Hanley DFA’d

[Dalas21000]

I am still kind of disappointed though abt the HanRam situation....If there was anyway possible to keep him, they should have done so....I'd rather see him on the bench than gone...Swihart doing good today but you're gonna tell me he's the new DH?

[Dalas21000]

One of them he came into the game in a really s***** situation because Barnes and Hembree suck.. and Chapman also has a blown save in less chances, guess he's just okay too.

 

I don't care how many chances Chapman has had....He dominated Boston and is dominating every other team he faces......It shouldn't matter what other relievers are doing if he's that good should it?

[Spudboy]

And what is your basis for that?

 

His basis is his abundant knowledge of the game.

 

You make no sense and provide no evidence to back you assertions. If you really wish to discuss Kimbrel go look at his career stats on BBR and try to understand the obvious conclusion that Kimbrel has been either the top closer or one of the very best closers in MLB since about when he first broke in.

[Dalas21000]

I agree. It is near impossible to find a 0.2 WAR player for less than 25 million, and it was near impossible to replace that -0.2 WAR he provided last year.

 

WAR player??? What are you talking about?

[Spudboy]

This guy is a schnook and a troll.

[Dalas21000]

His basis is his abundant knowledge of the game.

 

You make no sense and provide no evidence to back you assertions. If you really wish to discuss Kimbrel go look at his career stats on BBR and try to understand the obvious conclusion that Kimbrel has been either the top closer or one of the very best closers in MLB since about when he first broke in.

 

O yeah? Who is that? Do you actually know the person?

[Dalas21000]

Too many people on here Gettin all Stat happy.....Don't understand the game that well but wanna use big terms like War players etc......When you know the game well you don't always need stats to understand who's good and whos not...You watch the game and observe

[Jasonbay44]

Yeah, I'm not continuing this. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or are a horrible troll.

[Dalas21000]

Yeah, I'm not continuing this. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about or are a horrible troll.

 

We will talk again at playoff time when Kimbrel is blowing saves and Chapman is saving them

[a700hitter]

We will talk again at playoff time when Kimbrel is blowing saves and Chapman is saving them

See ya

[Dalas21000]

Lesson of the day:Don't let stats blind your understanding of sports. Let them enhance it.

[devildavid]

Hanley always was an enormous talent.....mostly wasted by an overemphasis on showing us that talent on rare spurts, like he was pacing himself always. He is sort of an Albert Haynesworth of baseball.

 

But he miscalculated I think. He probably thought he could cruise through the season and stage a run of decent hitting later in the season as he has done before. But the Sox could not afford that even in trying to make a run to the post season. They simply could not afford to just throw that much money down a rat hole on the chance that they would even get that late run. IMO father time has finally caught up to Hanley at least to the extent of being able to turn it on and turn it off as he so often did or more likely Hanley just miscalculated.

 

More likely Hanley just miscalculated because he left the Sox so few options. They could not send him to the minors. They could not sit him for extended periods. They could not even really drop him in the order. Nothing made sense. But you have to credit them for seeing it. Hanley might have even made it easier for them. Do we really think Hanley would have reacted well to being told he was losing playing time?

 

I don't see that. Hanley, at this stage of his career, is performing the best that he is capable of.

[S5Dewey]

Lesson of the day:Don't let stats blind your understanding of sports. Let them enhance it.

 

That's probably the only thing Dalas has said that I agree with.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Dalas finally exposed himself as a Yankee fan on the troll.

[Natick to NC]

We will talk again at playoff time when Kimbrel is blowing saves and Chapman is saving them

 

Are you f***ing high kid ?? Red mamba will be fine .

[Jack Flap]

Too many people on here Gettin all Stat happy.....Don't understand the game that well but wanna use big terms like War players etc......When you know the game well you don't always need stats to understand who's good and whos not...You watch the game and observe

 

Lol.

[Bellhorn04]

Too many people on here Gettin all Stat happy.....Don't understand the game that well but wanna use big terms like War players etc......When you know the game well you don't always need stats to understand who's good and whos not...You watch the game and observe

 

Lol.

 

Dalas is channeling Yogi Berra: "You can observe a lot by watching".

[OH FOY]

Too many people on here Gettin all Stat happy.....Don't understand the game that well but wanna use big terms like War players etc......When you know the game well you don't always need stats to understand who's good and whos not...You watch the game and observe

 

Agree, 100%. You go to Minor League games and you watch, for Example Devers, saw him a bunch at Double AA. Got the Arm, has the desire, just a little out of synch. Now. You expect that, his age, and just hasn't played enough for repetitions. Made sure I was close to him between innings, about strength of arm and accuracy, with no runner going down the line. He has it. For sure, at this stage he's rushing it though. He's going to turn into a Gem for the Sox.

