Blake Swihart

[Slasher9]

he's a terrible catcher defensively and is just as terrible with a bat in his hands. would it be nice if he turned into Pudge? sure.

should we expect this to happen? negative.

[moonslav59]

Its a reflection of the fact that management had decided that Leon and Vasquez were going to be the catchers in the past. Its hard to really know if you are comfortable with someone else until you actually try it. You never know if you will like chocolate until you try it, do you.

Look, I am not arguing that Leon was not a good defensive catcher that most if not all of the staff was comfortable with. What I am saying is that that fact does not exclude the possibility that they will also all be comfortable with Swihart catching. Of course, we will never know more than likely because no pitcher is going to throw his catcher under the bus. What I object to is the illogical arguement used by Harmony that the Sox staff likes Leon and therefore is uncomfortable with Swihart. Perhaps they are MORE comfortable with Leon (maybe because he is familiar to them) than Swihart; I could almost buy that. Lets see what the comments are as the season rolls on.....if there are issues with Swihart's defense, pitch framing, or game calling.

 

I get your point, and I have never denied pitchers can become more or as comfortable with Vaz or Swihart. My concern has always been how long the learning curve might be, and if they ever reach the same level.

 

We chose the unknown over the known, and I get the argument about upside potential.

[moonslav59]

Blake Swihart has appeared as a catcher in 121 MLB games (and in 342 minor league games). Evaluators have an idea whether the chocolate is to their liking.

 

He can get better. The catching position probably takes the longest to fully master.

 

Let's see what happens.

[Slasher9]

 

We chose the unknown over the known,

 

the rub is....we already know what the potential is of Sandy catching. it's a parade.

of course that doesn't make it automatic but we do KNOW it CAN happen.....

[harmony]

He can get better. The catching position probably takes the longest to fully master.

 

Let's see what happens.

Blake Swihart is entering his eighth or ninth professional season as a catcher.

[notin]

Blake Swihart is entering his eighth or ninth professional season as a catcher.

 

The Mariners’ backup catcher is entering his 10th professional season as a catcher and is on an MLB roster heading into April for the first time. As he has actually hit fairly well in the minors, one can assume his defense has been a big factor in spending 9 seasons there. Do you think Freitas will improve at all?

[moonslav59]

Blake Swihart is entering his eighth or ninth professional season as a catcher.

 

It took VTek 7-8 years to get good on offense and defense. It's not unheard of, especially for someone who has been hurt and spent time learning other positions or riding the bench.

 

I have my doubts, for sure, but I'm holding out hope.

[Bellhorn04]

the rub is....we already know what the potential is of Sandy catching. it's a parade.

of course that doesn't make it automatic but we do KNOW it CAN happen.....

 

I'd be a little more nervous about it if it wasn't for the fact that Vazquez started every postseason game beginning with Game 2 of the ALCS.

 

In Cora we trust.

[harmony]

The Mariners’ backup catcher is entering his 10th professional season as a catcher and is on an MLB roster heading into April for the first time. As he has actually hit fairly well in the minors, one can assume his defense has been a big factor in spending 9 seasons there. Do you think Freitas will improve at all?

http://forums.seattletimes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=252644&sid=63f3eb165c4d33f91c24aab969f20ba3

 

I did not start that thread.

Edited March 25, 2019 by harmony

[Nick]

I'd be a little more nervous about it if it wasn't for the fact that Vazquez started every postseason game beginning with Game 2 of the ALCS.

 

In Cora we trust.

 

we have a winner.....two valid points. No offense but I'll go with Cora.

 

Does anyone here think it's hard to acquire a Sandy Leon? People on this board make him out to be a Hall of Famer.

 

Oh my God, Chris Sale will now suck. Bank it.

[Slasher9]

I'd be a little more nervous about it if it wasn't for the fact that Vazquez started every postseason game beginning with Game 2 of the ALCS.

 

In Cora we trust.

 

good point and i def trust in Cora.

i am guessing Swi put in some serious work over the winter to get Cora's attention.

[FredLynn]

Blake Swihart has appeared as a catcher in 121 MLB games (and in 342 minor league games). Evaluators have an idea whether the chocolate is to their liking.

 

My comment was in reference to Moon's claim that there is something to the fact that 2-3 SPs might not like Swihart catching them (he said Sale has 0 games with Swihart and Price has 48 PAs. As I said, Sale has never actually pitched to Swihart. Lets see if he complains about it when Swi catches him....my guess is that he really doesn't care.

