Playoff Roster - 2018

[Kimmi]

Yes, that's been my thinking all along. basically, we keep Leon in the game, until the starter leaves (maybe Leon gets 2 PAs) or if a key batting moment arrives earlier in the game. We could PH Holt, Devers or Nunez and then bring in Vaz for 1-2 PAs. Swihart could just be a late inning catching option.

 

Swihart can also PR or play the OF or 1B, if needed.

 

The argument here on this site doesn't seem to be about having Swihart on the playoff roster. It's about Vaz vs a 12th pitcher or someone like Phillips or Lin. I keep asking, why do we need all these guys to play 2B/3B? They don't need to be PH for, as much as our catchers do, and most are not significantly better on offense or defense than the others, except Kinsler at 2B. I don't see us PH'ing for Kinsler or removing him for better defense (LOL), so we basically would be adding Lin or Phillips as a 4th string 3Bman.

 

3B: Devers/Nunez, Holt and _____. Are we going to PH 4 times at 3B? I could see wanting to bring Lin or Phillips in for defense, if devers happens to be on the field late in a game, but it should never come to having to us 3, let alone 4 3Bmen in a playoff game.

 

I am in complete agreement.

 

That said, whatever Cora decides, I'm sure will be the right choice.

[Kimmi]

How are these guys with creating a comfort level with our starters?

 

Several of our best starters do demonstrably better with Leon than even Vaz, who has a good rep, too.

 

I'm not sure I'd mess with success.

 

I'm not sure how tradeable Vaz is, with that new contract, and i doubt we get much back in trade for Swihart. It would not surprise me, if the Sox just bite the offensive bullet with Leon and keep him around for another year. After all, he still starts more than Vaz & Swi.

 

Personally, unless a super deal comes along, I'd keep all three.

[oldtimer]

You're taking Lin over Devers?

 

No, I thought Devers would be a lock and Nunez the utility. Either way, I think both make it.

[oldtimer]

Personally, unless a super deal comes along, I'd keep all three.

 

What about picking up a quality FA who can catch and hit better than either Leon or Vaz? That certainly should be an option.

[Kimmi]

What about picking up a quality FA who can catch and hit better than either Leon or Vaz? That certainly should be an option.

 

Yes, that would be an option. It depends on who it is and what the cost is.

 

I am just very leery of messing with a pitcher/catcher relationship. To me, that is more important than any offense a catcher can provide.

[Jasonbay44]

I am absolutely for keeping all three catchers, just due to the fact alone of how bad Leon/Vaz have been at the plate, and how good Holt has been as a pinch hitter. It gives Cora a lot of options, and means as little AB's as possible for the weak hitting catchers, especially in big situations.

[moonslav59]

No, I thought Devers would be a lock and Nunez the utility. Either way, I think both make it.

 

If Devers, Nunez, Kinsler & Holt make it, Lin is out.

[moonslav59]

What about picking up a quality FA who can catch and hit better than either Leon or Vaz? That certainly should be an option.

 

I'm fine with obtaining a catcher that can do close to what Leon does with our staff but can also hit better.

 

Name names...

 

(I'm also willing to go through a learning curve with a new catcher as long as he has a history of handling pitchers well.)

 

I'm not happy with Leon's .520 OPS or our sub .575 combined catcher OPS, but I still view our catchers as a net plus, as is.

[oldtimer]

I'm fine with obtaining a catcher that can do close to what Leon does with our staff but can also hit better.

 

Name names...

 

(I'm also willing to go through a learning curve with a new catcher as long as he has a history of handling pitchers well.)

 

I'm not happy with Leon's .520 OPS or our sub .575 combined catcher OPS, but I still view our catchers as a net plus, as is.

 

Of course many would want Wilson Ramos and he would be great, but very expensive and probably beyond what we could pay. A more realistic choice would be Jonathan Lucroy, who plays for Oakland now. He has a lifetime CERA of 3.62, which I believe is equivalent to Leon.s. He is a .240 hitter and his current salary is $6.5 mil. He is 32 and caught in 118 games so is hardy.

 

Continuing with our current catchers means we get reasonable defense but poor defense. I am for looking for shoring that area up for next year.

[moonslav59]

Of course many would want Wilson Ramos and he would be great, but very expensive and probably beyond what we could pay. A more realistic choice would be Jonathan Lucroy, who plays for Oakland now. He has a lifetime CERA of 3.62, which I believe is equivalent to Leon.s. He is a .240 hitter and his current salary is $6.5 mil. He is 32 and caught in 118 games so is hardy.

 

Continuing with our current catchers means we get reasonable defense but poor defense. I am for looking for shoring that area up for next year.

 

It's not about career CERA. CERA is not supposed to be used that way.

 

I'm not saying these guys are good, bad or ugly with pitchers, I admit, I don't know, but before I go out and get one, I want to make sure he'll make our pitchers feel comfortable with him.

 

With Lucroy, it's hard to do any research on CERA with him vs the other catcher on the 4 teams he's played with in the last 3 years.

