A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[Bellhorn04]

Is it just me or do baseball players appear fragile as glass? That collision is called 2nd and 8 in the NFL and both players go back to the huddle' date=' in baseball they both leave the game.[/quote']

 

This topic has come up before, might even be worthy of a thread.

 

The game of football is all about violent physical collision. Players train and build muscle accordingly and are generally ready for it on the field.

 

In baseball plays like this one are usually more of a freakish nature where the player is totally unprepared, off balance, in an awkward position etc.

 

Another point is that while football players do get up and keep playing after ferocious collisions, their average careers are not long, and many ex-players sadly end up cripples and/or brain-damaged. The collisions have a severe accumulative effect.

 

As I say it sort of deserves its own thread because it is something that a lot of people find baffling.

[sk7326]

This topic has come up before, might even be worthy of a thread.

 

The game of football is all about violent physical collision. Players train and build muscle accordingly and are generally ready for it on the field.

 

In baseball plays like this one are usually more of a freakish nature where the player is totally unprepared, off balance, in an awkward position etc.

 

Another point is that while football players do get up and keep playing after ferocious collisions, their average careers are not long, and many ex-players sadly end up cripples and/or brain-damaged. The collisions have a severe accumulative effect.

 

As I say it sort of deserves its own thread because it is something that a lot of people find baffling.

 

And in baseball - games come every day ... if you can prevent small injuries from becoming big ones it helps.

[Kimmi]

Martinez might have helped some. You read about the managerial change (and why Dombrowski did it) and that might have helped.

 

But the simple answer - Betts is 25 years old, and young guys get better. Betts was 2nd in the MVP as recently as 2016. Heck, he had a downballot MVP caliber year LAST SEASON. (offensively he was still pretty good and had the best defensive season in the league by a solid margin) Really there is not that much magic to Betts, Bogaerts or Benintendi having such wonderful seasons. It's a part of growing up - and in Bogaerts case, being able to properly grip a baseball bat.

 

I love you.

 

That is all.

[a700hitter]

He's like the backups backup, with potential. And looks like we needed a third catcher. That is a role right there.

 

Don't catch me catching you blaming Swi for E-Rods ankle either.

That was his fault. He should have eaten that ball after the bobble. He killed ERod, no ifs, buts or what’s.

[a700hitter]

Martinez might have helped some. You read about the managerial change (and why Dombrowski did it) and that might have helped.

 

But the simple answer - Betts is 25 years old, and young guys get better. Betts was 2nd in the MVP as recently as 2016. Heck, he had a downballot MVP caliber year LAST SEASON. (offensively he was still pretty good and had the best defensive season in the league by a solid margin) Really there is not that much magic to Betts, Bogaerts or Benintendi having such wonderful seasons. It's a part of growing up - and in Bogaerts case, being able to properly grip a baseball bat.

”Martinez might have helped some”? So it is mere coincidence that Papi leaves and Betts performance falls off. Yes, I know about the wrist injury. A Papi like stud gets signed and Benny starts playing like an all star and that only helped some? I disagree.

[SoxHop]

That was his fault. He should have eaten that ball after the bobble. He killed ERod, no ifs, buts or what’s.

 

If you stopped at "he should have eaten the ball" I'd agree with you.

[Kimmi]

”Martinez might have helped some”? So it is mere coincidence that Papi leaves and Betts performance falls off. Yes, I know about the wrist injury. A Papi like stud gets signed and Benny starts playing like an all star and that only helped some? I disagree.

 

Cora's influence has more to do with the improvement of Betts and Beni than JD does.

[a700hitter]

Cora's influence has more to do with the improvement of Betts and Beni than JD does.

I thought the question in the thread was the reason for the improvement in the team this year over last year. That I believe is JD.

[mvp 78]

Cora's influence has more to do with the improvement of Betts and Beni than JD does.

 

If JD wasn't acting as the 2nd hitting coach on the team, I'd be inclined to believe that argument. The fact of the matter is that JD is helping these guys every day with their swings and game prep.

