Wright, Throwers and Pitchers

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

It just goes to show that there are a lot of great CFers and there's no reason to hold onto a guy hitting under .200 for most of the season. JBJ is very replaceable.

 

That was my position all year and it didn't seem to get much support. It was not a slight at JBJ, just respect for all the other CFs around the league. JBJ is a tremendous center fielder but the truth is he may make a play or 2 a month that the others do not make and that's not enough to offset his at bats.

[moonslav59]

Allen's two plays go to show why you DO hold onto a guy with GG skills in CF, almost regardless of how he's hitting. Those two plays may very well have saved the game for them. And his 0-3 didn't hurt the Guardians a bit. They still won.

 

Word was the Guardians were after JBJ on more than one occasion. Now, they don't need him.

[moonslav59]

You don't hold onto a guy like JBJ, because they are almost dime a dozen these days.

 

I'll take a dozen for a buck-twenty, then.

[mvp 78]

Mallex Smith has a dWAR of 0.2 this year as compared to JBJ's 0.8. (just for clarification, 0.2 x 4 = 0.8. If you believe in WAR JBJ is 4x the CF Smith is.

 

Sure, we'd all like to have a CF who plays defense like Bradley and hits like Smith but those guys aren't "a dime a dozen'.

I never once said a guy with Mallex oWAR and JBJ dWAR is dime a dozen.

 

Your arguments are just s***. You always bitch and moan about other posters not listening to the other side without ever actually listening yourself.

[S5Dewey]

I never once said a guy with Mallex oWAR and JBJ dWAR is dime a dozen.

 

Your arguments are just s***. You always bitch and moan about other posters not listening to the other side without ever actually listening yourself.

 

Well, while we're doing the name calling, you're just a dick. I can't figure out if it's just toward me or toward everyone (there's evidence of both) but a dick is a dick.

 

Now exactly what part of this did I misinterpret?

 

"You don't hold onto a guy like JBJ, because they are almost dime a dozen these days." [Cut and pasted from Post #27 in this thread]

 

Or are you saying that "a guy like JBJ" doesn't have have JBJ's WAR?

[mvp 78]

Well, while we're doing the name calling, you're just a dick. I can't figure out if it's just toward me or toward everyone (there's evidence of both) but a dick is a dick.

 

Now exactly what part of this did I misinterpret?

 

"You don't hold onto a guy like JBJ, because they are almost dime a dozen these days." [Cut and pasted from Post #27 in this thread]

 

Or are you saying that "a guy like JBJ" doesn't have have JBJ's WAR?

 

You said “Sure, we'd all like to have a CF who plays defense like Bradley and hits like Smith but those guys aren't "a dime a dozen'.”

 

It’s clearly not the same thing as “a guy with JBJ’s WAR.

 

I’m a jerk to you because you constantly whine and complain that nobody listens to you, but you can’t be bothered to listen to anyone else.

 

It’s fine, you don’t have to worry about me responding to you anymore.

[Slasher9]

I blame Slasher.

 

suddenly the weight of this season has started to feel pretty heavy on me. lol.

parade or i'm dead meat and looking for a new forum!

[S5Dewey]

You said “Sure, we'd all like to have a CF who plays defense like Bradley and hits like Smith but those guys aren't "a dime a dozen'.”

 

It’s clearly not the same thing as “a guy with JBJ’s WAR.

 

I’m a jerk to you because you constantly whine and complain that nobody listens to you, but you can’t be bothered to listen to anyone else.

 

It’s fine, you don’t have to worry about me responding to you anymore.

 

Your entire argument is nothing but bizarre. You say something and then you try to blame someone else for quoting you. As someone once told me, "The only thing worse than being misquoted is being accurately quoted".

 

You're not going to respond to me again? Two words: Thank God!

Edited August 22, 2018 by S5Dewey

[Slasher9]

JBj is the best defensive CFer to ever play the game. that is my own opinion. i love that he is on my team and the starting CFer. i believe that every SP for the Boston Red Sox feels the same way i do.....

everyone complains about him hitting .200. i will complain when he is under 100. i dont need a thing from him on offense. neither do the red sox pitchers.

[Spudboy]

suddenly the weight of this season has started to feel pretty heavy on me. lol.

parade or i'm dead meat and looking for a new forum!

 

********.

 

Your avatars are always highly buoyant.

 

That counts for a lot with some of us.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

JBj is the best defensive CFer to ever play the game. that is my own opinion. i love that he is on my team and the starting CFer. i believe that every SP for the Boston Red Sox feels the same way i do.....

everyone complains about him hitting .200. i will complain when he is under 100. i dont need a thing from him on offense. neither do the red sox pitchers.

 

Wow.

[cp176]

suddenly the weight of this season has started to feel pretty heavy on me. lol.

parade or i'm dead meat and looking for a new forum!

 

Wait wait Slasher - I'll go with you. We represent two posters who have some opposing thoughts and ideas who can still actually get along with each other most of the time. lol

[jacksonianmarch]

JBj is the best defensive CFer to ever play the game. that is my own opinion. i love that he is on my team and the starting CFer. i believe that every SP for the Boston Red Sox feels the same way i do.....

everyone complains about him hitting .200. i will complain when he is under 100. i dont need a thing from him on offense. neither do the red sox pitchers.

 

That's hard to quantify and likely not true. There were some stupidly good CFers who also were blessed with more speed than JBJ. JBJ might be the best defensive centerfielder without elite speed that I have ever seen.

[Bellhorn04]

That's hard to quantify and likely not true. There were some stupidly good CFers who also were blessed with more speed than JBJ. JBJ might be the best defensive centerfielder without elite speed that I have ever seen.

 

Good observation. He doesn't have elite speed but he's probably elite in every other aspect of fielding.