 

I'd be very happy to have Leon back next year, even if he hits .500. I'd rather spend our resources on our pen and maybe keeping Kinsler.

 

[moonslav59]

Here's what I dug up on Lucroy:

 

With Oakland

CERA

2.79 with Phegley

3.95 with Lucroy

3.96 with Maxwell

 

OPS against with specific pitchers:

Manea

.519 w Maxwell

.544 w Phegley (just 25 PAs)

.689 w Lucroy

 

Mengden

.558 w Maxwell

.751 w Lucroy

n/a w Phegley

 

Jackson

.656 w Phegley

.684 w Lucroy

 

Petit

.495 w Maxwell

.663 w Lucroy

.796 w Phegley

 

Cahill

.582 w Phegley

.663 w Lucroy

.810 w Maxwell

 

Montas

.569 w Phegley (26 PAs)

.823 w Lucroy

 

Treinen

.292 w Maxwell

.433 w Lucroy

.442 w Phegley

 

Anderson

.598 w Lucroy

.780 w Phegley

 

Pagan

.296 w Phegley (21 PAs)

.693 w Maxwell

.844 w Lucroy

 

Brewer Pitchers Career

 

Gallardo

2.93 w Estrada

3.57 w Maldonado

3.60 w Kendall

3.80 w Chirinos

3.94 w Lucroy

 

Lohse

3.66 Molina

4.03 Lucroy

 

Peralta

3.99 Maldanado

4.43 Lucroy

 

Garza

3.25 Navvaro

3.66 D Soto

4.10 Maldanado

4.75 Lucroy

 

J Nelson

3.61 Lucroy

4.26 Pina

5.63 Maldanado

 

 

 

.

Edited September 17, 2018 by moonslav59

[notin]

Mengden caught Manea?

[moonslav59]

Mengden caught Manea?

 

Fixed it.

 

Do the Lucroy CERA/OPS against numbers I posted worry you?

 

Others?

 

Plus, his offense has declined steeply.

 

.855

 

.716

 

.608

 

[Bellhorn04]

I'm quite sure Leon is back next year. For one thing, the team has serious payroll issues, you can't spend on every position. And obviously the team is quite capable of winning a lot of games without much offense from the catcher spot.

 

Where that leaves Swihart, position-wise, I don't know.

[moonslav59]

I'm quite sure Leon is back next year. For one thing, the team has serious payroll issues, you can't spend on every position. And obviously the team is quite capable of winning a lot of games without much offense from the catcher spot.

 

Where that leaves Swihart, position-wise, I don't know.

 

Besides the pen and maybe SP'er depth, our biggest needs seems to be...

 

1. 2B (Nunez, Holt, Lin, Hernandez, Quiroz) Kinsler & Phillips are FAs.

 

2. Catcher Offense (Leon, Vaz, Swihart)

 

3. 3B Defense (Devers/Nunez, Holt, Lin, Hernandez, Swihart/Dalbec, Chavis?)

[OH FOY]

Travis Shaw is at 2nd base now for the Brewers, you can figure that out. With the Shifts today a 2nd baseman is not the same as it used to be. Swihart could play there in an emergency. Edited September 17, 2018 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

Travis Shaw is at 2nd base now for the Brewers, you can figure that out. With the Shifts today a 2nd baseman is not the same as it used to be.

 

So, let's move Swihart to 2B, right?

 

(LOL)

[OH FOY]

Why not?

[OH FOY]

If you had to move him there in a emergency you wouldn't do it. He was a SS throughout his younger days. Putting Vazquez or Leon there would be funny.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Swihart

Edited September 17, 2018 by OH FOY!

[mvp 78]

If you had to move him there in a emergency you wouldn't do it. He was a SS throughout his younger days. Putting Vazquez or Leon there would be funny.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Swihart

 

David Ortiz played SS once too.

[OH FOY]

You know I saw David Ortiz when he was real young for the New Britain Rock Cats, before he put on all this weight, he was damn good 1st Baseman.

[oldtimer]

Besides the pen and maybe SP'er depth, our biggest needs seems to be...

 

1. 2B (Nunez, Holt, Lin, Hernandez, Quiroz) Kinsler & Phillips are FAs.

 

2. Catcher Offense (Leon, Vaz, Swihart)

 

3. 3B Defense (Devers/Nunez, Holt, Lin, Hernandez, Swihart/Dalbec, Chavis?)

 

If you believe Pedey can't recover enough to give us at least half the games then 2nd is a problem with utility guys our current answer. I'm willing to see what Pedey can do as Kinsler is an $11 million answer we can't afford what with arb costs and pitching to locate. Spending heavily on a young 2nd baseman and eating Pedey's contract is an alternate but can we afford to spend there?

 

At catcher, if you believe 0 for 30 stretches at bat are acceptable then Leon is your guy. I am looking for a reaasonably priced alternative.

 

Third base will be Devers again. Hope his fielding and hitting improve and back him up with Nunez. They could go righty, lefty and it wouldn't be optimum but Devers may start to bloom.

