Betts agree to $20M contract

[notin]

Good point- same with the Dodgers.

 

Maybe the fact that the Yanks and Dodgers both were super competitive last year, despite resetting, has made them rethink their spending strategies.

 

There's lots of two year deals being signed these days.

 

The big difference is the Dodgers also cleared a ton of salary and moved their star right fielder and STILL don’t seem to be in on Harper.

 

But then, sometimes these negotiations do happen under the radar. I always think of Torii Hunter and how he was attached to this team and that team and then out of nowhere he signed with the Angels. And then in an interview afterwards, gave some classic honesty as to why. “My grandma said I’d be stupid to turn down that much money!”

[notin]

Sale in my opinion is little different. We gave up Moncada (and don't forget the matching fee that we paid for him) and Kopech. It's difficult for me to see DD simply letting Sale walk away. I would argue that DD has more vested in Sale than JD.

 

If you’re argument is the Sox need to recoup more value out of Sale, then you’re actually arguing the Sox gave up too much to get him.

 

I agree the Sox gave up a lot, but they also got a lot...

[cp176]

Who knows what the next agreement will look like. The move from the players might be to greatly increase the minimum pay and early career pay and not so much the biggest of the big contracts for a select few players.

 

Wouldn't more players (over their careers) benefit from a min. ML salary of $1M with step raises to $2M until arb years rather than see a few of the best guys make $400M+?

 

You are absolutely right that we have no idea what the next agreement might look like. You could be right that JH has boxed himself into a corner or on the other hand he might have been peeking into the old crystal ball. Something has to change and I'm betting that the change will be beneficial to the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

You are absolutely right that we have no idea what the next agreement might look like. You could be right that JH has boxed himself into a corner or on the other hand he might have been peeking into the old crystal ball. Something has to change and I'm betting that the change will be beneficial to the Red Sox.

 

It is hard to know what will happen.

 

I think Henry saw how great of a core he had and a 4-5 year window to get another ring (or two).

 

I'm sure all GMs would love to stay highly competitive 20 years in a row, and I get the argument that we were actually looking somewhat competitive before the 2012, 2014 and 2015 seasons began (the last place years), but I really don't think Henry wants either of these two things to happen: (Note: I could be very wrong, but my gut feels this way.)

 

1) Henry does not want to be known as the next King George and leave a legacy of outspending all other teams by tens of millions of dollars to buy championships.

 

2) Henry does not want to continuously pay mega taxes, surtaxes and penalties every year.

 

He's okay doing it for short windows to keep our chances of winning a ring very high, but we are reaching a point with our budget, where he'd have to go over $250M to keep this team intact. I don't see it happening.

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Who knows what the next agreement will look like. The move from the players might be to greatly increase the minimum pay and early career pay and not so much the biggest of the big contracts for a select few players.

 

Wouldn't more players (over their careers) benefit from a min. ML salary of $1M with step raises to $2M until arb years rather than see a few of the best guys make $400M+?

 

The history of the free agency movement has been that the huge contracts end up driving prices up for the tiers thereafter. The more Harper and Machado make, the better the water will be for guys like Lemahieu and Didi and other guys hitting the market at the next tier. They won’t change that

[jacksonianmarch]

And another reason why the cliff exists is, so you want to be resigning these guys to record shattering agreements?

 

Chris Sale is a shoulder explosion waiting to happen. You want to re-sign him until he’s 37?

 

JD Martinez has a health history and he’s gonna be 32 when he hits FA. You want him til he’s 37?

 

Xander Bogaerts is going to get a 10 year deal. You want him for 10 years at a ridiculous price?

 

The arguments continue from there. It’s not just the lux tax, it’s more about how much are you willing to spend and how much bad money are you willing to dole out?

[Jack Flap]

Sale in my opinion is little different. We gave up Moncada (and don't forget the matching fee that we paid for him) and Kopech. It's difficult for me to see DD simply letting Sale walk away. I would argue that DD has more vested in Sale than JD.

 

I think we paid an appropriate price for three years of Sale at a bargain salary...whether to extend him beyond that is a difficult dilemma, but one that needs to be approached as its own decision, independent of the trade.

 

Letting Sale walk would be painful, but given how he's worn down in each of the last two seasons, giving him Price-type money into his late 30's seems like a scary proposition.

[notin]

And another reason why the cliff exists is, so you want to be resigning these guys to record shattering agreements?

 

Chris Sale is a shoulder explosion waiting to happen. You want to re-sign him until he’s 37?

 

JD Martinez has a health history and he’s gonna be 32 when he hits FA. You want him til he’s 37?