[mvp 78]

That's hard to quantify and likely not true. There were some stupidly good CFers who also were blessed with more speed than JBJ. JBJ might be the best defensive centerfielder without elite speed that I have ever seen.

 

Andruw Jones was way better. It's not close.

[notin]

I'll take a dozen for a buck-twenty, then.

 

Technically you only have to pay the dime.

 

It’s clear the Sox value JBJ’s defense. When his hitting was sub-Mendoza for a couple seasons, they made a couple attempts to replace him, namely signing Rusney Castillo and moving Mookie Betts to CF. The Sox still have both players, but Jackie remains in CF...

[moonslav59]

Technically you only have to pay the dime.

 

It’s clear the Sox value JBJ’s defense. When his hitting was sub-Mendoza for a couple seasons, they made a couple attempts to replace him, namely signing Rusney Castillo and moving Mookie Betts to CF. The Sox still have both players, but Jackie remains in CF...

 

I'll take 12 at $1.20, trade 10 and keep 2.

[Kimmi]

suddenly the weight of this season has started to feel pretty heavy on me. lol.

parade or i'm dead meat and looking for a new forum!

 

We love you Slasher.

 

Bad mojo and all!

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Andruw Jones was way better. It's not close.

 

Jones was my first thought. Griffey Jr. also came to mind. There have been so many amazing CFs throughout history to claim JBJ was the best of them all is nonsense.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[Slasher9]

Jones was my first thought. Griffey Jr. also came to mind. There have been so many amazing CFs throughout history to claim JBJ was the best of them all is nonsense.

 

or...someone's opinion. plus steroid era. if we choose to ignore some stats from that era do we not have to ignore all stats from that era? or we can just pick and choose. which i am fine with. i'll take JBj over andrew Jones every day of the week. you may sway me with Jr but i think some will hate him because he likes to wear his hat backwards?

[Bellhorn04]

I don't know if JBJ is the best ever. But I do know he has put together one hell of a highlight reel.

[notin]

I don't know if JBJ is the best ever. But I do know he has put together one hell of a highlight reel.

 

I am not sure I put JBJ in the top 10 for all time defense in CF. But I still want him out there.

 

I think the best defensive CF I have ever seen might be Franklin "Death to Flying Things" Gutierrez, and he also had the best nickname. Andruw Jones certainly had the rep, but I didn't see him as much.

[notin]

I am not sure I put JBJ in the top 10 for all time defense in CF. But I still want him out there.

 

I think the best defensive CF I have ever seen might be Franklin "Death to Flying Things" Gutierrez, and he also had the best nickname. Andruw Jones certainly had the rep, but I didn't see him as much.

 

I looked at Fangraphs, and for all CF with a minimum of 4,000 innings, Bradley ranked eighth in UZR/150. Jones was first and Death to Flying Things was second. Also ahead of Bradley were Billy Hamilton, Peter Bourjos, Lorenzo Cain, Leonys Martin and, for some reason, Corey Patterson. So he does make the top ten since UZR data completion started, which was in the early 2000's, I think.

 

And he should be ahead of Patterson, whom no one misses...

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

What an effort by JBJ last night on that near miss, boy he is fun to watch.

[moonslav59]

What an effort by JBJ last night on that near miss' date=' boy he is fun to watch.[/quote']

 

I think JBJ gets dinged sometimes on UZR/150, because he makes it look too easy.

 

No data to support this claim, but my gut tells me he's better than that metric gives him credit for being.

[notin]

I think JBJ gets dinged sometimes on UZR/150, because he makes it look too easy.

 

No data to support this claim, but my gut tells me he's better than that metric gives him credit for being.

 

It’s tough to say because we see so much of him and so little of the others, unlike the people compiling UZR. Bradley does have a highlight reel this year, but are fans so sure Lorenzo Cain and Kevin Pillar don’t?

[OH FOY]

It’s tough to say because we see so much of him and so little of the others, unlike the people compiling UZR. Bradley does have a highlight reel this year, but are fans so sure Lorenzo Cain and Kevin Pillar don’t?

 

Good Point. I just wish many saw Paul Blair play Centerfield. He was unreal, played shallow, real shallow, and it was real hard to hit it over his Head. Took away a lot of Runs from playing so shallow. Real hard to score from 2nd base on him.

Edited August 25, 2018 by OH FOY!

[notin]

Good Point. I just wish many saw Paul Blair play Centerfield. He was unreal, played shallow, real shallow, and it was real hard to hit it over his Head. Took away a lot of Runs from playing so shallow. Real hard to score from 2nd base on him.

 

I caught the tail end of Paul Blair’s career.

 

In the 1970s and early 1980s whenI was a kid

it was possible to see lots of other teams on Monday Night Baseball and see highlights from around the league onTWIB. ( Who else remembers TWIB?) One player I loved was Terry Puhl of the Houston Astros. He played so shallow and could still get back. Lee Mazzilli of the Mets did the same thing...

[Kimmi]

I think JBJ gets dinged sometimes on UZR/150, because he makes it look too easy.

 

No data to support this claim, but my gut tells me he's better than that metric gives him credit for being.

 

Players don't get penalized in UZR for making a play look easy. Similarly, players who have to dive to make a routine play do not get bonus points for making the play look harder than it was.

 

JBJ may be hurt somewhat because he doesn't have a lot of CF wall over which he can rob others of homeruns at Fenway.

[Bellhorn04]

Players don't get penalized in UZR for making a play look easy. Similarly, players who have to dive to make a routine play do not get bonus points for making the play look harder than it was.

 

JBJ may be hurt somewhat because he doesn't have a lot of CF wall over which he can rob others of homeruns at Fenway.

 

Which suggests that home UZR vs. road UZR might be interesting.