Is Bradley necessary when you have a smaller CF and you have Betts in RF already? It seems like his abilities might actually be being underutilized.

[moonslav59]

Seriously you'd rather have someone with a .230 avg vs a .300 hitter come to the plate in crucial situation with the game on the line. If homeruns were so important in a game how come practically every team that lead the league in HRs didn't win the WS. The game hasn't changed the team that scores the most runs win whether it's by singles, doubles, triples or HR and even bunting or stealing home. So your philosophy is the guy that hits the most HR should win the league MVP according to you he's the better player irregardless.

 

OBP + SLG% (which both are heavily influenced by hits per AB or PA) are way more important than BA.

 

You may be the only person in the world who disagrees.

[moonslav59]

Seriously you'd rather have someone with a .230 avg vs a .300 hitter come to the plate in crucial situation with the game on the line. If homeruns were so important in a game how come practically every team that lead the league in HRs didn't win the WS. The game hasn't changed the team that scores the most runs win whether it's by singles, doubles, triples or HR and even bunting or stealing home. So your philosophy is the guy that hits the most HR should win the league MVP according to you he's the better player irregardless.

 

How many times does the team with the highest BA win it all?

 

I wasn't aware KK hits .300, so where did that number come from?

 

BBs, HRs, 2B and 3Bs should be a factor: not the top one, but certainly BA alone is a poor stat to choose- unless you are biased against JBJ.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Seriously you'd rather have someone with a .230 avg vs a .300 hitter come to the plate in crucial situation with the game on the line. If homeruns were so important in a game how come practically every team that lead the league in HRs didn't win the WS. The game hasn't changed the team that scores the most runs win whether it's by singles, doubles, triples or HR and even bunting or stealing home. So your philosophy is the guy that hits the most HR should win the league MVP according to you he's the better player irregardless.

 

I said no such thing. You're trolling.

[notin]

Tell us the difference between a 2 run scoring single and a 2 run homer. The guy with higher average but the ball in play more often which means better chance to advance runners and score runs the guy with the lower avg doesn't the ball in play and leave runner stranded on base. How many runner has JBJ left on base way too many for anybody's liking.

 

A 2-run single requires help from 2 other hitters capable of getting into scoring position. A 2 run home run just needs one man on any base.

 

A higher batting average does NOT mean you put the ball in play more often. Betts and Martinez finished 1 and 2 in batting average last year, yet each put the ball in play less often than Yangervis Solarte, whose batting average was among the worst in MLB...

[notin]

Seriously you'd rather have someone with a .230 avg vs a .300 hitter come to the plate in crucial situation with the game on the line. If homeruns were so important in a game how come practically every team that lead the league in HRs didn't win the WS. The game hasn't changed the team that scores the most runs win whether it's by singles, doubles, triples or HR and even bunting or stealing home. So your philosophy is the guy that hits the most HR should win the league MVP according to you he's the better player irregardless.

 

So are you saying the team with the highest batting average wins the World Series? Just about every Red Sox team from 1977 to 1990 might disagree there.

 

And while no one said the most HRs should win MVP, are you correcting that with saying the award needs to go to the highest batting average?

 

Do you even know what batting average really represents?

[moonslav59]

I said no such thing. You're trolling.

 

This guy is as bad as the last guy I put on ignore. He keeps inventing positions to argue against.

 

I'm putting him on ignore, now.

[SCM33]

GG's are largely political, but again, I have no beef with anyone who says Lynn was better.

 

You shouldnt.

 

Lynn was close to a HOF career.

 

Bradley sucks.

[notin]

 

Lynn was close to a HOF career.

 

Define “close”.

 

I don’t think he was all that close...

[illinoisredsox]

Define “close”.

 

I don’t think he was all that close...

 

Had he maintained the numbers he put up in Boston, he would have been in HOF conversation. He didn’t once he left and I agree, he really wasn’t that close all things considered.

[moonslav59]

Had he maintained the numbers he put up in Boston, he would have been in HOF conversation. He didn’t once he left and I agree, he really wasn’t that close all things considered.

 

He did have an .844 OPS for a 5 year stretch with the Angels and O's, but injuries and a few sub .700 years really hurt.

[SCM33]

Define “close”.

 

I don’t think he was all that close...

 

Rookie of the year

9X all star

1X MVP

4X Gold Glove

Won a Batting title

 

Most of that before he was 28 years old, before he permanently ruined his career with an injury at 29 years old.

[a700hitter]

Rookie of the year

9X all star

1X MVP

4X Gold Glove

Won a Batting title

 

Most of that before he was 28 years old, before he permanently ruined his career with an injury at 29 years old.

Some might argue with you about the definition of "close" and cite career stats or advanced career stats, but I think that it is indisputable that he was a hall of fame caliber player for a large chunk of his career when he was healthy. He made 9 All Star teams which represents almost every one the seasons when he was a healthy full time player. Harold Baines by comparison made 6 All Star teams in 22 seasons. Lynn was the far superior player in every aspect of the game.