Dave Dombrowski

[Bellhorn04]

What were your expectations going into that season?

 

I didn't know what to expect myself, especially since I hated the Sandoval signing. But I don't think last place looked obvious.

 

(Not to mention, simply calling them last place does ignore that the team won 78 games, a very rare high amount for a last place team. They were essentially a .500 ball club, not a 60-102 team.)

 

I really didn't know what to expect before 2015. I was shocked when Pablo and Hanley were announced on the same day and I was doubly shocked when Ben assembled that rotation. I thought it could go well or it might go very wrong. That's what I mean about Ben and his X factors.

[mvp 78]

The Sports marketplace is the best indicator of performance. If you are good , you get a job. Ben got fired as GM and despite the large number of GM openings that off season, no one offered him their GM job. That speaks volumes and it is a pretty good indicator of what people thought of the job that he did as GM. Three years late and still he is a coffee caddy.

 

Hard to be offered a job if you aren't looking. Ben probably needed a rest and he had enough money to enjoy his time off. Can't fault him for that. He ended up getting a pretty good gig eventually anyway.

 

It's not like he was doing off-Broadway with Duquette.

 

http://www.iberkshires.com/story/11142/Former-Red-Sox-GM-Dan-Duquette-to-star-in-Damn-Yankees-.html

[mvp 78]

I remember a lot of people criticizing Epstein as someone who rode to his success on a team built by Duquette. Of course, if we do this same exercise with those two GMs, DD is a distant second.

 

My only criticism of Dombrowski is he has really mortgaged the future for this team to win now, not only by emptying the farm but also by tying up a lot of his limited resources with David Price. And what some people overlook with the prospects is that while they won't all be All Stars, they will all make minimum wage for 3 years. And if they can play at a reasonable level and make no money, it makes it easier to retain Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, etc.

 

I know a lot of fans will say they don't care about the future, but I can promise you all of them will when it gets here. Which it will.

 

Give me David Price over Hanley and Pablo 7 days a week.

[Spudboy]

Scoreboard . Look at the Red Sox won / loss records under Cherington and under Dombrowski . No contest. I guess now we will hear that wins and losses are overrated. They don't matter very much. Other things are more important , etc.

 

Lol.

[notin]

At the time Porcello was the 4.25 Career ERA pitcher with 1,300 innings under his belt. He was no ace and still is not an ace. And the rest of the staff was Turkey turd. If Porcello had performed, we would have been a 4 th place team. He didn’t perform so we finished last. That team had no chance of contending.

 

At the time, Porcello was also 26 years old and still developing. For point of reference, Jalen Beeks is 25 and I think at a minimum we can agree his future is still TBD.

 

Really, Porcello is still only 29, which seems crazy for how long he has been around...

[notin]

Give me David Price over Hanley and Pablo 7 days a week.

 

I can agree on that.

 

But then a 30yo David Price at $31mill for 7 years is absolutely going to be a problematic contract at some point. Some say it already is.

 

And really, the poor contracts for Sandoval and Hanley don't excuse Price's, which could be catastrophic at the wrong time. i.e when Betts is ready for free agency...

[mvp 78]

I can agree on that.

 

But then a 30yo David Price at $31mill for 7 years is absolutely going to be a problematic contract at some point. Some say it already is.

 

And really, the poor contracts for Sandoval and Hanley don't excuse Price's, which could be catastrophic at the wrong time. i.e when Betts is ready for free agency...

 

If Price can just stay healthy, it won't be as onerous as the Hanley and Sandoval deals. Price eats innings for breakfast and has a lot of value to the team. I'm still worried about his arm falling apart tho.

 

Interesting that he isn't spouting off this year like he had in previous years under Farrell...

[a700hitter]

I remember a lot of people criticizing Epstein as someone who rode to his success on a team built by Duquette. Of course, if we do this same exercise with those two GMs, DD is a distant second.