Again, you are missing the whole point: the fact that pitchers are comfortable with Leon (we can stipulate that we agree on that) does not exclude the possibility that they are also comfortable with Swihart, or will be. Unless of course you have proof to the contrary......

[Kimmi]

We will miss what Leon gave us defensively,but I'm really exited to see what Swilhart can finally offer us. I've always liked the kid. The absolute best outcome is if Sandy clears waivers and takes the AAA assignment. We are covered all ways then.

 

I've always liked Swihart too, and feel like he got jerked around a bit by the Sox. He could end up being a very good catcher, both offensively and defensively, but what makes me nervous is that we just haven't seen him play enough to know.

 

It would indeed be the best case scenario for the Sox if Leon clears waivers and stays with the team.

[Kimmi]

Wrong.

If Swihart gets picked up we are stuck with Leon all year. No thanks.

 

Personally, I am not happy about Leon being placed on waivers.

[harmony]

http://forums.seattletimes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=252644&sid=63f3eb165c4d33f91c24aab969f20ba3

 

I did not start that thread.

 

As stated, I am a fan of backup Seattle catcher David Freitas but am not counting on his improvement, defensively or otherwise.

 

Compare the Baseball Prospectus "Advanced Catching Metrics" for Sandy Leon, Christian Vazquez, Blake Swihart and David Freitas (scroll down):

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/55951/sandy-leon

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/58767/christian-vazquez

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/70407/blake-swihart

 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/66535/david-freitas

[SCM33]

If someone picks him up, we lose him.

 

If nobody picks him up, we do not have to keep him on our 40 man roster.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Yes.

 

The part where any team picking him up off waivers is responsible for his entire $2.48 mill salary. While certainly not the most prohibitive salary in MLB, other catchers like Rene Rivera and Tom Murphy can be had for less.

 

He’s going to clear waivers. Boston will have ample opportunity to bring him back...

 

DFA, Waivers and outright release are completely different transactions. Notin explained what I was trying to get to.

 

Clear waivers, release him...then bring him back on a minor league deal.

Edited March 25, 2019 by SCM33

[moonslav59]

we have a winner.....two valid points. No offense but I'll go with Cora.

 

Does anyone here think it's hard to acquire a Sandy Leon? People on this board make him out to be a Hall of Famer.

 

Oh my God, Chris Sale will now suck. Bank it.

 

I'm the one bringing up the Sale differentials, and I never said Sale will suck or even be bad or average.

 

I said I was worried about the learning curve and building a comfort level with Swihart and to a lesser extent Vaz.

 

Are you saying those past, sometime massive, differentials are meaningless?

 

If not, how long would you guess it will take Sale, Price and Porcello to get to a near comfort level these guys had with Leon (and Vaz when comparing Vaz to Swihart)?

 

Again, I am not crushed by Leon's departure. His offense has been putrid for 2 years, and he was basically just 2 pitchers' caddy last year.

 

The world will not end.

 

I'm sticking with my 104 games won projection, but I'm not as confident about it.

 

Sale, Price and Porcello have pitched with many catchers over their careers, and one more should not make or break anyone.

 

I'm pretty sure all three would much prefer Leon catches them over Swihart, even if he hits a .300 OPS. Their feelings about Leon vs Vaz might not be all that different, except for maybe Sale.

 

[SCM33]

I'm the one bringing up the Sale differentials, and I never said Sale will suck or even be bad or average.

 

I said I was worried about the learning curve and building a comfort level with Swihart and to a lesser extent Vaz.

 

Are you saying those past, sometime massive, differentials are meaningless?

 

If not, how long would you guess it will take Sale, Price and Porcello to get to a near comfort level these guys had with Leon (and Vaz when comparing Vaz to Swihart)?

 

Again, I am not crushed by Leon's departure. His offense has been putrid for 2 years, and he was basically just 2 pitchers' caddy last year.

 

The world will not end.

 

I'm sticking with my 104 games won projection, but I'm not as confident about it.

 

Sale, Price and Porcello have pitched with many catchers over their careers, and one more should not make or break anyone.

 

I'm pretty sure all three would much prefer Leon catches them over Swihart, even if he hits a .300 OPS. Their feelings about Leon vs Vaz might not be all that different, except for maybe Sale.

 

 

Some pitchers feel more comfortable with certain catchers. Many times though, it really doesn't matter. There are times when a great defensive catcher gets the most out of a fringe pitcher and makes him look better....but think about it....

 

Who remembers any of Roger Clemens catchers?

Who remembers any of Randy Johnsons catchers?