[Kimmi]

If JD wasn't acting as the 2nd hitting coach on the team, I'd be inclined to believe that argument. The fact of the matter is that JD is helping these guys every day with their swings and game prep.

 

Which I have acknowledged. I still believe that Cora has been the bigger influence.

[Spudboy]

Which I have acknowledged. I still believe that Cora has been the bigger influence.

 

How so?

[moonslav59]

Not that these tiny sample sizes mean much, but here are the run totals in games JD has not played:

 

7 (Apr 2)

7 (Apr 20)

1 (May 27)

0 (June 8)

4 (July 2)

 

19 runs in 5 games= 3.8 per game.

 

I'm convinced JD has made a significant impact on the hitters around him in the line-up. I'm not sure if it's more than all the other factors combined, like new coaches & managers and improved health by several hitters like Betts, Bogey $ Moreland, but I do think it mattered.

 

If you look at Betts, Bogey & Moreland last year, they all seemed to be doing very well before their injuries. Beni has taken off. One could argue he's a year older and wiser, but JD's influence seems to have made a major impact on his performance.

 

One could also look at Betts and Boegy when Papi was still here mashing. They had some down periods then as well, so it wasn't just 2017.

 

Is Betts' .812 and .803 OPS with Papi all that much better than the .803 in 2017 without Papi?

 

Bogey had worse years when Papi was here. He was at .660 in 2014 and not much better than 2017 (.746) in the two years prior (.776 and .802). Certainly, one could argue his injuries were enough to drop him from .776 and .802 to .746.

 

I've never been a big believer in a great hitter having a major impact on improving those around him, but I'm thinking it matters more than I previously believed it did.

 

 

[a700hitter]

How so?

Is there a fangraph for that?

[sk7326]

”Martinez might have helped some”? So it is mere coincidence that Papi leaves and Betts performance falls off. Yes, I know about the wrist injury. A Papi like stud gets signed and Benny starts playing like an all star and that only helped some? I disagree.

 

I'd correlate it more with Cora than Martinez. Papi left and Betts hurt his wrist and so he went from being amazing to above average/good. Benintendi became a guy who started getting pitched to - that a book came on him because he was no longer an August callup. I remember reading post mortems of Farrell's firing noting that perhaps the team (the kids in particular) needed a lighter touch which Cora could provide, and that seems to have come to pass to some degree.

 

Martinez has been awesome - but it is for his own contribution (his performance and allowing the Red Sox to play Bradley less).

[sk7326]

How so?

 

This is the hard part. A manager in baseball is like a manager in the sort of job normal folks have. He doesn't necessarily have a direct impact on the employees work - but there are good places to work, and crappy ones ... and certainly management has a lot to do with that. Cora encouraging aggressiveness and having a way to implement it where it has stuck helps. Also - if you believe the reporting - the Red Sox youngsters have good makeup, and if anything are too hard on themselves when the results slip. Maybe Cora is the sort of guy who has more of a Francona-sort of skill, crack a joke when a guy is in a slump - some of that "nothing a ball getting between two fielders can't fix" - sort of stuff.

[a700hitter]

I'd correlate it more with Cora than Martinez. Papi left and Betts hurt his wrist and so he went from being amazing to above average/good. Benintendi became a guy who started getting pitched to - that a book came on him because he was no longer an August callup. I remember reading post mortems of Farrell's firing noting that perhaps the team (the kids in particular) needed a lighter touch which Cora could provide, and that seems to have come to pass to some degree.

 

Martinez has been awesome - but it is for his own contribution (his performance and allowing the Red Sox to play Bradley less).

I think you haven’t been following very closely. The other players are actively seeking and getting JD’s mentorship and they are mimicking and copy his approach to preparation. This has been discussed in numerous outlets.