 

My only criticism of Dombrowski is he has really mortgaged the future for this team to win now, not only by emptying the farm but also by tying up a lot of his limited resources with David Price. And what some people overlook with the prospects is that while they won't all be All Stars, they will all make minimum wage for 3 years. And if they can play at a reasonable level and make no money, it makes it easier to retain Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, etc.

 

I know a lot of fans will say they don't care about the future, but I can promise you all of them will when it gets here. Which it will.

The mortgaged the future argument is pretty empty as the guys he gave up except for 1 guy currently in AA, no one that he traded is looking great at their level. If we had kept those guys, there is just as much credence in the statement that the future would have been bleak.

[a700hitter]

If Price can just stay healthy, it won't be as onerous as the Hanley and Sandoval deals. Price eats innings for breakfast and has a lot of value to the team. I'm still worried about his arm falling apart tho.

 

Interesting that he isn't spouting off this year like he had in previous years under Farrell...

price has already produced more value than Sandoval and Hanley combined.

[a700hitter]

At the time, Porcello was also 26 years old and still developing. For point of reference, Jalen Beeks is 25 and I think at a minimum we can agree his future is still TBD.

 

Really, Porcello is still only 29, which seems crazy for how long he has been around...

And he will never be the #1 pitcher on a Championship team. He had 1,300 innings at the MLB level when we got him. After 3 plus years of him, he is still a 4.25 ERA pitcher. There wasn’t going to be a huge development in his production after having so many innings under his belt. It just doesn’t happen.

[notin]

The mortgaged the future argument is pretty empty as the guys he gave up except for 1 guy currently in AA, no one that he traded is looking great at their level. If we had kept those guys, there is just as much credence in the statement that the future would have been bleak.

 

Possible.

 

But like I pointed out, the value in many pf the players comes with their ability to play MLB level ball for no money. Moncada, Kopech and Margot might not be Pedroia, Kimbrel and Bradley. But by playing well enough for a combined $1.2mill, they make keeping Betts around easier. If the Sox have to spend $10mill or $20mill replacing some of the departing players, keeping Betts and company gets more difficult. And simply using other minor leaguers in their place does keep the money down, but would you rather have Moncada, Kopech and Margot? Or Tony Renda, Aneury Tavares, and Willaim Cuevas?

[Bellhorn04]

price has already produced more value than Sandoval and Hanley combined.

 

more value than Sandoval, Hanley and Castillo combined.

[a700hitter]

Possible.

 

But like I pointed out, the value in many pf the players comes with their ability to play MLB level ball for no money. Moncada, Kopech and Margot might not be Pedroia, Kimbrel and Bradley. But by playing well enough for a combined $1.2mill, they make keeping Betts around easier. If the Sox have to spend $10mill or $20mill replacing some of the departing players, keeping Betts and company gets more difficult. And simply using other minor leaguers in their place does keep the money down, but would you rather have Moncada, Kopech and Margot? Or Tony Renda, Aneury Tavares, and Willaim Cuevas?

Those guys plus Betts is not a good team. LOL

[notin]

Those guys plus Betts is not a good team. LOL

 

Maybe not, maybe both sets are horrible. But I have more faith in Betts and the first set than Betts and the second one...

[notin]

more value than Sandoval, Hanley and Castillo combined.

 

Some of us still think the jury is still out on Castillo. Not that he will ever be an All Star, but I think he can be a positive contributor at the MLB level.

 

And I can keep that faith forever, knowing he will more than likely never get the chance to prove me wrong...

[Bellhorn04]

Some of us still think the jury is still out on Castillo.

 

But most of the money is already down the tube.

[notin]

And he will never be the #1 pitcher on a Championship team. He had 1,300 innings at the MLB level when we got him. After 3 plus years of him, he is still a 4.25 ERA pitcher. There wasn’t going to be a huge development in his production after having so many innings under his belt. It just doesn’t happen.

 

Using just ERA mighr be unfair, asDetroit is an easier ballpark for a pitcher.