Who remembers any of Nolan Ryans catchers?

Glavine and Smoltz both threw to Javy Lopez, who was awful (Maddux preferred Eddie Perez)

 

Good pitchers are good, because they are good. Not because a catcher makes them good. A catcher doesn't give the pitcher velocity, control or movement.

 

I am not disagreeing with you, just adding to your points about how the circumstances change based on the different ability levels of the battery.

 

I will disagree with 104. Thats a little bold haha. Id be happy with 95 wins and an AL East title. Just win more than the Yankees.

[moonslav59]

My comment was in reference to Moon's claim that there is something to the fact that 2-3 SPs might not like Swihart catching them (he said Sale has 0 games with Swihart and Price has 48 PAs. As I said, Sale has never actually pitched to Swihart. Lets see if he complains about it when Swi catches him....my guess is that he really doesn't care.

Again, you are missing the whole point: the fact that pitchers are comfortable with Leon (we can stipulate that we agree on that) does not exclude the possibility that they are also comfortable with Swihart, or will be. Unless of course you have proof to the contrary......

 

Nobody will complain, except maybe in private with the manager, about a catcher they don't want catching them.

 

There are varying degrees of comfort levels. Nobody is saying it is black or white or that I (or we) know more about the comfort levels than you and others do.

 

The Sox have a long record of giving our best starters a personal caddy/catcher. They rarely stray from that plan, unless there's an injury. There's a reason for doing this. There's a reason Sale was caught by Leon 87% of the time and Swihart 0%.

 

Yes, of course, Sale might quickly build up a decent comfort level with Swihart. He's had some time with Vaz (218 PAs) and still has a 1.00 better ERA with Leon. Does it tale 100 PAs, 200, 400? Does it just take practicing with the catcher in ST'ing and off days? None of us know.

 

We do know Sale and Price did way better with Leon. With Sale, neven better than the catchers with the White Sox (in more of a pitcher's park). With Price, Vaz has more PAs than Leon, so it can't be about "building a comfort level over time," and yet with Leon we see a 1.50 better ERA! Everybody knows Price was a better pitcher with the Rays before coming to Boston. Boston is a hitter's park, and yet, Price has a better ERA with Leon than he did with almost every catcher he pitched to in Detroit & TB.

 

ERA with BOS: 3.74

ERA with TBR: 3.18

ERA with DET: 2.90

 

ERA by catcher (180+ PAs)

2.30 Martin

2.67 Avila

2.78 McCann

2.83 Leon

2.85 Molina

3.06 Jaso

3.09 Navarro

3.61 Shoppach

3.75 Gimenez + Hernandez

3.86 Lobaton

4.19 Zaun

4.32 Vaz

(5.73 Swihart in 48 PAs)

 

These numbers are shocking. I'm not saying they are total predictors of what is to come, but I'm a bit surprised by some who don't seem to think there is reason for concern. I'm trying to be hopeful concerning the length of the learning curve, but I am pretty sure there will be one with Swihart and between Vaz and Sale, assuming he becomes Sale's new binky.

 

[vegasbob]

With all the discussion centered between Leon and Swihart, CV snuck through ST with the most AB's of these three and displayed the worst results by far of the three, hitting .133 with almost 28% K's. Despite Blake's good hitting this Spring, he will not get a lot of time behind the plate or at bat so the question as to where his upside could be is not likely to be determined soon.

[harmony]

Who remembers any of Roger Clemens catchers?

Who remembers any of Randy Johnsons catchers?

Who remembers any of Nolan Ryans catchers?

Glavine and Smoltz both threw to Javy Lopez, who was awful (Maddux preferred Eddie Perez).

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jan/18/johnson-wilson-going-into-ms-hall-of-fame-together/

[SCM33]

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jan/18/johnson-wilson-going-into-ms-hall-of-fame-together/

 

LOL, seriously? He caught him for 3 years.......only 109 of his career 603 starts, and the numbers are only marginally better than with any other catcher. But you are going to sit there and say you remember him being a Randy Johnsons catcher because you found an article online that the Seattle Mariners inducted him in to their HOF?

 

The same HOF that has such greats as Alvin Davis, Jamie Moyer and Jay Buhner? GTFO, what a comedy show.

 

FWIW, Johnsons numbers were EXTREMELY better pitching to Damian Miller with the Dbacks. 3.03 ERA to a 2.45 ERA, almost the exactly same amount of games and innings.

