Swihart requests a trade

[OH FOY]

Who was injured at Catcher that year by the way, in 2015? Hannigan? Vazquez was the back-up and got hurt, and then they used Swihart. Got it. Vazquez was unproven just as much as Swihart, at that time. Edited May 17, 2018 by OH FOY!

[harmony]

At the end of this season Blake Swihart will be eligible for the first of four trips through arbitration.

 

I'm not sure how that affects his trade value.

[Sox75]

There are some things I just plain don't understand. I honestly don't have a man-crush on Swihart - I have no vested interest in whether he plays or doesn't play - but I do think the FO is overlooking something or else there's something going on with Swihart that we're not seeing. How does a player go from being the #1 catcher (ahead of Leon) when Vaz needed TJ surgery to being expendable now?

 

IIRC Swi's biggest problem was in blocking balls in the dirt and his biggest asset was with his bat. Has he forgotten how to hit? Isn't it worthwhile to work with a catcher who can hit (for a catcher) to help him in blocking balls in the dirt?

 

There are some things I just plain don't understand, I guess.

 

 

If memory serves me, back in 2015 I recall pitchers almost openly expressing frustration with Swi. I recall one incident, I'm almost certain it was Buch, who kept shaking off Swi. Buch actually eventually got so pissed that he was showing OPEN frustration on the mound, mid game. I also recall reading something about the guys thinking Swi had an over-inflated vision of his 'athletic ability,' where they (some) did not see this athletic ability translating to the baseball field.

 

In the midst of this, I recall watching a NESN special where they followed Swi for a day at the clubhouse. He was really showing off his athletic workout. As they were following him around, then miced up in the dugout, guys actually seemed quite irritated with him. I recall discussing it with my wife.

 

idk.... I get the distinct impression that it has to be the pitchers flat out saying, "I don't want this guy catching me! Give me Vaz or Sandy, but I'm not pitching to Swi."

[Bellhorn04]

If memory serves me, back in 2015 I recall pitchers almost openly expressing frustration with Swi. I recall one incident, I'm almost certain it was Buch, who kept shaking off Swi. Buch actually eventually got so pissed that he was showing OPEN frustration on the mound, mid game. I also recall reading something about the guys thinking Swi had an over-inflated vision of his 'athletic ability,' where they (some) did not see this athletic ability translating to the baseball field.

 

In the midst of this, I recall watching a NESN special where they followed Swi for a day at the clubhouse. He was really showing off his athletic workout. As they were following him around, then miced up in the dugout, guys actually seemed quite irritated with him. I recall discussing it with my wife.

 

idk.... I get the distinct impression that it has to be the pitchers flat out saying, "I don't want this guy catching me! Give me Vaz or Sandy, but I'm not pitching to Swi."

 

And that's the stuff fans don't really know much about.

[Slasher9]

He was our starting catcher due to injuries.

 

I get that. but he remained the starting catcher after sandy was brought in. so he was the starter.

[illinoisredsox]

Who was injured at Catcher that year by the way, in 2015? Hannigan? Vazquez was the back-up and got hurt, and then they used Swihart. Got it. Vazquez was unproven just as much as Swihart, at that time.

 

Vazquez was supposed to be the main guy with Hanigan as the #2 for 2015. Swihart was scheduled to be in Pawtucket. Vazquez blew out his elbow in Spring Training (requiring TJS) and was gone for the year, making Hanigan the starter. The Sox wanted Swihart to develop at Pawtucket, so they got Leon from the Nats to be the back-up. In early May, Hanigan broke his hand. Swihart was then called up and did most of the catching until July. At that point, Hanigan came back and Blake went on the DL with an ankle injury. When Swihart returned a couple weeks later, Leon was DFA'd, ending up in Pawtucket. Hanigan and Swihart then split the duties the rest of the season (Leon was brought back as a September call-up).

[Spudboy]

He was a starting C all last year in Pawtucket. The results were fairly poor. I think the Sox saw the writing on the wall that his development at C was just not working out and they wanted to move on.

 

He played the entire 2017 season hurt.