Good Scouts look at little things, give a Crap about stats.

Edited May 26, 2018 by OH FOY!

[jad]

Hanley Ramirez, through his agent, negotiated the vesting option, which is of value to the player. I question whether the vesting option can simply disappear any more than the 2018 salary of $22 million can disappear if Ramirez signs with another club upon release.

 

Other clubs would be unlikely to sign Ramirez if the vesting option transfers over to the new club (at least until July or August when the ultimate vesting becomes unlikely). Would Ramirez have a grievance if the designation-for-assignment effectively prevented the option from vesting when he was on pace for the option to vest?

 

I hope the Red Sox contract with Ramirez addresses that specific contingency.

 

I have to think that once he signs a new contract (which he would have to do if released), that supersedes the details of the old (except for the actual money owed). That would mean no team will trade for him, but he would easily find a new team once released. (There may be specific language in the contract about this? although I'm not sure the union allows for any reduction in the perks of a contract the player signs under any circumstance).

 

It would be bizarre if the vesting option remained after he was released. This would essentially prevent anyone from picking him up this year until there was no chance of him making 497 (which is what I assume would happen). This was the sort of thing the Players Union tries to avoid, but obviously unforeseen circumstances occur (e.g., like Castillo essentially being stuck in the minors, w/ barely a chance to prove himself on the next level).

[OH FOY]

Many Fans will compare a Player to a Finish Product. A Rookie who doesn't have the time serviced, cant be Compared to say a Adrian Beltre. You see great Fielder like him, Fans expect too much from a Rookie. Those are the stat guys. Your suppose to have patience, and look at Progress. Edited May 26, 2018 by OH FOY!

[harmony]

I have to think that once he signs a new contract (which he would have to do if released), that supersedes the details of the old (except for the actual money owed). That would mean no team will trade for him, but he would easily find a new team once released. (There may be specific language in the contract about this? although I'm not sure the union allows for any reduction in the perks of a contract the player signs under any circumstance).

 

It would be bizarre if the vesting option remained after he was released. This would essentially prevent anyone from picking him up this year until there was no chance of him making 497 (which is what I assume would happen). This was the sort of thing the Players Union tries to avoid, but obviously unforeseen circumstances occur (e.g., like Castillo essentially being stuck in the minors, w/ barely a chance to prove himself on the next level).

Evan Drellich of NBC Sports Boston offers his analysis of the issue:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/drellich-dombrowski-didnt-need-cora-buffer-avoid-hanley-grievance

 

In 1986 Howard Cosell addressed the issue of Dennis Lamp's option:

 

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1986-09-17/sports/8602250111_1_dennis-lamp-collusion-blue-jays-management

Edited May 27, 2018 by harmony

[jad]

Evan Drellich of NBC Sports Boston offers his analysis of the issue:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/drellich-dombrowski-didnt-need-cora-buffer-avoid-hanley-grievance

 

In 1986 Howard Cosell addressed the issue of Dennis Lamp's option:

 

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1986-09-17/sports/8602250111_1_dennis-lamp-collusion-blue-jays-management

 

Thanks. Drelich claims the vesting option isn't there if Hanley is released (but he doesn't really offer any evidence or discussion of this). I don't see why the Players Union would accept this. Do incentive clauses (which are an important part of many contracts) disappear when a player is released? (i.e., the clause says something like: if Hanley has 497 PA for the RS or for any team that he is traded to or acquires him through waivers). If not, I can't see why the union wouldn't claim those incentives are an essential part of the contract and the RS are on the hook if he achieves them.

[harmony]

Thanks. Drelich claims the vesting option isn't there if Hanley is released (but he doesn't really offer any evidence or discussion of this). I don't see why the Players Union would accept this. Do incentive clauses (which are an important part of many contracts) disappear when a player is released? (i.e., the clause says something like: if Hanley has 497 PA for the RS or for any team that he is traded to or acquires him through waivers). If not, I can't see why the union wouldn't claim those incentives are an essential part of the contract and the RS are on the hook if he achieves them.

I tend to agree with you ... it doesn't pass the smell test.

 

I wonder whether the Red Sox contract with Hanley Ramirez specifically addressed that contingency and whether changes in the MLB Collective Bargaining would produce a result different from that suffered by Dennis Lamp in 1986.

