Betts agree to $20M contract

[Kimmi]

When Sale's jersey-cutting and Hanley's dreads are making a comeback as conversation topics, you know it's been a long and boring ass winter. Ready for some baseball, please.

 

The baseball offseason is far too long, IMO.

[cp176]

he spoke pretty well too?

 

Great - Is that a prerequisite to play?

[Northern Star]

The baseball offseason is far too long, IMO.

 

Given the length of the season, I say give 'em a break.

[sk7326]

The baseball offseason is far too long, IMO.

 

If they are going to keep having dead as a doornail winter meetings it is.

[Kimmi]

Given the length of the season, I say give 'em a break.

 

You are correct from the players' and coaches' point of view.

 

I'm speaking from a purely selfish point.

[Kimmi]

If they are going to keep having dead as a doornail winter meetings it is.

 

I have never been a fan of the Hot Stove, but this offseason seems a lot worse than most.

[sk7326]

I have never been a fan of the Hot Stove, but this offseason seems a lot worse than most.

 

I look at baseball from a fan interest view. Player movement is good for the game - it's another way of celebrating players (which MLB in general is very very very very very very bad at) and it is good to keep interest across the whole country. I look at the NFL, which also has a very long offseason, but they toss in the NFL draft in may and get a whole weekend to themselves. The Winter Meetings were a good way for baseball to stay on the radar during the offseason and it is bad that it has been screwed up by a bunch of cheapskates.

[notin]

I look at baseball from a fan interest view. Player movement is good for the game - it's another way of celebrating players (which MLB in general is very very very very very very bad at) and it is good to keep interest across the whole country. I look at the NFL, which also has a very long offseason, but they toss in the NFL draft in may and get a whole weekend to themselves. The Winter Meetings were a good way for baseball to stay on the radar during the offseason and it is bad that it has been screwed up by a bunch of cheapskates.

 

 

Also the purpose of the NFL Draft is to provide hope for the last place teams, which can be measured in ticket sales. First round picks rarely make a difference anywhere except the box office.

 

The NFL draft is an opportunity for the worst teams to improve.

 

But what about the worst teams in MLB?

 

The Blue Jays have spent all of $11mill on players this off-season with no money on 2020.

 

The Giants have spent $8.5mill this off-season. Again, all of it in 20-9.

 

The Marlins have spent $2mill this off-season on MLB players. How does this team expect to attract fans when the biggest addition to a last place team is Neil Walker?

 

The Orioles have yet to spend their first dollar improving their MLB product. This is s team with a solid history and an established fan base. And I assume their fan base hates the owners right now...

[OH FOY]

Roster change over is huge in the NFL.

IF you hit in the Draft, you could improve of course. But, now in the NFL a Drafted Rookie after is FA after 4 years, 1st Rounders are 5, if 5th year Option is picked up. Then they are FA's.

Now you start talking money, teams have to Manage the Cap. Sometimes you have to let some of your good players to leave. Just want too much. Dead Money is part of the Cap.

In the long run Days of Steelers, Cowboys, Packers, keeping a Player Drafted, for the duration of their Career, is harder now. That's why what the Patriots are doing is unreal.

Sure if you hit on the Draft, and that's a big if. You'll improve. But you need other ways to keep a good team competitive for any long stretches.

Baseball needs a Cap, in the worst way. But, it will never happen.

Salary Cap has made the NFL more competitive, more then anything.

[dgalehouse]

There is a classic case in the NBA , where the Knicks are tanking like crazy . But in the NBA it makes more sense . Just one or two top free agents and a top draft pick and you are right back in business . Not that easy in baseball .

[sk7326]

Roster change over is huge in the NFL.

IF you hit in the Draft, you could improve of course. But, now in the NFL a Drafted Rookie after is FA after 4 years, 1st Rounders are 5, if 5th year Option is picked up. Then they are FA's.

Now you start talking money, teams have to Manage the Cap. Sometimes you have to let some of your good players to leave. Just want too much. Dead Money is part of the Cap.

In the long run Days of Steelers, Cowboys, Packers, keeping a Player Drafted, for the duration of their Career, is harder now. That's why what the Patriots are doing is unreal.

