Dave Dombrowski

[Tedballgame]

I keep reading posts and articles where people give Dave Dombrowski grief for trading prospects. It should be noted that 4 of the 5 Red Sox all stars were either traded for by Dave or signed as a FA. None of the prospects he has traded have really amounted to much so far. His July trades last year were all good and his trade for Steve Pearce this year is already looking like gold. The Sox have won back to back AL East titles and have the best record in MLB. Dave Dombrowski is doing a great job.

[Spudboy]

I keep reading posts and articles where people give Dave Dombrowski grief for trading prospects. It should be noted that 4 of the 5 Red Sox all stars were either traded for by Dave or signed as a FA. None of the prospects he has traded have really amounted to much so far. His July trades last year were all good and his trade for Steve Pearce this year is already looking like gold. The Sox have won back to back AL East titles and have the best record in MLB. Dave Dombrowski is doing a great job.

 

But the cliff!!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

But the cliff!!!!!!!

Damn that Dave! He picked us up out of the abyss only to point us straight at a cliff.

[cp176]

Damn that Dave! He picked us up out of the abyss only to point us straight at a cliff.

 

damn that "desperate Dave" lol - Kansas City adopted the Houston mehod of building primarily from within and it worked for a while for them. How's it looking these days? There is no one perfect way to produce winners year after year. I like the Red Sox way. Combination.

[Kimmi]

I keep reading posts and articles where people give Dave Dombrowski grief for trading prospects. It should be noted that 4 of the 5 Red Sox all stars were either traded for by Dave or signed as a FA. None of the prospects he has traded have really amounted to much so far. His July trades last year were all good and his trade for Steve Pearce this year is already looking like gold. The Sox have won back to back AL East titles and have the best record in MLB. Dave Dombrowski is doing a great job.

 

There is no grief and no argument whatsoever about how great a job Dombrowski has done for the present.

 

It's the impending cliff that some of us have a problem with.

[Kimmi]

damn that "desperate Dave" lol - Kansas City adopted the Houston mehod of building primarily from within and it worked for a while for them. How's it looking these days? There is no one perfect way to produce winners year after year. I like the Red Sox way. Combination.

 

Except Dave is not using a combination.

[Spudboy]

There you go Ted.

[Bellhorn04]

We are going to see a lot of posts that look very familiar here.

[mvp 78]

[Tedballgame]

What star has he traded? Moncada leads the league in strike outs. He may never be great. Shaw has been good but its hard to hit on every trade. Sox are fine at first and third so where would Shaw play? Thornburg has to work his way back. Kopech is struggling in AAA. The guys he traded to San Diego for Kimbrel were never going to play for the Sox. Anderson Espinosa has not pitched in 2 years. What "Stars" has he traded away? Moncada would be the closest and the Sox got Sale for him. That was a great trade. Dave is not taking the Sox toward any cliff. The key will be signing all or most of Sale, Bogaerts, Betts, and Kimbrel.

[a700hitter]

What star has he traded? Moncada leads the league in strike outs. He may never be great. Shaw has been good but its hard to hit on every trade. Sox are fine at first and third so where would Shaw play? Thornburg has to work his way back. Kopech is struggling in AAA. The guys he traded to San Diego for Kimbrel were never going to play for the Sox. Anderson Espinosa has not pitched in 2 years. What "Stars" has he traded away? Moncada would be the closest and the Sox got Sale for him. That was a great trade. Dave is not taking the Sox toward any cliff. The key will be signing all or most of Sale, Bogaerts, Betts, and Kimbrel.

And he didn't trade Benintendi or Devers.

[dgalehouse]

The longing for the days of Ben Cherington is one of life's mysteries. The team's turnaround with Dombrowski was immediate and impressive. Sale , Kimbrel and Martinez are among the best in the game. Possible Hall of Famers. The traded prospects , for the most part , have achieved little or nothing. If he had held onto them , their trade value would be less today than it was then. Dombrowski is much preferable to Cherington. I don't see how that can be disputed.

[Jack Flap]

We are going to see a lot of posts that look very familiar here.

 

Can't wait to rehash the Kimbrel trade for the 987th time, and read a few doctoral dissertations on the Cliff Theory.