[a700hitter]

I tend to agree with you ... it doesn't pass the smell test.

 

I wonder whether the Red Sox contract with Hanley Ramirez specifically addressed that contingency and whether changes in the MLB Collective Bargaining would produce a result different from that suffered by Dennis Lamp in 1986.

I have no reason to doubt the reports on this as it would make perfect sense. The option would vest if he met certain performance objectives with the Red Sox in 2018.

[jad]

I have no reason to doubt the reports on this as it would make perfect sense. The option would vest if he met certain performance objectives with the Red Sox in 2018.

 

Some reports (again casually) state that in a TRADE or waiver pick up, all details come w/ contract, including incentives: i.e., 497 plate appearances Punkt. Which also makes sense.

 

(We'll probably find out in a few days, as surely this was something considered in detail by Sox management.)

[S5Dewey]

Some reports (again casually) state that in a TRADE or waiver pick up, all details come w/ contract, including incentives: i.e., 497 plate appearances Punkt. Which also makes sense.

 

(We'll probably find out in a few days, as surely this was something considered in detail by Sox management.)

 

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I don't see a scenario where the Sox didn't know exactly what they were doing and the ramifications of it before they DFA's Hanely.

[a700hitter]

Some reports (again casually) state that in a TRADE or waiver pick up, all details come w/ contract, including incentives: i.e., 497 plate appearances Punkt. Which also makes sense.

 

(We'll probably find out in a few days, as surely this was something considered in detail by Sox management.)

I think that the Red Sox would have had more patience with him if another team could trigger the option. If they kept him, they would control whether or not the option would vest.

[moonslav59]

Steve Adams writes...

 

 

As with any player who has been designated for assignment, the Red Sox will have a week to trade Ramirez, place him on outright waivers or release him. Given the remaining $15.17MM on this year’s $22MM salary and that easily attainable vesting option, it’s all but certain that Ramirez will be released rather than sent elsewhere. At that point, he’d be free to sign a new contract with a new club that would only owe him the pro-rated league minimum and wouldn’t need to worry about the vesting provision in his prior agreement in Boston.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Sandoval, Ramirez introduced by Sox

Nov 26, 2014

ESPN.com news services

 

BOSTON -- Pablo Sandoval and Hanley Ramirez spent the past two seasons as NL West rivals. Now they're teammates, signing with the Boston Red Sox as free agents to try to boost Boston out of the AL East cellar.

"It's exciting for me to be with Hanley and David Ortiz," Sandoval said Tuesday, adding that the trio has already been dubbed the "Three Amigos."

Sandoval's deal -- a five-year pact for $95 million with a $17 million club option for a sixth year (or a $5 million buyout), a major league source told ESPNBoston.com -- was finalized Tuesday morning.

Pablo Sandoval's career postseason batting average of .344 is the best in baseball history among players with at least 150 plate appearances. And he has a .426 batting average in 50 career World Series plate appearances as he helped the Giants win three titles.

Player BA Years

Pablo Sandoval .344 2010-14

Steve Garvey .338 1974-84

George Brett .337 1976-85

Carlos Beltran .333 2004-13

-- ESPN Stats & Information

The Red Sox announced Ramirez's four-year deal later Tuesday.

"David, he's like my big brother," Ramirez said. "He's texting me pretty much every day and telling me what I've got to do, what I've got to change. I think he's part of my success in the big leagues ... I can't wait to be on the same team with him. It's going to be great."

Sandoval helped the Giants win three championships, earning the World Series MVP in 2012 and the nickname "Kung Fu Panda" that helped cement him as a fan favorite.

"I want a new challenge. I need a new challenge," he said Tuesday during a Fenway Park news conference. "I know that I had a great career in San Francisco. But I'm going to have a new one here."

Sandoval helps fill a hole in the Red Sox's lineup for a third baseman and a left-handed bat. Ramirez, who played shortstop and a little third base with the Marlins and Los Angeles Dodgers, will be the team's left fielder.

"You're always trying to get a sense of where they might fit in," Red Sox manager John Farrell said when asked about potential lineups. "We're not even at Thanksgiving yet. The potential for some other additions might exist."

For now, the Red Sox are overloaded with outfielders and short on pitchers, having acquired Allen Craig and Yoenis Cespedes at the July trade deadline while shipping off four-fifths of the rotation.

"We've got a ways to go in the offseason," Farrell said.

Sandoval's deal includes a team vesting option for 2020. The 28-year-old Venezuelan, who is listed at 5-foot-11 and 248 pounds, was seen as a potential replacement for Ortiz at designated hitter when he retires.