 

It was not until winter ball that he was able to squat and run well without restriction. He was raking until he was disabled by a parasite and was sent home where he lost 20 pounds battling the parasite.

 

To call his efforts poor without mentioning this information is not being accurate or fair.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Spudboy

[moonslav59]

You're being too kind. He had a miserable OPS of 538 last year in AAA. The only reason he's on the team is because he is out of options. He's not deserving of a MLB roster spot right now.

 

I already showed how badly he's done since 2015 on another post.

 

I was just showing why he was chosen over Hanigan & Leon in 2015 and to start 2016.

 

Here's what I wrote on the page before this one...

 

Swihart has been injured for some of the last few years, but here are his minor league numbers since being called up to Pawtucket in 2014:

 

.659 (71 PAs) Paw 2014

.714 (80 PAs) Paw 2015

.655 (122 PAs) Paw 2016

.539 (212 PAs) Paw 2017

.575 (38 PAs) Gulf (2017)

 

.689 (422 PAs) MLB 2015-2018

 

Nothing here screams for giving him a shot based on his offense.

[moonslav59]

I updated that already. But really they have not wanted him behind the plate through 2 managers now...

 

I agree and support management on this call.

 

I do not want Swihart catching. I've felt that way for years and advocated moving him to another position(s) long before they did.

[moonslav59]

2011 he was Drafted, by 2014 he was in Triple AAA putting up good numbers Offensively and Defensively.

 

By "defensively", I guess you mean CS%.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=swihar000bla

The plan was him to be #1 and Vaz the Back-up.

 

I do not think that was ever the plan. Vaz got hurt, and that is how Swihart jumped to the 1 slot.... briefly.

[moonslav59]

I get that. but he remained the starting catcher after sandy was brought in. so he was the starter.

 

Becasue Vaz was hurt or rehabbing.

[mvp 78]

He's somewhat stuck in no-man's land right now, somewhat like Machado but for different reasons. IMO the Sox would like nothing better than to send him down to Pawtucket to try to salvage his career but they can't because of the options thing.

 

Of course the reason players are limited to three option years is to prevent the FO from storing quality players in AAA until they're needed but this is an example of how the options clause works against some players.

 

He's not like Machado in any manner.

[S5Dewey]

He's not like Machado in any manner.

 

Yes he is.

[mvp 78]

Yes he is.

 

Machado is one of the best players in the game whose contract runs out at the end of the year.

 

Swihart is the 25th man on a roster only because he's out of option years.

 

Not the same at all.

[S5Dewey]

Machado is one of the best players in the game whose contract runs out at the end of the year.

 

Swihart is the 25th man on a roster only because he's out of option years.

 

Not the same at all.

 

You're right. I had Castillo in mind. Both he and Swihart are in their own Catch-22 situations. My bad.

 

I'll blame it on getting confused by names that end in O.

[mvp 78]

Difference between Castillo and Swihart is that Castillo is being paid handsomely.

[Slasher9]

Becasue Vaz was hurt or rehabbing.

 

Lou Gehring replaced an injured starter too.....

[cp176]

If memory serves me, back in 2015 I recall pitchers almost openly expressing frustration with Swi. I recall one incident, I'm almost certain it was Buch, who kept shaking off Swi. Buch actually eventually got so pissed that he was showing OPEN frustration on the mound, mid game. I also recall reading something about the guys thinking Swi had an over-inflated vision of his 'athletic ability,' where they (some) did not see this athletic ability translating to the baseball field.

 

In the midst of this, I recall watching a NESN special where they followed Swi for a day at the clubhouse. He was really showing off his athletic workout. As they were following him around, then miced up in the dugout, guys actually seemed quite irritated with him. I recall discussing it with my wife.

 

idk.... I get the distinct impression that it has to be the pitchers flat out saying, "I don't want this guy catching me! Give me Vaz or Sandy, but I'm not pitching to Swi."

 

These are all things that this fan never heard anything about either!

[S5Dewey]

Difference between Castillo and Swihart is that Castillo is being paid handsomely.

 

That is true, and it's the reason he's stuck in purgatory. If he were making the ML minimum (or any semi-reasonable amount) he'd either be called up or traded by now.