 

Xander Bogaerts is going to get a 10 year deal. You want him for 10 years at a ridiculous price?

 

The arguments continue from there. It’s not just the lux tax, it’s more about how much are you willing to spend and how much bad money are you willing to dole out?

 

 

If Harper and Machado are struggling to find 7 year deals, who is going to give Bogaerts 10 years so quickly?

 

JD for 5 years is plausible, and while he won’t be a Silver Slugger for all 5, the DH position does have a history of players aging well. See Ortiz, David and Cruz, Nelson...

[Bellhorn04]

Xander Bogaerts is going to get a 10 year deal. You want him for 10 years at a ridiculous price?

 

You might want to hold off on this assertion until we see what Machado actually gets.

[cp176]

As voted by the players in mlb, Chris Sale's slider is the nastiest pitch in all of baseball to hit. Losing him might give me a case of the quivers!

[Carpin]

I think we paid an appropriate price for three years of Sale at a bargain salary...whether to extend him beyond that is a difficult dilemma, but one that needs to be approached as its own decision, independent of the trade.

 

Letting Sale walk would be painful, but given how he's worn down in each of the last two seasons, giving him Price-type money into his late 30's seems like a scary proposition.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Sale will get the payday he deserves, he's great, a true warrior, like CC, Pedro, the Big Unit, and several others which really go out and leave/left everything on the field, his FA year has poor timing even with excellent health the $$ he will get is not even close to Greinke or CC deals (just to make some examples), now with some health concerns in the last two years, the guy will be lucky to get a 2-3 yr deal.

 

It's not like he will be homeless if he retires today, but several pitchers with a fraction of his talent got insanely rich contracts over the last few years. It's hard to feel sad for a guy who is already rich but....

[Slasher9]

As voted by the players in mlb, Chris Sale's slider is the nastiest pitch in all of baseball to hit. Losing him might give me a case of the quivers!

 

it's not as scary when it's on the DL or september

[moonslav59]

The history of the free agency movement has been that the huge contracts end up driving prices up for the tiers thereafter. The more Harper and Machado make, the better the water will be for guys like Lemahieu and Didi and other guys hitting the market at the next tier. They won’t change that

 

I don't agree. Maybe the next tiers of free agency have risen and the ranks of the under tiers have grown a little, but so many players are getting grossly underpaid up to and during their arb years. For many, they never get to big FA payday. They should all band together to insist changes are made to the bottom of the structure.

 

[moonslav59]

As voted by the players in mlb, Chris Sale's slider is the nastiest pitch in all of baseball to hit. Losing him might give me a case of the quivers!

 

Everyone knows hot I feel about...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

 

[Bellhorn04]

Everyone knows hot I feel about...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

 

 

Yeah, we sure do. Here's what you said about him last night:

 

We say good bye to Sale & Porcello, which might not be awful, if Sale shows injury issues this year.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, we sure do. Here's what you said about him last night:

 

We say good bye to Sale & Porcello, which might not be awful, if Sale shows injury issues this year.

 

We can't afford him and Betts. If we could, I'd love to keep both until retirement.

 

Maybe I should say...

 

Mookie Freakin' Betts!

 

[moonslav59]

I guess we could have Betts ($35M), Sale ($33M) and Price ($31M) (and Pedey) on the same roster, but what would the rest of the roster look like?

[Kimmi]

There will be a massive hole in the line-up.

 

Mookie would be replaced by a solid hitter. It likely wouldn't be one that will be as good as Mookie, but it also wouldn't be a replacement level player. Improvements could be made at other positions with the money saved.

[moonslav59]

Mookie would be replaced by a solid hitter. It likely wouldn't be one that will be as good as Mookie, but it also wouldn't be a replacement level player. Improvements could be made at other positions with the money saved.

 

Look at some signings this winter, would you rather have Mookie or...

 

$13M x 3 McCutchen

$10M x 3 Familia

$8M x 3 Joe Kelly

[Bellhorn04]

Look at some signings this winter, would you rather have Mookie or...

 

$13M x 3 McCutchen

$10M x 3 Familia

$8M x 3 Joe Kelly

 

That's right. Taking Mookie's 30 million and divvying it up among 3 players isn't necessarily going to put you ahead, not by any means.

[Bellhorn04]

Put it this way: at $30 million or even $35 million, it's quite likely that Mookie will give full value and more through the first half of his contract at least.