But Sandoval said he will manage his weight to remain in the field.

The Red Sox hope Pablo Sandoval will give them a significant upgrade at third base, a position at which they struggled mightily in 2013.

"I'm going to be taking care of those things to play third base," he said.

Sandoval said Ortiz gave him advice when he was in the minor leagues that he has carried with him. Having a chance to play with Ortiz, who was the World Series MVP in 2013, was a factor that attracted him to Boston.

"To be Papi's teammate -- 162 games, all that with him -- for me, it's going to be a very exciting time," said Sandoval, who had dinner with Ramirez on Monday night.

Sandoval is a career .294 hitter who had 16 homers and 73 RBIs in the regular season this year and then hit .366 in the postseason while helping the Giants win their third World Series in five years.

Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington said Sandoval was "a primary target" in the offseason.

"He really embodies a lot of what we care about," Cherington said. "He's been a big winner. He's been a performer when it counts the most. He's respected as a teammate, loves to play. We think he fits what we're all about here. We're excited to have him."

Sandoval also said he was looking forward to playing at Fenway Park, something Cherington feels his bat is suited for.

"His approach, we believe, fits the ballpark well," Cherington said. "Third base had been a position we've been trying to figure out now for a couple of years now. ... This was an opportunity to add a really good player, a great person and a great fit for our team at a position of need."

Last season, Red Sox third basemen ranked 29th in baseball in OPS, with their .580 mark 121 percentage points below the league average of .701.

"He's unique -- a line-drive hitter who has power [and] doesn't strike out," Cherington said. "This is not someone who has to come to Fenway and change anything. He just has to come and be himself and be the best that he knows how to be. If he does that, that's going to help our lineup, that's going to help us win games."

In total, the Red Sox are investing at least $183 million in Sandoval and Ramirez.

Red Sox principal owner John W. Henry was not among those fretting about the risk at stake, with so much guaranteed money on the line.

"I think the risk of doing nothing was much larger,'' said Henry, who attended both ends of the matinee-evening news conferences the Red Sox held to introduce their newest additions. "The risk is avoiding free agency. You can't put together a winning ballclub just through the minor league system. To me that would be really risky.''

Henry was asked about the worst-to-first-worst odyssey the club has been on in the last three seasons.

New Red Sox left fielder Hanley Ramirez called himself "a new player, a new person."

"If we can win the World Series every other year and finish last every other year, I'd take that,'' Henry said. "It has been a roller coaster, I can't deny that, but when you have a bad year, like you did this year, just like in 2012, you're determined to rebuild quickly, and I think Ben has taken tremendous steps to do that.''

Ramirez's deal is worth $88 million and includes a fifth-year vesting option for an additional $22 million, according to a source.

Ramirez will be paid a $3 million signing bonus, and $19 million in the first season of the deal and $22 million in each successive year.

"There's just not that many opportunities in this game to bring in a player of Hanley's ability overall, particularly on the offensive side," Cherington said. "He's a very good base runner also. When those opportunities come up you have to avoid being too stubborn about what the rest of the picture looks like."

Ramirez came up in the Red Sox's system before he was traded to the Florida Marlins in the deal that brought Josh Beckett and future World Series MVP Mike Lowell to Boston. The 30-year-old batted .300 with 13 homers and 71 RBIs for Los Angeles this year.

"It's been a while," Ramirez said. "I remember '05 when I got traded I was really upset. Like he said, it worked out for both of us -- you guys won a couple of world championships. I haven't won any but that's what I'm here for. I'm a new player, I'm a new person."

To clear roster spots for Sandoval and Ramirez, the Red Sox designated first baseman-catcher Ryan Lavarnway and infielder Juan Francisco for assignment.

"So now we're in a position where we feel very good about the depth of our lineup, the mix of offensive players that we believe we'll be in a position to address the rest of the team, particularly the pitching staff, the rest of the offseason," Cherington said.

ESPNBoston.com's Gordon Edes and Kyle Brasseur and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

Reading this makes me appreciate Dave Dombrowski more.

 

I remember this specific offseason. Cherrington also screwed up with the starting staff--he went into the season with a weak starting staff. I remember being troubled by that more than the Sandoval and Hanley signings.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Red Sox gave Hanley every opportunity to produce and earn that option. He failed to hit and his hot April was mostly a mirage (inflated BABIP). Pedroia was returning, they had to make a move, and Hanley is about as useless as a player can be. And so the Red Sox dumped their weakest position player to make room for Pedroia. Made sense.