A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[Bellhorn04]

That "deep slump" in May was limited to 19 games that saw Hanley Ramirez post a .163/.200/.300/.500 line.

 

A deep enough slump.

 

My real point was that his option would likely have vested. notin says it was unlikely because of his injury history.

 

But at the start of the season Hanley only needed to play about 112 average games to achieve it.

[moonslav59]

A deep enough slump.

 

My real point was that his option would likely have vested. notin says it was unlikely because of his injury history.

 

But at the start of the season Hanley only needed to play about 112 average games to achieve it.

 

I'm glad Cora convinced DD to pull the plug.

[OH FOY]

Hanley wasn't a Cora type of Player. He evaluated that, by giving him the chance. Wasn't in their plans this year or next. Cut him early so he could hook up with other team. That's the funny part, other teams didn't want him either....at Vet Minimum. What we see on TV and don't see behind closed doors, probably pain in the ass. Reputation that goes around quickly. Which is why he was never signed elsewhere.

Who would rather go to battle with Hanley or Pearce? I don't care about talent, love the attitude of Pearce. Attitude that's infectious, in a good way.

Edited October 20, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

Hanley wasn't a bad guy. It was just a bad contract, especially with that damn option.

[OH FOY]

Hanley wasn't a bad guy. It was just a bad contract, especially with that damn option.

 

Probably not a bad guy, contract no problem either Sox got the money. Paying Sandoval, paying Castillo, think they owed Craig a little money still. He wasn't Cora's type of player. Pearce is.

Still like to know, teams looking at HRS now more then ever, why he wasn't picked up, with a cheap contract.

Edited October 20, 2018 by OH FOY!

[notin]

A deep enough slump.

 

My real point was that his option would likely have vested. notin says it was unlikely because of his injury history.

 

But at the start of the season Hanley only needed to play about 112 average games to achieve it.

 

No. My point was the option was never going to be allowed to vest unless Hanley unless Hanley was having a monster year. I said so repeatedly on this board all off-season.

 

That he got released just proved it. I really don’t think or hope the decision to release Hanley was as spontaneous as we were all lead to believe. At some point in the meeting, you know someone said “and it takes care of that option we’ve been talking about.”

 

Or maybe it happened the other way. Cora suggested “I know. Let’s cut the starting first baseman so we can keep the third string catcher.” And DD replied “Sure. Why the f*** not?”

[notin]

Probably not a bad guy, contract no problem either Sox got the money. Paying Sandoval, paying Castillo, think they owed Craig a little money still. He wasn't Cora's type of player. Pearce is.

Still like to know, teams looking at HRS now more then ever, why he wasn't picked up, with a cheap contract.

 

Maybe he decided he’d had enough and wanted to hang with his 3 kids. It’s not like he lost any salary this year...

[oldtimer]

Probably not a bad guy, contract no problem either Sox got the money. Paying Sandoval, paying Castillo, think they owed Craig a little money still. He wasn't Cora's type of player. Pearce is.

Still like to know, teams looking at HRS now more then ever, why he wasn't picked up, with a cheap contract.

 

It would be pure speculation by any of us to ascribe a reason or reasons to his situation and unfair to do so. Best to stick to the facts . He wasn't producing, he wasn't picked up by another team. and clearly we didn't want his 2019 salary to limit what we can do going forward. Enough said.

[moonslav59]

Sox 2018 Playoff OPS Leaders:

1.145 Holt

1.101 Moreland

.946 Martinez

.909 Devers

.853 Bradley

.810 Pearce

.730 Bogaerts

.670 Vazquez

.655 Kinsler

.625 Benintendi

.578 Betts

.528 Nunez

.000 Leon & Swihart

 

Pitching IP/ERA

14.1 Eovaldi 1.88

12.1 Price 5.11

10.2 Porcello 4.22

10.1 Sale 3.48

7.0 Brasier 0.00

6.1 Kimbrel 7.11

6.1 Barnes 1.42

5.1 Kelly 1.69

3.2 Hembree 0.00

3.2 Rodriguez 7.36

1.0 Workman 45.0

[moonslav59]

Sox 2018 Playoff OPS Leaders:

1.145 Holt

1.101 Moreland

.946 Martinez

.909 Devers

.853 Bradley

.810 Pearce

.730 Bogaerts

.670 Vazquez

.655 Kinsler

.625 Benintendi

.578 Betts

.528 Nunez

.000 Leon & Swihart

 

Pitching IP/ERA

14.1 Eovaldi 1.88

12.1 Price 5.11

10.2 Porcello 4.22

10.1 Sale 3.48

7.0 Brasier 0.00

6.1 Kimbrel 7.11

6.1 Barnes 1.42

5.1 Kelly 1.69

3.2 Hembree 0.00

3.2 Rodriguez 7.36

1.0 Workman 45.0

 

Brasier, Barnes, Kelly & Hembree with 22.1 IP and 2 ER.