[mvp 78]

If you believe Pedey can't recover enough to give us at least half the games then 2nd is a problem with utility guys our current answer. I'm willing to see what Pedey can do as Kinsler is an $11 million answer we can't afford what with arb costs and pitching to locate. Spending heavily on a young 2nd baseman and eating Pedey's contract is an alternate but can we afford to spend there?

 

At catcher, if you believe 0 for 30 stretches at bat are acceptable then Leon is your guy. I am looking for a reaasonably priced alternative.

 

Third base will be Devers again. Hope his fielding and hitting improve and back him up with Nunez. They could go righty, lefty and it wouldn't be optimum but Devers may start to bloom.

 

I think Kinsler signs a short term deal for about 7.5AAV.

[Bellhorn04]

Besides the pen and maybe SP'er depth, our biggest needs seems to be...

 

1. 2B (Nunez, Holt, Lin, Hernandez, Quiroz) Kinsler & Phillips are FAs.

 

2. Catcher Offense (Leon, Vaz, Swihart)

 

3. 3B Defense (Devers/Nunez, Holt, Lin, Hernandez, Swihart/Dalbec, Chavis?)

 

I honestly don't think catcher offense is a real need.

[Maxbialystock]

What the heck happened to the 2018 playoff roster as a topic? I'm not saying 2019 isn't worthy of discussion, but it's already the dominant topic on moonslav's realistic view of 2018 thread (over 300 pages) and elsewhere. Meanwhile, the Sox haven't actually entered the postseason yet!

 

I like my 25, but won't repeat them here. I do think these September games are a pretty good testing ground for who makes that roster.

 

For example, I would never have put Lin on there, but that ball off his glove in CF showed me that guy is versatile even though he didn't catch that fly. Plus the double. Plus a good infielder. But mostly he might be the fastest guy on the team. So, even though I didn't pick him, he could end up on that roster.

 

Despite the bullpen travails, I'm sticking with 11 pitchers--4 rotation (obvious) and 7 relievers. I included Wright, but some didn't and should right now feel pretty foolish. I excluded Pom and still believe that was a good decision. But I also had Kelly and now have doubts.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

I honestly don't think catcher offense is a real need.

 

Good point, but it is a weak area.

 

Since the defense more than makes up for that "weak area," I'm fine with the status quo next year.

 

Besides, our catchers might just crack the .600 line next year. All have been below their career norms this year.

[moonslav59]

If you believe Pedey can't recover enough to give us at least half the games then 2nd is a problem with utility guys our current answer. I'm willing to see what Pedey can do as Kinsler is an $11 million answer we can't afford what with arb costs and pitching to locate. Spending heavily on a young 2nd baseman and eating Pedey's contract is an alternate but can we afford to spend there?

 

At catcher, if you believe 0 for 30 stretches at bat are acceptable then Leon is your guy. I am looking for a reaasonably priced alternative.

 

Third base will be Devers again. Hope his fielding and hitting improve and back him up with Nunez. They could go righty, lefty and it wouldn't be optimum but Devers may start to bloom.

 

I don't believe Pedey will return and think we should plan accordingly, but I haven't lost all hope.

 

I'm fine with .500 OPS catchers, if they keep our staff pitching like they are.

 

3B is Devers' to lose next year. We have Nunez, just in case. We have Holt, Hernandez & Lin, in case of emergency.

 

I wouldn't mind us signing a LeMahieu type, who can play 2B and 3B. I'd be fine with Kinsler back at a reasonable cost.

 

Our pen should be where almost all available resources are spent this winter.

[sk7326]

Some UFAs who make sense for what the Red Sox need include:

 

Josh Harrison

Ian Kinsler

Daniel Murphy

 

If the market gets down to 1 or 2 years, Brian Dozier is interesting (I expect he will be too rich)

 

If you wanted to be creative Jose Iglesias and see if Bogaerts can play 2B ... (again this is more spitballing than anything realistic)

 

Kinsler is the safest idea and probably my first wish. Harrison is not really an improvement over Holt or Nunez.

[Slasher9]

 

I included Wright, but some didn't and should right now feel pretty foolish. I excluded Pom and still believe that was a good decision. But I also had Kelly and now have doubts.

 

wright was on the DL with zero timetable when i started this thread. i had no confidence on his return as it took him a year to come back from sliding into 2b. now that he is actually back i 100% agree that he should be on the postseason roster. he would replace Pom from my original post.

[moonslav59]

Some UFAs who make sense for what the Red Sox need include:

 

Josh Harrison

Ian Kinsler

Daniel Murphy

 

If the market gets down to 1 or 2 years, Brian Dozier is interesting (I expect he will be too rich)

 

If you wanted to be creative Jose Iglesias and see if Bogaerts can play 2B ... (again this is more spitballing than anything realistic)

 

Kinsler is the safest idea and probably my first wish. Harrison is not really an improvement over Holt or Nunez.

 

I'd add LeMahieu to the list. (He can also play 3B.)