A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[mvp 78]

He wouldn't be the guy to move ...

 

Mookie: 19.7 UZR/150

 

JBJ: 8.8 UZR/150

[sk7326]

Mookie: 19.7 UZR/150

 

JBJ: 8.8 UZR/150

 

(nods)

[Maxbialystock]

It could be that he's just plain tired. It's been a long season since February with a lot of baseball being played and it's very possible that he hasn't learned how to pace himself . IMO it's very possible that these few days off will give him a chance to rest and rejuvinate himself. We'll see.

 

You could be right. He has the most at bats and second most games on the team (after JDM). His monthly OPS' started high, faded a tad in june, came back in July (.897) and then fell hard in August (.771) and September (.667). He hit 6 dingers in May and 6 in June and 4 total in April, July, August, and September. I think beyond question he wears down and strongly disagree with oldtimer's claim that Beni needs to swing for the fences, pull the ball more, etc. He has a very good swing and should keep it that way. Given how effective these shifts are, I like it when Beni hits to the opposite field.

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie: 19.7 UZR/150

 

JBJ: 8.8 UZR/150

 

Then we would just have to replace Mookie in right...

[S5Dewey]

Then we would just have to replace Mookie in right...

 

...and if there's something we learned from past years the best Sox outfields need to have two OF'ers with the skills to play CF, one in CF and one in RF.

[mvp 78]

then we would just have to replace mookie in right...

 

jbj: Uzr/150 18.2

[Slasher9]

Then we would just have to replace Mookie in right...

 

which for 81 games a season is more important (just as important?) than CF.

[moonslav59]

which for 81 games a season is more important (just as important?) than CF.

 

I'd keep Betts in RF for all 81 home games, if possible, but I can see using JD in RF at Yankee Stadium with Betts in CF.

[vegasbob]

Sometimes players just go through tough stretches. Maybe he failed to adjust to something pitchers found out about him.

 

Maybe, he just stopped pulling balls he should have pulled.

 

Maybe he has an injury that has been kept quiet.

 

Maybe, maybe...

 

Maybe he busts out of the slump this October.

 

One thing that I noticed was that the big majority of Beni's swing and misses on good pitches to hit came when his bat dipped under the ball at the point of contact (also a pop-up cause). I believe he dips his left shoulder and loops his bat below the pitch. Also it causes many of his little dribblers rolling towards the pitcher or first base. Possibly trying to get a better angle of attack to hit flyballs/HR's but didn't work. He is so much better slashing to LF.

[notin]

...and if there's something we learned from past years the best Sox outfields need to have two OF'ers with the skills to play CF, one in CF and one in RF.

 

Think Evans could play a capable CF? He played out there, but for a very limited amount...

[moonslav59]

Think Evans could play a capable CF? He played out there, but for a very limited amount...

 

Yes, he could, but there was little reason to do it.

 

In Fenway, RF is a very important defensive position. It almost is as important as catcher and SS.

[notin]

Yes, he could, but there was little reason to do it.

 

In Fenway, RF is a very important defensive position. It almost is as important as catcher and SS.

 

Sure, there were two good reasons to move Evans to CF.

 

1. Tony

2. Armas

[moonslav59]

Sure, there were two good reasons to move Evans to CF.

 

1. Tony

2. Armas

 

Who played RF when Dewey played CF?

 

Bernie Carbo?

[notin]

Who played RF when Dewey played CF?

 

Bernie Carbo?

 

He did it very infrequently (32 games, 17 starts in his career). It looks like the 8 games he played CF in 1976 was the most, and Bobby Darwin played RF in most of those...

[oldtimer]

You could be right. He has the most at bats and second most games on the team (after JDM). His monthly OPS' started high, faded a tad in june, came back in July (.897) and then fell hard in August (.771) and September (.667). He hit 6 dingers in May and 6 in June and 4 total in April, July, August, and September. I think beyond question he wears down and strongly disagree with oldtimer's claim that Beni needs to swing for the fences, pull the ball more, etc. He has a very good swing and should keep it that way. Given how effective these shifts are, I like it when Beni hits to the opposite field.