Edited March 25, 2019 by SCM33

[harmony]

LOL, seriously? He caught him for 3 years.......only 109 of his career 603 starts, and the numbers are only marginally better than with any other catcher. But you are going to sit there and say you remember him being a Randy Johnsons catcher because you found an article online that the Seattle Mariners inducted him in to their HOF?

 

The same HOF that has such greats as Alvin Davis, Jamie Moyer and Jay Buhner? GTFO, what a comedy show.

 

FWIW, Johnsons numbers were EXTREMELY better pitching to Damian Miller with the Dbacks. 3.03 ERA to a 2.45 ERA, almost the exactly same amount of games and innings.

LOL. The question was simply: Who remembers?

[SCM33]

LOL. The question was simply: Who remembers?

 

No argument.

[Slasher9]

DFA, Waivers and outright release are completely different transactions. Notin explained what I was trying to get to.

 

Clear waivers, release him...then bring him back on a minor league deal.

 

Baseball contracts are guaranteed. Your last sentence is not possible for the team that releases him. Another team can pick him up for league minimum and we would be responsible for the difference between minimum and contract.

[moonslav59]

Baseball contracts are guaranteed. Your last sentence is not possible for the team that releases him. Another team can pick him up for league minimum and we would be responsible for the difference between minimum and contract.

 

So, if nobody claims him and we don't ask him back, we still owe him $2.4M?

[moonslav59]

Some pitchers feel more comfortable with certain catchers. Many times though, it really doesn't matter. There are times when a great defensive catcher gets the most out of a fringe pitcher and makes him look better....but think about it....

 

Who remembers any of Roger Clemens catchers?

Who remembers any of Randy Johnsons catchers?

Who remembers any of Nolan Ryans catchers?

Glavine and Smoltz both threw to Javy Lopez, who was awful (Maddux preferred Eddie Perez)

 

Good pitchers are good, because they are good. Not because a catcher makes them good. A catcher doesn't give the pitcher velocity, control or movement.

 

I am not disagreeing with you, just adding to your points about how the circumstances change based on the different ability levels of the battery.

 

I will disagree with 104. Thats a little bold haha. Id be happy with 95 wins and an AL East title. Just win more than the Yankees.

 

Some great pitchers, it doesn't matter. I agree. Some like ERod either.

 

There is a long history of some all time greats having a personal caddy.

 

Do all the catcher numbers with Sale and Price concern you at all?

 

Not even a little bit?

 

[SCM33]

Baseball contracts are guaranteed. Your last sentence is not possible for the team that releases him. Another team can pick him up for league minimum and we would be responsible for the difference between minimum and contract.

 

Yes, its guarenteed.....but it opens up a roster spot, and a spot on the 40 man roster. Who ever made mention of "saving money" by releasing Leon? I don't care if they pay him or not, I dont want him blocking Swihart.

 

So, if nobody claims him and we don't ask him back, we still owe him $2.4M?

 

Yes. But this is like having your cake, and eating it too. He doesnt take up a roster spot, and we can bring him back. We don't know all the circumstances. Maybe he wanted his release rather than being designated for assignment and assigned to the minors. If he is not picked up, maybe he realizes that his value is how we see it, not how he sees it and he is more flexible with the roster options the team has against him.

 

Some great pitchers, it doesn't matter. I agree. Some like ERod either.

 

There is a long history of some all time greats having a personal caddy.

 

Do all the catcher numbers with Sale and Price concern you at all?

 

Not even a little bit?

 

 

For Sale? Absolutely not. His best numbers were with AJ Pierzinski. He has thrown most to Tyler Flowers (who?) AJ was a terrible catcher. Flowers wasnt much better.

 

Price concerns me a little bit. His best numbers were with Jose Molina. BUT, his second best numbers catcher wise....is with John Jaso, who had a reputation as a poor catcher. So, I guess....not really.

 

A pitcher like Porcello would concern me more than Sale or Price. A guy that is borderline good to average.

 

Catchers make more of a difference to those mid-range guys.

 

EDIT: I take that back. Just looked at Porcellos career splits. There is no difference between Vasquez and Leon OR Alex Avila, who has caught him most.

 

It really doesn't make much of a difference, except in special circumstances.

 

Good pitchers, pitch good. Bad pitchers don't, regardless of who is catching....unless you are throwing to Mike Piazza or Jorge Posada (who Clemens was average AT BEST with)

Edited March 26, 2019 by SCM33

[Slasher9]

So, if nobody claims him and we don't ask him back, we still owe him $2.4M?

 

Correct

[moonslav59]

All I can say is LMAO!