[cp176]

If memory serves me, back in 2015 I recall pitchers almost openly expressing frustration with Swi. I recall one incident, I'm almost certain it was Buch, who kept shaking off Swi. Buch actually eventually got so pissed that he was showing OPEN frustration on the mound, mid game. I also recall reading something about the guys thinking Swi had an over-inflated vision of his 'athletic ability,' where they (some) did not see this athletic ability translating to the baseball field.

 

In the midst of this, I recall watching a NESN special where they followed Swi for a day at the clubhouse. He was really showing off his athletic workout. As they were following him around, then miced up in the dugout, guys actually seemed quite irritated with him. I recall discussing it with my wife.

idk.... I get the distinct impression that it has to be the pitchers flat out saying, "I don't want this guy catching me! Give me Vaz or Sandy, but I'm not pitching to Swi."

 

I don't remember hearing about any of this stuff.

[Spudboy]

I don't remember hearing about any of this stuff.

 

Me either.

[moonslav59]

Lou Gehring replaced an injured starter too.....

 

I get that, but my point is, I do not think Swihart was ever viewed as our number one catcher, except due to another catcher being injured or rehabbing.

[moonslav59]

That is true, and it's the reason he's stuck in purgatory. If he were making the ML minimum (or any semi-reasonable amount) he'd either be called up or traded by now.

 

Also, decent catchers are hard to find.

 

Swihart is still largely an unknown. Once Pedey comes back, it will be time to choose what to do, assuming we don't put Nunez, JBJ or someone else on the DL (phantom or otherwise).

[notin]

Swihart may have picked the right week to demand a trade.

 

Both Jason Castro and Matt Wieters went down this week and both are likely to be out for a long time, if not all season...

[Maxbialystock]

222 Edited May 17, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[mvp 78]

If they never moved him to LF in 2016, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. We'd have a much better idea on if he has any value as a long term solution at C. I'm still not sure moving him to a super sub role so early in his career was a good move. Sox should have treated him the way Biggio was developed. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=549&position=2B Spend a couple of years full time at C and if it doesn't work out, then move him elsewhere. Sox screwed the pooch there.

[Jasonbay44]

If they never moved him to LF in 2016, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. We'd have a much better idea on if he has any value as a long term solution at C. I'm still not sure moving him to a super sub role so early in his career was a good move. Sox should have treated him the way Biggio was developed. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=549&position=2B Spend a couple of years full time at C and if it doesn't work out, then move him elsewhere. Sox screwed the pooch there.

 

I agree, I was never really a fan of moving him off catcher at such a young age, now they've essentially killed his value, and he's stuck in a s***** situation.

[moonslav59]

If they never moved him to LF in 2016, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now. We'd have a much better idea on if he has any value as a long term solution at C. I'm still not sure moving him to a super sub role so early in his career was a good move. Sox should have treated him the way Biggio was developed. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=549&position=2B Spend a couple of years full time at C and if it doesn't work out, then move him elsewhere. Sox screwed the pooch there.

 

I feel the should have moved his position earlier.

 

The injury was unfortunate, but one never knows what might have happened had he stayed catching. He may have ended up having a career ending injury.

[moonslav59]

I agree, I was never really a fan of moving him off catcher at such a young age, now they've essentially killed his value, and he's stuck in a s***** situation.

 

They moved him, because...

 

A) He sucks as a catcher

 

We missed out on getting Carlos Beltran and needed a LF'er who might be able to hit.

[Kimmi]

2011 he was Drafted, by 2014 he was in Triple AAA putting up good numbers Offensively and Defensively.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=swihar000bla

The plan was him to be #1 and Vaz the Back-up.

The injury really set him back. With the bat, and behind the plate.

Read his Defensive Numbers all the way up to 2014, they are very good, and equals or is better than Vaz in throwing out Runners, in the Minors.

 

In 2014 he had 0 Passed Balls.

Sox after Theo left, screwed this up, and they will screw this up if he gets Traded. I would want out this organization too, if I was him.

 

IMO, the Sox really screwed up in 2016 when they panicked and sent him down to AAA after just 6 games. And then tried to convert him to a LFer.