 

His ERA+ went from 97 in Detroit to 109 in Boston. That's actually a pretty nice improvement. He got better than an additional 1/8 of the pitchers in the league in the past 3 years on ERA alone...

[notin]

But most of the money is already down the tube.

 

Only from Henry's bank account and not where it matters to Dombrowski and us fans...

[mvp 78]

Kopech 2018 AAA:

 

4.70 ERA, 111 K, 56 BB, WHIP 1.43

 

Let's not act like Kopech is a sure thing to be a good starter.

 

Moncada is -1.2 oWAR, -1.0 dWAR in 2018 (34.9 K%) and 2 years older than Devers.

 

Margot is a good defensive player (not as good as JBJ) and a bad offensive player (worse than JBJ).

[Kimmi]

Theo is the GOAT GM.

He brought a parade to the downtrodden and desperate Red Sox fans...twice. And then just for gits & shiggles he gave the cubbies fans a parade too.

Dave Dombrowski would be lucky to be Theo’s coffee boy.....

 

+100

[Kimmi]

Rings have nothing to do with anything.

 

Last place finishes have nothing to do with anything, when the last place finishes were flukes.

[Kimmi]

2013 played way above their heads and only made the WS due to Papi becoming the greatest player that ever lived.

 

2014 played under their heads by a little bit.

 

The 2015 squad just flat out sucked though.

 

And yet, they were projected to win their division.

 

That they sucked is not Ben's fault.

[Kimmi]

Scoreboard . Look at the Red Sox won / loss records under Cherington and under Dombrowski . No contest. I guess now we will hear that wins and losses are overrated. They don't matter very much. Other things are more important , etc.

 

The teams that won under Dombrowski are compliments of Theo and Ben.

[Kimmi]

I remember a lot of people criticizing Epstein as someone who rode to his success on a team built by Duquette. Of course, if we do this same exercise with those two GMs, DD is a distant second.

 

My only criticism of Dombrowski is he has really mortgaged the future for this team to win now, not only by emptying the farm but also by tying up a lot of his limited resources with David Price. And what some people overlook with the prospects is that while they won't all be All Stars, they will all make minimum wage for 3 years. And if they can play at a reasonable level and make no money, it makes it easier to retain Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, etc.

 

I know a lot of fans will say they don't care about the future, but I can promise you all of them will when it gets here. Which it will.

 

+200

[mvp 78]

Last place finishes have nothing to do with anything, when the last place finishes were flukes.

 

That's not true. Last place finishes ruin summers and hurt overall attendance for the end of that season and the start of the following season.

 

2015 wasn't a fluke. That team stunk.

[mvp 78]

And yet, they were projected to win their division.

 

That they sucked is not Ben's fault.

 

In 2014 they were projected to, not in 2015.

 

If an organization fails, the person to take the blame is always the guy at the top.

[Kimmi]

That's not true. Last place finishes ruin summers and hurt overall attendance for the end of that season and the start of the following season.

 

2015 wasn't a fluke. That team stunk.

 

They did stink. That they stunk is a fluke.

 

And if last place finishes matter because they ruin summers and hurt attendance, then rings matter for the opposite reasons.

[Kimmi]

In 2014 they were projected to, not in 2015.

 

If an organization fails, the person to take the blame is always the guy at the top.

 

Did you read the projections that I posted to you?

 

Even the ESPN poll that you posted yourself had the Sox winning the division.

[mvp 78]

They did stink. That they stunk is a fluke.

 

And if last place finishes matter because they ruin summers and hurt attendance, then rings matter for the opposite reasons.

 

The sting of losing hurts as much as the glory of winning.

 

Give me a competitive team with the potential to win it all for the next 10 years over 2 rings and 8 last place finishes.

[mvp 78]

Did you read the projections that I posted to you?

 

Even the ESPN poll that you posted yourself had the Sox winning the division.

 

I don't read fake news.