 

0.81 ERA

[cp176]

It would be pure speculation by any of us to ascribe a reason or reasons to his situation and unfair to do so. Best to stick to the facts . He wasn't producing, he wasn't picked up by another team. and clearly we didn't want his 2019 salary to limit what we can do going forward. Enough said.

 

It would be good if all people would stick to the facts at all times but it seems to me that more often then not people want you to stick to the facts if they disagree with your opinion. Opinions are not always determined my facts. Often there are just not enough facts to gather to support either side. If I had to take a position on this one, I would certainly side with OH FOY. Definite facts don't support either side. Most of what is said here cannot be supported by facts. I say that well knowing that our quantifiers would disagree.

[cp176]

Probably not a bad guy, contract no problem either Sox got the money. Paying Sandoval, paying Castillo, think they owed Craig a little money still. He wasn't Cora's type of player. Pearce is.

Still like to know, teams looking at HRS now more then ever, why he wasn't picked up, with a cheap contract.

 

 

Agree

[Bellhorn04]

No. My point was the option was never going to be allowed to vest unless Hanley unless Hanley was having a monster year. I said so repeatedly on this board all off-season.

 

You said "there is only a savings if oft-injured Hanley’s option vests, which was unlikely". It seemed like the 'oft-injured' part had something to do with the option being unlikely to vest.

[OH FOY]

Maybe he decided he’d had enough and wanted to hang with his 3 kids. It’s not like he lost any salary this year...

 

Maybe, I'll be waiting for his announcement to retire soon. Or he wanted to take the year off, good thing the Sox cut him then. Might have done it on the field.

[Bellhorn04]

That he got released just proved it. I really don’t think or hope the decision to release Hanley was as spontaneous as we were all lead to believe. At some point in the meeting, you know someone said “and it takes care of that option we’ve been talking about.”

 

Or maybe it happened the other way. Cora suggested “I know. Let’s cut the starting first baseman so we can keep the third string catcher.” And DD replied “Sure. Why the f*** not?”

 

There's no way on earth it was a spontaneous decision or that the option wasn't a big factor in the decision. Of course it was. It was a $22 million option for a player who ultimately delivered a cumulative fWAR of 0.9 for the guaranteed $88 million part of the contract. A player who pulled off the feat of registering 3 negative fWARs out of his 4 years with the team.

 

Yes, I'd say the potential vesting of that option was a wee bit of a concern in the big picture!

[notin]

You said "there is only a savings if oft-injured Hanley’s option vests, which was unlikely". It seemed like the 'oft-injured' part had something to do with the option being unlikely to vest.

 

I strongly suspected that, unless he was having an MVP year, the chances of Hanley's option vesting were nil. Last March, I did think there was a strong hcance injury played a part, and Hanley would never be physically able to make it an issue. But even if he was healthy, he had no chance. WE all knew it.

 

I didn't expect him to get released, and especially not to accommodate Swihart. But that was proof positive that his option was never gong to vest one way or another,

 

Unless you believe the spontaneous version - the one where out of nowhere they decide to cut the starting 1B so they can keep the third string catcher. In that version, the Sox believe Swihart was important. He has 200 PA, s he clearly wasn't all that important.

 

In my version, they would have cut Hanley to accommodate anyone. And really, the player activated to cut him was Pedroia, who had 13 PAs this year before disappearing back on the DL forever. How ready was Pedroia really?

[Bellhorn04]

I strongly suspected that, unless he was having an MVP year, the chances of Hanley's option vesting were nil. Last March, I did think there was a strong hcance injury played a part, and Hanley would never be physically able to make it an issue. But even if he was healthy, he had no chance. WE all knew it.