[Slasher9]

DD has done exactly what most of us said he would do on the day the Red Sox hired him. He has decimated/traded away the Farm. If it turns into at least 1 parade it’s worth it. ALE titles are NOT worth it IMO....

[mvp 78]

I'd rather a decimated farm system than 3 last place finishes in 4 years. Those were some s***** summers.

[dgalehouse]

Farms are meant to be decimated. Come harvest time , it is time to reap. The crops won't last forever. You keep what you need and take the rest to market to get what you can for them. Then you can plant the seeds anew. That is exactly what Dombrowski has done .

[jd98]

There is no grief and no argument whatsoever about how great a job Dombrowski has done for the present.

 

It's the impending cliff that some of us have a problem with.

 

So worst case, after 4 or more playoff years, the cliff actually happens. Sox have to do a rebuild and will suck for a few years. Might even be a 5 year plan. I thought you liked that because you're always praising Ben for doing it. Should be a win-win for you.

[Jack Flap]

At the end of the day, we traded a lot of bodies, but quantity does not equal quality. One issue I have with the "cliff" and "depleted farm" narratives is that they make it sound as if keeping all those guys around would have vastly improved our long-term outlook, which I think is far from evident. If you think we're headed for a rough patch somewhere around 2020-2021, then I doubt still having Manny Margot, Javier Guerra, the Basabe brothers, et. al. would change that much.

 

Meanwhile, the White Sox trade where we did give up the most quality could end up the biggest win of all, given how incredible Sale has been and the uncertainty that still surrounds Moncada and Kopech.

 

Speaking as someone who fully admits his own bias towards building through homegrown talent, Dombrowski's trades have by and large been shrewd ones, and as I've said before, he's showed a discretion and patience at times (see his refusal to trade Benintendi or Devers, or putting Bryan Mata off limits in the Sale talks even before he was on the radar as a serious prospect) that has impressed me and really puts the lie to his "Desperate Dave" reputation. It's tough to find a whole lot to go back and quibble with, particularly as we enjoy watching what may well be the first 100-win Red Sox team in most of our lifetimes.

 

Of course, it seems Dave will ultimately be judged by whether he delivers a title in the next several years, but for the moment, it's hard not to see his body of work in Boston as overwhelmingly positive.

[Spudboy]

The longing for the days of Ben Cherington is one of life's mysteries. The team's turnaround with Dombrowski was immediate and impressive. Sale , Kimbrel and Martinez are among the best in the game. Possible Hall of Famers. The traded prospects , for the most part , have achieved little or nothing. If he had held onto them , their trade value would be less today than it was then. Dombrowski is much preferable to Cherington. I don't see how that can be disputed.

 

I love this post.

[Spudboy]

So worst case, after 4 or more playoff years, the cliff actually happens. Sox have to do a rebuild and will suck for a few years. Might even be a 5 year plan. I thought you liked that because you're always praising Ben for doing it. Should be a win-win for you.

 

If nothing else Kimmi should appreciate your use of math!

[Spudboy]

At the end of the day, we traded a lot of bodies, but quantity does not equal quality. One issue I have with the "cliff" and "depleted farm" narratives is that they make it sound as if keeping all those guys around would have vastly improved our long-term outlook, which I think is far from evident. If you think we're headed for a rough patch somewhere around 2020-2021, then I doubt still having Manny Margot, Javier Guerra, the Basabe brothers, et. al. would change that much.

 

Meanwhile, the White Sox trade where we did give up the most quality could end up the biggest win of all, given how incredible Sale has been and the uncertainty that still surrounds Moncada and Kopech.

 

Speaking as someone who fully admits his own bias towards building through homegrown talent, Dombrowski's trades have by and large been shrewd ones, and as I've said before, he's showed a discretion and patience at times (see his refusal to trade Benintendi or Devers, or putting Bryan Mata off limits in the Sale talks even before he was on the radar as a serious prospect) that has impressed me and really puts the lie to his "Desperate Dave" reputation. It's tough to find a whole lot to go back and quibble with, particularly as we enjoy watching what may well be the first 100-win Red Sox team in most of our lifetimes.