Sure if you hit on the Draft, and that's a big if. You'll improve. But you need other ways to keep a good team competitive for any long stretches.

Baseball needs a Cap, in the worst way. But, it will never happen.

Salary Cap has made the NFL more competitive, more then anything.

 

The NFL can do this because it's largest revenue stream is socially distributed - there is no local TV money, it's all national. And even then, baseball has more competitive balance - baseball is just a more leveling game.

 

Baseball does not need a salary cap at all. They just need teams to try to win - and the incentive to do so. Remember, the YANKEES are not even trying that hard. It's not a haves vs have nots problem. It's a general miserliness one.

[notin]

But the point is the NFL glamorizes it’s draft as a marketing tool. They televise it and show highlights of every draftee to give fans the impression their awful teams are no longer awful.

 

But really at the end of the day, it’s just a bunch of college kids getting jobs. The dramatized and emphasized impact? Not gonna happen, even for the teams with the best grades.

 

The baseball equivalent is the off-season. Remember how excited you were when you heard the Sox acquired Pedro? Or Adrian Gonzalez? (Some of you were. Don’t deny it now. We don’t blame you.). THAT is what the MLB off-season is supposed to bring.

 

Cincinnati came in last in 2018. They’re making moves everywhere. Ditto Texas. It might not work, but they’re trying. But Baltimore?WTF?!?!?! Worst team in MLB and they haven’t added a single major leaguer?!?!? They’re an embarrassment...

[Bellhorn04]

But Baltimore?WTF?!?!?! Worst team in MLB and they haven’t added a single major leaguer?!?!? They’re an embarrassment...

 

Well, they do have a new manager.

[jacksonianmarch]

They don't need to add a major leaguer. They are a full on rebuild with a lot of talent brought in via trade. They are gonna be in a protracted rebuild until they get their INTL situation figured out. Peter Angelos never believe in the INTL market, but his kids apparently do. If they invest in development, they should come back to relevancy by 2024-ish

[moonslav59]

They don't need to add a major leaguer. They are a full on rebuild with a lot of talent brought in via trade. They are gonna be in a protracted rebuild until they get their INTL situation figured out. Peter Angelos never believe in the INTL market, but his kids apparently do. If they invest in development, they should come back to relevancy by 2024-ish

 

Stockpiling number one draft picks is one way to rebuild.

 

It just really sucks for those 2-3 years of total despair.

[Bellhorn04]

Stockpiling number one draft picks is one way to rebuild.

 

It just really sucks for those 2-3 years of total despair.

 

Let's call it what it really is - tanking.

[moonslav59]

Let's call it what it really is - tanking.

 

Yes, and it worked for the Astros.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and it worked for the Astros.

 

And the Cubs.

 

It worked 2 years in a row, and I'm afraid it's become a model to follow for a number of teams.

[Kimmi]

Stockpiling number one draft picks is one way to rebuild.

 

It just really sucks for those 2-3 years of total despair.

 

If a GM is tearing the team down with the intent of rebuilding to win a championship, like the Cubs did, then I have no problem with that.

 

I think there's a difference between that and a team that is just tanking to not spend any money.

[notin]

They don't need to add a major leaguer. They are a full on rebuild with a lot of talent brought in via trade. They are gonna be in a protracted rebuild until they get their INTL situation figured out. Peter Angelos never believe in the INTL market, but his kids apparently do. If they invest in development, they should come back to relevancy by 2024-ish

 

 

So you think it’s a bad idea to maybe try and put a few MLB-caliber players and sell a few tickets in the next 5 seasons?

[harmony]

If a GM is tearing the team down with the intent of rebuilding to win a championship, like the Cubs did, then I have no problem with that.

 

I think there's a difference between that and a team that is just tanking to not spend any money.

You might enjoy Rob Neyer's latest book, Power Ball: Anatomy of a Modern Baseball Game, which distinguishes the Astros and Cubs rebuilds from the blatant tanking in the NBA:

 

https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062853615/power-ball/

[Kimmi]

You might enjoy Rob Neyer's latest book, Power Ball: Anatomy of a Modern Baseball Game, which distinguishes the Astros and Cubs rebuilds from the blatant tanking in the NBA:

 

https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062853615/power-ball/

 

Thank you for the suggestion. I don't follow the NBA enough to have any idea of the tanking that goes on in that sport. Shame on the owners who are tanking for the sole purpose of pocketing every penny that they can.