 

Did I say he needs to swing for the fences? No I didn't. It would be nice to see him hit the ball harder to right field, at least some of the time. Did he wear down? He is 24 years old and if he did, how come Betts and Bogaerts did not? His swing looks pretty but he could and probably will become a much better hitter in his upcoming years.

[S5Dewey]

Think Evans could play a capable CF? He played out there, but for a very limited amount...

 

Yes, but I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the question. Every year Armas was with the Sox he had a negative dWAR in CF. (I do hate to use WAR to make a point, but when in Rome....). In order for Evans' teams to be in the running for the best outfield of the Sox someone better than Tony Armas would have to have been in CF. Which is what I said.

[notin]

Yes, but I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the question. Every year Armas was with the Sox he had a negative dWAR in CF. (I do hate to use WAR to make a point, but when in Rome....). In order for Evans' teams to be in the running for the best outfield of the Sox someone better than Tony Armas would have to have been in CF. Which is what I said.

 

I agree Armas was a weak CF, which was probably why Oakland never used him there. But just because Dewey was a better option doesn't mean Evans would have been a good CF.

 

 

And really, the Rice-Lynn-Evans outfield (Lynn, not Armas) has to be among the best outfields in recent Sox history. In fact, other than Lewis-Speaker-Hooper and this current trio, what other Sox outfields are in the running?

Edited October 3, 2018 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

Tony Armas - a name made up of 4 body parts.

[notin]

Tony Armas - a name made up of 4 body parts.

 

Why no "Body Parts" list on the Fun with Baseball Names thread?

[moonslav59]

I agree Armas was a weak CF, which was probably why Oakland never used him there. But just because Dewey was a better option doesn't mean Evans would have been a good CF.

 

 

And really, the Rice-Lynn-Evans outfield (Lynn, not Armas) has to be among the best outfields in recent Sox history. In fact, other than Lewis-Speaker-Hooper and this current trio, what other Sox outfields are in the running?

 

The one we have now might end up 3rd on the list.

[S5Dewey]

I agree Armas was a weak CF, which was probably why Oakland never used him there. But just because Dewey was a better option doesn't mean Evans would have been a good CF.

 

 

Agreed. And it doesn't mean he would have been a bad one.

 

Is your point really that because over 2100 games he only started 17 of them in CF that he's a bad CF'er?

 

My original point was that the best OF in Fenway has two players who are capable of playing CF. I will never understand how/why you tried to turn this into a debate about whether an Evans clone in CF would/wouldn't have made the outfield better.

 

But that's what you do.

[notin]

Agreed. And it doesn't mean he would have been a bad one.

 

Is your point really that because over 2100 games he only started 17 of them in CF that he's a bad CF'er?

 

My original point was that the best OF in Fenway has two players who are capable of playing CF. I will never understand how/why you tried to turn this into a debate about whether an Evans clone in CF would/wouldn't have made the outfield better.

 

But that's what you do.

 

Stop being so defensive.

 

Your point was the best Sox outfields have always had a RF capable of playing CF. Dwight Evans was a RF on what has to be considered one of, if not the best, outfields in this team's history, with Rice-Lynn-Evans. Hopefully you can agree Evans never established himself as a capable CF and his defensive abilities out there are at the very least, in question. Right? His defensive abilities in RF are without question - one of the best ever to play the position in MLB.

 

So beyond this season where Betts has shown himself to be play RF and CF well above average, I wonder what other Sox outfields you are referring to. I am not so sure I can think of any other great Sox outfields where the RF was a even a capable CF, unless you were referring to Ramirez-Damon-Nixon, which was a good OF, but certainly no Rice-Lynn-Evans.

 

Maybe Gomes/Nava-Ellsbury-Victorino? Certainly Victornio was an excellent CF before playing RF in Boston. But I would be very hesitant to rank taht among the best outfields on thjis team. Although they did win a ring, which shouldn''t be ignored. But I'm not really sure what outfields you were referring to...

[Bellhorn04]

Why no "Body Parts" list on the Fun with Baseball Names thread?

 

I will rectify that omission.

[oldtimer]

I think the comment by Betts sums up the best way to look at effort during the POs. His comment;

 

"Just think better urgency, and that will be our mindset from pitch one and treat each pitch like it's your last," Betts said. "I think it's very important to set the tone. It's something we haven't done the last couple of years and something we hope to do this year."