 

Of course, it seems Dave will ultimately be judged by whether he delivers a title in the next several years, but for the moment, it's hard not to see his body of work in Boston as overwhelmingly positive.

 

Another well thought out and well written post.

 

Good stuff.

[Kimmi]

The longing for the days of Ben Cherington is one of life's mysteries. The team's turnaround with Dombrowski was immediate and impressive. Sale , Kimbrel and Martinez are among the best in the game. Possible Hall of Famers. The traded prospects , for the most part , have achieved little or nothing. If he had held onto them , their trade value would be less today than it was then. Dombrowski is much preferable to Cherington. I don't see how that can be disputed.

 

It's not a longing for Cherington, it's a longing for a strong farm system.

 

The turnaround would have happened regardless of who was GM in 2016. The time was right for it to happen, not to mention both the 2014 and 2015 teams were better than they performed.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it's possible to build a contender without decimating the farm. Overpaying for free agents or for players through trade doesn't impress me.

[Kimmi]

DD has done exactly what most of us said he would do on the day the Red Sox hired him. He has decimated/traded away the Farm. If it turns into at least 1 parade it’s worth it. ALE titles are NOT worth it IMO....

 

Completely agree.

[Kimmi]

I'd rather a decimated farm system than 3 last place finishes in 4 years. Those were some s***** summers.

 

Throw out 2012 completely. It doesn't count.

 

Yes, it stinks finishing in last place. However, neither of those teams should have been that bad. They were both projected to be contenders, and the 2014 team was the overwhelming favorite to win the division.

 

In fact, since Henry bought the team, every team assembled has been projected to be a contender. That's really all you can ask of your GM (and your owner). The GM has done his job. Sometimes, with baseball being the fluky game that it is, things don't go according to plan. I can live with that.

 

What I don't want happening is to know, going into the season, that your team has no chance. #thecliffisreal

[Kimmi]

Farms are meant to be decimated. Come harvest time , it is time to reap. The crops won't last forever. You keep what you need and take the rest to market to get what you can for them. Then you can plant the seeds anew. That is exactly what Dombrowski has done .

 

No, they're not meant to be decimated. Yes, they are meant to be used in trade, but that can be done without decimation.

[Kimmi]

So worst case, after 4 or more playoff years, the cliff actually happens. Sox have to do a rebuild and will suck for a few years. Might even be a 5 year plan. I thought you liked that because you're always praising Ben for doing it. Should be a win-win for you.

 

The years in which Ben's teams lost were not cliff years. The teams, on paper, were strong contenders. I realize that the games still need to be played, but the talent was there. There is a difference between having a contending team that doesn't make it for one reason or another versus having a team that has no chance before the season even starts.

[Bellhorn04]

The pitching staff Ben assembled for the 2015 season was not his finest work.

[CharlieWhigg]

I keep reading posts and articles where people give Dave Dombrowski grief for trading prospects. It should be noted that 4 of the 5 Red Sox all stars were either traded for by Dave or signed as a FA. None of the prospects he has traded have really amounted to much so far. His July trades last year were all good and his trade for Steve Pearce this year is already looking like gold. The Sox have won back to back AL East titles and have the best record in MLB. Dave Dombrowski is doing a great job.

People really don't understand that it costs something to get something. The Thornburg trade was a disaster, and he bought high on Pomeranz, but aside from that every trade has, at the very least, been a win-win

[cp176]

I love this post.

 

yup - me too - an adult is in charge of the f***ing hen house. he gets it.

[cp176]

DD has done exactly what most of us said he would do on the day the Red Sox hired him. He has decimated/traded away the Farm. If it turns into at least 1 parade it’s worth it. ALE titles are NOT worth it IMO....

 

Sorry Slash ( and I like you too) but we finally have a competent GM who will lead us into the future. I'm not buying this crap about decimating the farm at all. I have complete faith that he will stick handle things and this team will compete for as long as he is here. To me personally putting a team in a position to win every year isn't that easy. He has done and will continue to do so. For gawd sake, Ben Cherington was not ready for the big job. If he was, he certainly would be a household name on the big stage by now.