[Behindenemylines]

Enjoy 2019 because things might start to get crazy next offseason. Maybe if Machado and Harper don’t break the bank then the bar may get lower in regards to max per year.

[moonslav59]

If a GM is tearing the team down with the intent of rebuilding to win a championship, like the Cubs did, then I have no problem with that.

 

I think there's a difference between that and a team that is just tanking to not spend any money.

 

Yes, there is a big difference, and I guess as long as the scam teams still keep enough fans to keep making money, there's no incentive for their GMs to change their M.O.

 

There's another (bigger) subset of owners and GMs who make enough moves to tease their fans and give the appearance they will be competitive or semi-competitive, at least every now and then, but they never will do what it takes to create a top 4 team, on paper. Every now and then, a small market team surprise everyone, but they never have the "best team on paper" the years they win or make it to the WS.

 

I'm not saying it was all luck; some small market teams like Oakland, KC and TB are very well managed and find unconventional ways to win, but it is rare for a team like the Astros to strategically tank as part of a plan to build a championship.

 

[Kimmi]

Yes, there is a big difference, and I guess as long as the scam teams still keep enough fans to keep making money, there's no incentive for their GMs to change their M.O.

 

There's another (bigger) subset of owners and GMs who make enough moves to tease their fans and give the appearance they will be competitive or semi-competitive, at least every now and then, but they never will do what it takes to create a top 4 team, on paper. Every now and then, a small market team surprise everyone, but they never have the "best team on paper" the years they win or make it to the WS.

 

I'm not saying it was all luck; some small market teams like Oakland, KC and TB are very well managed and find unconventional ways to win, but it is rare for a team like the Astros to strategically tank as part of a plan to build a championship.

 

 

Completely agree Moon. Cincinnati strikes me as one of those teams that does just enough to give the appearance of being competitive, though admittedly, I don't really know their MO that well.

 

Something needs to be done to discourage these teams who are consistently putting poor quality on the field.

[bertha]

That's interesting!http://juragan.club/assets/11/o.png

[harmony]

Completely agree Moon. Cincinnati strikes me as one of those teams that does just enough to give the appearance of being competitive, though admittedly, I don't really know their MO that well.

 

Something needs to be done to discourage these teams who are consistently putting poor quality on the field.

What teams consistently put "poor quality on the field"?

 

The last winning season and last postseason appearance by each team:

 

Atlanta 2018, 2018

Arizona 2018, 2017

Baltimore 2016, 2016

Boston 2018, 2018

Chicago Cubs 2018, 2018

Chicago White Sox 2012, 2008

Cincinnati 2013, 2013

Cleveland 2018, 2018

Colorado 2018, 2018

Detroit 2016, 2014

Houston 2018, 2018

Kansas City 2015, 2015

Los Angeles Angels 2015, 2014

Los Angeles Dodgers 2018, 2018

Miami 2009, 2003

Milwaukee 2018, 2018

Minnesota 2017, 2017

New York Mets 2016, 2016

New York Yankees 2018, 2018

Oakland 2018, 2018

Philadelphia 2011, 2011

Pittsburgh 2018, 2015

Saint Louis 2018, 2015

San Diego 2010, 2006

San Francisco 2016, 2016

Seattle 2018, 2001

Tampa Bay 2018, 2013

Texas 2016, 2016

Toronto 2016, 2016

Washington 2018, 2017

 

Most laggards have shown the willingness to spend money.

Edited March 3, 2019 by harmony

[Station 13]

What teams consistently put "poor quality on the field"?

 

The Mariners.

[harmony]

Yes, and it worked for the Astros.

For the record: In the past decade the Red Sox have as many last-place finishes as the Houston Astros.

[notin]

For the record: In the past decade the Red Sox have as many last-place finishes as the

Houston Astros.

 

 

But more rings...