 

I didn't expect him to get released, and especially not to accommodate Swihart. But that was proof positive that his option was never gong to vest one way or another,

 

Well, I think you're right that the only way the option was going to vest was if his April numbers continued. I think there was definitely a Plan A and a Plan B. When he dive-bombed in May Plan B came into effect rather rapidly.

[Bellhorn04]

Considering the Red Sox already overstuffed payroll situation and being subject to a 30% tax in 2019, you could attribute another $6.6 million in tax to Hanley's effective cost for 2019, bringing it to $28.6 million.

[Kimmi]

Hanley wasn't a bad guy. It was just a bad contract, especially with that damn option.

 

I know I stand alone, but I was sad to see Hanley go.

[Kimmi]

Probably not a bad guy, contract no problem either Sox got the money. Paying Sandoval, paying Castillo, think they owed Craig a little money still. He wasn't Cora's type of player. Pearce is.

Still like to know, teams looking at HRS now more then ever, why he wasn't picked up, with a cheap contract.

 

My understanding is that it was Hanley's choice not to play with another team. He wanted to enjoy some time with his family.

[Bellhorn04]

I know I stand alone, but I was sad to see Hanley go.

 

I was a little sad on a personal note, he was a very likable guy. I was also a little concerned it might backfire. But in the big picture I think they handled it about as well as they could. That option was a millstone around everyone's neck-including Hanley's, as it turned out.

[Kimmi]

Maybe, I'll be waiting for his announcement to retire soon. Or he wanted to take the year off, good thing the Sox cut him then. Might have done it on the field.

 

Hanley did everything the Sox asked him to do. To speculate that he might have quit on the field is unfair, IMO.

 

Personally, I think Hanley was very much hurt by the decision to cut him, and I can't say that I blame him. After that, taking some time off to just be with your family makes a lot of sense to me.

[Kimmi]

I was a little sad on a personal note, he was a very likable guy. I was also a little concerned it might backfire. But in the big picture I think they handled it about as well as they could. That option was a millstone around everyone's neck-including Hanley's, as it turned out.

 

I don't think they handled it well. Regardless, it worked out well for the team.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think they handled it well. Regardless, it worked out well for the team.

 

Maybe they could have handled it better. But I don't think there was any particularly good way to do it. They were in a position where it would have been dumb to tell the truth that it was because of the option.

[cp176]

Maybe they could have handled it better. But I don't think there was any particularly good way to do it. They were in a position where it would have been dumb to tell the truth that it was because of the option.

 

The option of course played a role but we really don't know what the truth of the entire situation was thus the speculation. Maybe I'm alone in my thinking as well but I believe that there was more to this story. I think that the inevitability that he was going to be sitting on the bench caused concern for Cora in more ways than one. Because I think that Cora is a very good manager with an oh so bright future, I'm giving him some credit with respect to the decision to release Hanley which obviously turned out pretty well for us. No drama. Most coaches tend to like no drama.

[OH FOY]

Happened to me a ton in my life, guys in work jerks, out of work nice guys. Sox handled it perfect, New Manager, he wanted to see what the situation is with Hanley, saw it wasn't a fit, present and future. Gave him a chance to hook up with other team, so he could continue his career, maybe get paid decent too.

One way or another did not get back on the field again this year. Might come back, but wont get big bucks again.

All players go through slumps, I'm betting Cora didn't like what Hanley gave in hustle or attitude.

Edited October 21, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Nick]

4th World Series title since 2004? Let's do this. Get this done and go for #5 in 2019.

[sk7326]

Hanley did everything the Sox asked him to do. To speculate that he might have quit on the field is unfair, IMO.

 

Personally, I think Hanley was very much hurt by the decision to cut him, and I can't say that I blame him. After that, taking some time off to just be with your family makes a lot of sense to me.

 

The checks were still clearing. I'd take a vacation too.

[harmony]

I strongly suspected that, unless he was having an MVP year, the chances of Hanley's option vesting were nil. Last March, I did think there was a strong hcance injury played a part, and Hanley would never be physically able to make it an issue. But even if he was healthy, he had no chance. WE all knew it.

 

I didn't expect him to get released, and especially not to accommodate Swihart. But that was proof positive that his option was never gong to vest one way or another.

For what it's worth, when Hanley Ramirez was released Blake Swihart had played 19 games, posting a .139/.244/.167/.411 line:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=swihabl01&t=b&year=2018

[moonslav59]

It does show it was more about the money than a desire to play a game he loves.