[a700hitter]

This is the hard part. A manager in baseball is like a manager in the sort of job normal folks have. He doesn't necessarily have a direct impact on the employees work - but there are good places to work, and crappy ones ... and certainly management has a lot to do with that. Cora encouraging aggressiveness and having a way to implement it where it has stuck helps. Also - if you believe the reporting - the Red Sox youngsters have good makeup, and if anything are too hard on themselves when the results slip. Maybe Cora is the sort of guy who has more of a Francona-sort of skill, crack a joke when a guy is in a slump - some of that "nothing a ball getting between two fielders can't fix" - sort of stuff.

Basically, it is just your opinion.

[Spudboy]

This is the hard part. A manager in baseball is like a manager in the sort of job normal folks have. He doesn't necessarily have a direct impact on the employees work - but there are good places to work, and crappy ones ... and certainly management has a lot to do with that. Cora encouraging aggressiveness and having a way to implement it where it has stuck helps. Also - if you believe the reporting - the Red Sox youngsters have good makeup, and if anything are too hard on themselves when the results slip. Maybe Cora is the sort of guy who has more of a Francona-sort of skill, crack a joke when a guy is in a slump - some of that "nothing a ball getting between two fielders can't fix" - sort of stuff.

 

All speculation.

 

No stats to prove this hypothesis.

[mvp 78]

All speculation.

 

No stats to prove this hypothesis.

 

But if stats were shown, you'd probably just poopoo them anyway.

[Spudboy]

But if stats were shown, you'd probably just poopoo them anyway.

 

Not if they were valid.

[Kimmi]

How so?

 

I get the impression that Cora has been able to get the players to buy into what he is selling. That's very important, IMO. He has convinced the hitters to take a more aggressive approach. He has convinced Bogaerts to start pulling the ball more rather than trying to slap the ball the other way like he was doing last year.

 

Also, it's been noted by many players that the feeling in the clubhouse is different this season. That's a direct reflection on Cora.

[Kimmi]

This is the hard part. A manager in baseball is like a manager in the sort of job normal folks have. He doesn't necessarily have a direct impact on the employees work - but there are good places to work, and crappy ones ... and certainly management has a lot to do with that. Cora encouraging aggressiveness and having a way to implement it where it has stuck helps. Also - if you believe the reporting - the Red Sox youngsters have good makeup, and if anything are too hard on themselves when the results slip. Maybe Cora is the sort of guy who has more of a Francona-sort of skill, crack a joke when a guy is in a slump - some of that "nothing a ball getting between two fielders can't fix" - sort of stuff.

 

You said that much better than I did.

[Kimmi]

But if stats were shown, you'd probably just poopoo them anyway.

 

Amen brother MVP.

[Kimmi]

Not if they were valid.

 

It seems that the only stats that you consider valid are the ones that agree with your opinion.

[moonslav59]

JD is doing worse than last year,

 

Stats prove Cora's influence is bad.

 

Cora sucks.

 

(Just kidding.)

[a700hitter]

It seems that the only stats that you consider valid are the ones that agree with your opinion.

Let's see the stats.

[Hitch]

But if stats were shown, you'd probably just poopoo them anyway.

 

What spud complain about stats in every thread, every day? Never!!

[a700hitter]

What spud complain about stats in every thread, every day? Never!!

There were no stats for the assertion. It was pure worthless opinion by Kimmi. That was Spud’s point.

[Hitch]

There were no stats for the assertion. It was pure worthless opinion by Kimmi. That was Spud’s point.

 

So unless you have a stat to back up your opinion, it is worthless?

 

A fantastically ironic post.

[a700hitter]

So unless you have a stat to back up your opinion, it is worthless?

 

A fantastically ironic post.

Not at all. I am just applying the standards of the statheads to the statheads whose behavior has been quite infantile in this instance. A poster points out out that an assertion is mere opinion and speculation. That seems fair enough to me. He is met with derision by 3 or 4 posters who tell him that he would discard the stats. Pretty childish. Don't ya think?