Dave Dombrowski

[mvp 78]

No, what we had in March is very relevant. That's the GM's job.

 

What we had were misplaced expectations from a team that played above their heads in 2013.

[mvp 78]

It was not, and yet, the team was predicted to be a playoff contender. While I am not a fan of building an offense first team, it was the offense that was supposed to carry that year's team, while the pitching was supposed to be able to pitch well enough to keep the team in the game.

 

We may not have liked the way the team was constructed, but we still should have competed for a playoff spot.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/preview15/story/_/id/12588378/expert-team-predictions-2015-mlb-season

 

Who predicted the 2015 team to be contenders though?

[a700hitter]

If you give me a parade every 4th year, I will take the last place finishes the other 3. Especially if I am going into every one of those seasons believing we can win.

 

I love you. That is all.

 

It just doesn't work that way. If Tori Hunter's glove arm is 3 inches longer, there is no championship banner. Give me a post season team most year, and i will take my chances from there. And I will not have to suffer through excruciating 3 summers of last place.

[Kimmi]

When people say "Theo", "Ben" or "Dave" it's really just short hand for all of the front office while that GM was in charge. We'll never know to what extent Theo wanted to "feed the monster" or if it was Larry, or if Ben wanted to sign Panda or if it was ownership, or if Dave is pushing the fire sale of the farm system or if it was directed from above.

 

At the end of the day, those three guys each have good and bad things about them, but Sox fans have been lucky that they've at least been fairly competent.

 

I can be completely on board with this.

 

But I must add that Theo > Ben > Dave

[mvp 78]

It just doesn't work that way. If Tori Hunter's glove arm is 3 inches longer, there is no championship banner. Give me a post season team most year, and i will take my chances from there. And I will not have to suffer through excruciating 3 summers of last place.

 

If baseball really is "LOL random" how could 3 last place finishes with one WS every 4 years even be a thing? It's just a silly argument.

 

2013 was great. 2014 and 2015 were some s***** summers. Would rather not relive those types of years too often.

 

I'm more of a 2003 - 2008 kinda guy. Gimmie those teams.

[mvp 78]

I can be completely on board with this.

 

But I must add that Theo > Ben > Dave

 

I agree for now. If Dave wins one, he gets a bump over Ben. If he wins two, he gets a bump over Theo since Theo was given a really good team to begin with.

[Kimmi]

As I said before, give me teams that are expected to contend going into the season. This has happened every year in the Henry ownership era.

 

What I don't want is a team that we know has no chance going into the season.

[Kimmi]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/preview15/story/_/id/12588378/expert-team-predictions-2015-mlb-season

 

Who predicted the 2015 team to be contenders though?

 

You're using an ESPN poll?

[mvp 78]

You're using an ESPN poll?

 

If they were potential contenders, wouldn't some shmuck have them listed?

[a700hitter]

I love you. That is all.

 

If baseball really is "LOL random" how could 3 last place finishes with one WS every 4 years even be a thing? It's just a silly argument.

 

2013 was great. 2014 and 2015 were some s***** summers. Would rather not relive those types of years too often.

 

I'm more of a 2003 - 2008 kinda guy. Gimmie those teams.

Yes, how can we argue that the post season is a crap shoot, but root for 1 Championship for every 3 last place finishes? It is absurd. Let's not forget that those 4 years followed right on the heels of the September 2011 collapse, which might have been the most excruciating month of baseball in my lifetime. The wire to wire last place seasons were only less painful than a prison sentence in solitary.

 

2003-2008 was great baseball.

[moonslav59]

2014 Bleacher Reports for 2014:

 

1. Boston Red Sox

2. Tampa Bay Rays

3. New York Yankees

4. Baltimore Orioles

5. Toronto Blue Jays

 

The Boston Red Sox had a quiet winter but return the nucleus of a team that dominated the regular season and captured a World Series in October. A step back from excellence could occur, but not enough to knock this squad below the 90-win range. In a division without a truly great team, that could be a formula for a return trip to the postseason.

 

Vegasinsider win projectiosn

88.5 TBR

87.5 BOS

83.5 NYY

80.5 BAL

77.5 TOR

 

Fiverthirtyeight

90.0 BOS

89.5 TBR

85.5 NYY

81.6 BAL

77.4 TOR

 

Clay Davenport

90 TBR

86 BOS

85 NYY

78 TOR

77 BAL

 

[mvp 78]

2014 Bleacher Reports for 2014:

 

1. Boston Red Sox

2. Tampa Bay Rays

3. New York Yankees

4. Baltimore Orioles

5. Toronto Blue Jays

 

The Boston Red Sox had a quiet winter but return the nucleus of a team that dominated the regular season and captured a World Series in October. A step back from excellence could occur, but not enough to knock this squad below the 90-win range. In a division without a truly great team, that could be a formula for a return trip to the postseason.