[vegasbob]

I think the comment by Betts sums up the best way to look at effort during the POs. His comment;

 

"Just think better urgency, and that will be our mindset from pitch one and treat each pitch like it's your last," Betts said. "I think it's very important to set the tone. It's something we haven't done the last couple of years and something we hope to do this year."

 

So the reason for the quick outs from the ALDS in '16 and '17 were Mookie Betts failure to understand the urgency of the situation, thinking it was a 9 game series, and Farrell's failure to advise the team to get up and play like there's no tomorrow or dance like no one is watching or laugh like no one is around. Glad to get Mookie reoriented and Cora will do a better job of kicking lazy asses if they don't wake up.

[S5Dewey]

Stop being so defensive.

 

Your point was the best Sox outfields have always had a RF capable of playing CF. Dwight Evans was a RF on what has to be considered one of, if not the best, outfields in this team's history, with Rice-Lynn-Evans. Hopefully you can agree Evans never established himself as a capable CF and his defensive abilities out there are at the very least, in question. Right? His defensive abilities in RF are without question - one of the best ever to play the position in MLB.

 

So beyond this season where Betts has shown himself to be play RF and CF well above average, I wonder what other Sox outfields you are referring to. I am not so sure I can think of any other great Sox outfields where the RF was a even a capable CF, unless you were referring to Ramirez-Damon-Nixon, which was a good OF, but certainly no Rice-Lynn-Evans.

 

Maybe Gomes/Nava-Ellsbury-Victorino? Certainly Victornio was an excellent CF before playing RF in Boston. But I would be very hesitant to rank taht among the best outfields on thjis team. Although they did win a ring, which shouldn''t be ignored. But I'm not really sure what outfields you were referring to...

 

I wasn't referring to any outfields in particular. What I said and what I'll stand by is that "if there's something we learned from past years the best Sox outfields need to have two OF'ers with the skills to play CF, one in CF and one in RF".

 

I have no idea how Dwight Evans got dragged into it.

[BillyWilliams]

I wasn't referring to any outfields in particular. What I said and what I'll stand by is that "if there's something we learned from past years the best Sox outfields need to have two OF'ers with the skills to play CF, one in CF and one in RF".

 

I have no idea how Dwight Evans got dragged into it.

 

I would say the rice/lynn/evans was the best sox outfield I can remember.

[moonslav59]

I would say the rice/lynn/evans was the best sox outfield I can remember.

 

When they traded Lynn, my heart sunk to a very low point. The Fisk fiasco and Burleson trade was nearly enough to turn away the staunchest of Sox fans, but I stuck with 'em.

[notin]

I wasn't referring to any outfields in particular. What I said and what I'll stand by is that "if there's something we learned from past years the best Sox outfields need to have two OF'ers with the skills to play CF, one in CF and one in RF".

 

I have no idea how Dwight Evans got dragged into it.

 

I brought Evans in because when I think of best Sox outfields, Rice-Lynn-Evans is the first thing that jumps to mind.

 

And I can see the advantages of having a CF in RF at Fenway. I just couldn't think of too many former CF's or players capable of playing CF who have played out there regularly. Betts and Victorino both did, but beyond that, I'm stumped.

 

Usually, when someone makes a statement like that, they have someone in mind. If it was just Betts, I can see that. He's a great example. If Victorino was additional support, OK. But since those two don't encompass a ton of years out in RF, I figured you had someone in mind i was missing or played before my time...

[Bellhorn04]

So the reason for the quick outs from the ALDS in '16 and '17 were Mookie Betts failure to understand the urgency of the situation, thinking it was a 9 game series, and Farrell's failure to advise the team to get up and play like there's no tomorrow or dance like no one is watching or laugh like no one is around. Glad to get Mookie reoriented and Cora will do a better job of kicking lazy asses if they don't wake up.

 

LOL. I think Mookie was referencing back to 'setting the tone' when he said they didn't do it the last couple of years. All in all, he probably didn't explain what he was trying to say very clearly. I'm guessing he's trying to say the team was lacking in focus or intensity or one of those qualities that are a little difficult to nail down.