[cp176]

Unfortunately, I don't think Sale will get the payday he deserves, he's great, a true warrior, like CC, Pedro, the Big Unit, and several others which really go out and leave/left everything on the field, his FA year has poor timing even with excellent health the $$ he will get is not even close to Greinke or CC deals (just to make some examples), now with some health concerns in the last two years, the guy will be lucky to get a 2-3 yr deal.

 

It's not like he will be homeless if he retires today, but several pitchers with a fraction of his talent got insanely rich contracts over the last few years. It's hard to feel sad for a guy who is already rich but....

 

You know what, after watching Sale for the past couple of years it is obvious what motivates him. He is a throwback to a different era. A true warrior and a great teammate. I hope that he gets paid but I don't think that anyone here should assume for one second that the money is as important to him as it seems to be to some others. I bet he gets it. Even at his paltry salary, it is likely that he realizes that financially he and his family and their families that come after will be just fine. He is a winner and I think that lucky for us that is a primary motivator for him.

[moonslav59]

You know what, after watching Sale for the past couple of years it is obvious what motivates him. He is a throwback to a different era. A true warrior and a great teammate. I hope that he gets paid but I don't think that anyone here should assume for one second that the money is as important to him as it seems to be to some others. I bet he gets it. Even at his paltry salary, it is likely that he realizes that financially he and his family and their families that come after will be just fine. He is a winner and I think that lucky for us that is a primary motivator for him.

 

Very well said, and I still can't believe some were worried about his character based on the cutting up his uniform.

 

[Carpin]

You know what, after watching Sale for the past couple of years it is obvious what motivates him. He is a throwback to a different era. A true warrior and a great teammate. I hope that he gets paid but I don't think that anyone here should assume for one second that the money is as important to him as it seems to be to some others. I bet he gets it. Even at his paltry salary, it is likely that he realizes that financially he and his family and their families that come after will be just fine. He is a winner and I think that lucky for us that is a primary motivator for him.

 

I get your point, but at the same time is sad to see this guy who really gives everything he has for his team don't get what others with far less talent got as FA, I hope he gets a good contract next year, if somebody around the league deserves that is him, as Moon says very often, we are talking of:

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

[moonslav59]

Unless Sale gets hurt or flames out late season, he's going to get a mega deal.

 

I hope he gets it, too. I'd love for him to stay with us, but I'm thinking it might have to come down to him vs Betts. Keeping them both, with Priced also on the books, will make it very difficult to fill out the rest of the roster with high quality (or high enough) to compete in a serious way year after year.

 

Maybe we can.It would be nice. If someone can show me a reasonable way to do it, I'm all in.

[cp176]

I get your point, but at the same time is sad to see this guy who really gives everything he has for his team don't get what others with far less talent got as FA, I hope he gets a good contract next year, if somebody around the league deserves that is him, as Moon says very often, we are talking of:

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

 

I couldn't agree more! I've said for quite some time now that that is one of the major things that pushed this team over the top and helped make them very special - good people!

[Kimmi]

Very well said, and I still can't believe some were worried about his character based on the cutting up his uniform.

 

 

Worried about his character? No.

 

But no matter how great a pitcher he's been for us, and no matter what the reasoning behind it, that was a childish thing for him to do and Sale was wrong to do it.

[Kimmi]

Unless Sale gets hurt or flames out late season, he's going to get a mega deal.

 

I hope he gets it, too. I'd love for him to stay with us, but I'm thinking it might have to come down to him vs Betts. Keeping them both, with Priced also on the books, will make it very difficult to fill out the rest of the roster with high quality (or high enough) to compete in a serious way year after year.

 

Maybe we can.It would be nice. If someone can show me a reasonable way to do it, I'm all in.

 

If he stays healthy, Sale is going to command a contract much larger than the Sox should reasonably offer him.

 

Sadly, I think we have to let him walk as a free agent.

[Carpin]

If he stays healthy, Sale is going to command a contract much larger than the Sox should reasonably offer him.

 

Sadly, I think we have to let him walk as a free agent.

 

If he has a season free of arm injuries he will get paid and many teams will offer him money. At this point the health issue is a big question mark, I hope he does well (not against my Yankees) and gets his payday.

 

I agree with you, the Sox more likely will have to choose between him and an extension to Betts and good contracts for the rest of the young guys.

[Kimmi]

If he has a season free of arm injuries he will get paid and many teams will offer him money. At this point the health issue is a big question mark, I hope he does well (not against my Yankees) and gets his payday.

 

I agree with you, the Sox more likely will have to choose between him and an extension to Betts and good contracts for the rest of the young guys.

 

I hope he does well too, as much for his own sake as for the team's. He deserves to get his payday. I just don't think it will be with the Sox.