 

Vegasinsider win projectiosn

88.5 TBR

87.5 BOS

83.5 NYY

80.5 BAL

77.5 TOR

 

Fiverthirtyeight

90.0 BOS

89.5 TBR

85.5 NYY

81.6 BAL

77.4 TOR

 

Clay Davenport

90 TBR

86 BOS

85 NYY

78 TOR

77 BAL

 

 

That's 2014 though?

[Dojji]

Just gonna leave this here

[Dojji]

this too

[moonslav59]

The Sporting News projected the Sox would win the wild card in 2012.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sporting News projected the Sox would win the wild card in 2012.

 

What is the track record of each sports publication and website's preseason predictions though? That's what I'd like to see some time.

[Bellhorn04]

Unfortunately the team's disastrous 2014 season made the 2013 season look like it was indeed incredibly lucky. Just about everything that went right in 2013 went wrong in 2014/2015.

 

Like Victorino, Napoli and Drew. Great seasons in 2013, but that was the end of them.

[moonslav59]

What is the track record of each sports publication and website's preseason predictions though? That's what I'd like to see some time.

 

I'm not sure.

 

I just know a lot of baseball publications or shows thought we'd be competitive those years.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think it's too difficult to construct an argument that Ben's 2013 title was built on a combination of players he inherited-Papi, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester and Lackey, and the lightning-in-a-bottle short term success of Victorino, Napoli, Drew and Koji. There's nothing wrong with being lucky of course. But when Ben's luck went bad it really went bad.

[moonslav59]

That's 2014 though?

 

Yes, a year we finished last.

 

A year some claim Ben gave us no chance at competing.

[Bellhorn04]

It really stung having seasons of 69-93 and 71-91. It was embarrassing.

 

Especially when the MFY's haven't finished under .500 since 1992.

[Kimmi]

I agree for now. If Dave wins one, he gets a bump over Ben. If he wins two, he gets a bump over Theo since Theo was given a really good team to begin with.

 

Theo was given a really good team to begin with, but so was Dave.

 

For me, there is no way Dave ever gets the bump over Theo.

[moonslav59]

I don't think it's too difficult to construct an argument that Ben's 2013 title was built on a combination of players he inherited-Papi, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester and Lackey, and the lightning-in-a-bottle short term success of Victorino, Napoli, Drew and Koji. There's nothing wrong with being lucky of course. But when Ben's luck went bad it really went bad.

 

True.

 

Koji's success was more than short-term, though.

 

Speaking of luck, had HRam and Porcello had their 2016 season in 2015, Ben might still be here.

[Bellhorn04]

True.

 

Koji's success was more than short-term, though.

 

Speaking of luck, had HRam and Porcello had their 2016 season in 2015, Ben might still be here.

 

It seems to be the case that Ben's acquisitions tended to vary wildly in performance. And those were the good ones.

[Kimmi]

If they were potential contenders, wouldn't some shmuck have them listed?

 

1. Some schmuck out of the 15 listed did pick the Red Sox.

 

2. Out of the 88 'experts' polled, and I quote: "In the American League East, the Boston Red Sox came out on top by receiving 36 votes followed by the Baltimore Orioles (30), Toronto Blue Jays (17), New York Yankees (4) and Tampa Bay Rays (1)."

 

3. I looked up the 3 computer projection systems that I always reference. Fangraphs had the Sox winning the division with 88 wins. PECOTA had the Sox winning the division with 87 wins, and Davenport had the Sox and Os tying for the division with 85 wins. Links provided to each site below.

 

https://imgur.com/a/NasJN#VdSlkXU

 

http://www.edgevegas.com/2015-mlb-season-win-total-pecota-projections/

 

http://claydavenport.com/projections/2015/PROJHOME.shtml

 

 

4. I didn't look any further than that, but I think I'd find more of the same.

[notin]

The substance of events was that Ben was replaced by DD as de facto head of business operations.

 

So who replaced Lucchino as the Corporate Scapegoat?

[notin]

It really stung having seasons of 69-93 and 71-91. It was embarrassing.

 

Especially when the MFY's haven't finished under .500 since 1992.

 

Well if we didn’t go 71-91, we might not have Benintendi. If you want a glass that’s half full...

[Bellhorn04]

So who replaced Lucchino as the Corporate Scapegoat?

 

Nobody can replace Larry.

[Kimmi]

Unfortunately the team's disastrous 2014 season made the 2013 season look like it was indeed incredibly lucky. Just about everything that went right in 2013 went wrong in 2014/2015.

 

Like Victorino, Napoli and Drew. Great seasons in 2013, but that was the end of them.

 

I beg to differ. I don't think 2013 was any more lucky than most World Series years are in terms of getting the health and the performances that you expect.

 

2014 and 2015 were indeed incredibly unlucky.

[Kimmi]

So who replaced Lucchino as the Corporate Scapegoat?

 

Dombrowski