A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[a700hitter]

Well, one Cy Young winner.

I thought we were talking about drafting players. His record on trades is worse than his record on drafts.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I'm all for getting another pen arm. We could use a strong number 2. Getting one would turn Kelly, Barnes & Co. into a formidable set-up crew.

 

However, I think we have a pretty good pen right now without counting on Thornburg or Blasier for anything but gravy.

 

Although our pen might not be great after Kimbrel, I think we're pretty deep:

 

Kimbrel

 

Kelly

Barnes

 

Hembree

Workman

(These 5 are basically locks.)

 

3 from Wright, Pom, Johnson or Velazquez

Thornburg

Brasier

Poyner

Walden

Scott

 

These are 8 decent pitchers, of which we have to choose the best 2-3 to fill out the rest of the pen.

 

We don't "need" Thornburg or Brasier for a key role. It would be nice if Thornburg stepped into the 2 slot, but Kelly has done pretty well for 1.5 seasons, now.

 

 

 

Are you saying you are fine going into October with Barnes and Kelly in their current roles? You think they can get through 3 rounds (plus a possible wild card game) and win a ring with that situation? Not me, that will blow up on them at some point and could derail a real chance at a title run.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[moonslav59]

That wasn’t Ben? For the life of me, I don’t understand the Ben love. Of Mookie’s was his guy, that would have been quite the catch.

 

Certainly there are a few posters who seem to "love" Ben, but some, including myself, tend to defend him, because we feel like some posters only focus on the bad and either ignore the good or choose to only point out the bad.

 

Ben's impact on the far was positive. he left it better off than he got it.

 

He pulled off the Dodger dump trade that enabled the 2013 ring.

 

He traded for Uehara and was able to get us Porcello for Cespedes -salvaging something from the Lester mess.

 

He also acquired quite a few good players, but they did not outweigh the horrible signings of Pablo & HRam.

[notin]

Certainly there are a few posters who seem to "love" Ben, but some, including myself, tend to defend him, because we feel like some posters only focus on the bad and either ignore the good or choose to only point out the bad.

 

Ben's impact on the far was positive. he left it better off than he got it.

 

He pulled off the Dodger dump trade that enabled the 2013 ring.

 

He traded for Uehara and was able to get us Porcello for Cespedes -salvaging something from the Lester mess.

 

He also acquired quite a few good players, but they did not outweigh the horrible signings of Pablo & HRam.

 

A good summary.

 

And while Pablo and Hanley were bad cotnracts, even the best GMs make bad signings. Epstein certainly had his share of free agent clunkers in Boston, and even a few in Chicago. But that is more the nature of paying heavily for post-prime talent, which is the essence of free agency.

 

Sometimes I think people focus on the dud post-prime, overpriced, unproductive free agent that a GM acquires as a problem because he is a hindrance to acquiring another dud post-prime, overpriced, unproductive free agent. This is like getting upset with someone for taking arsenic because you really wanted them to take your cyanide...

[notin]

I thought we were talking about drafting players. His record on trades is worse than his record on drafts.

 

Well, acquiring pitching in general. Drafting is one way to get it. In fact, drafting is the slowest and least productive method, since many pitchers can get injured or simply not get much better through the minor leagues. The attrition rates are very high. That's why Baseball Prospectus gives preference to position players when ranking prospects.

 

But Ben also acquired Eduardo Rodriguez. So he got some pitching for the Sox...

[Bellhorn04]

A good summary.

 

And while Pablo and Hanley were bad cotnracts, even the best GMs make bad signings. Epstein certainly had his share of free agent clunkers in Boston, and even a few in Chicago. But that is more the nature of paying heavily for post-prime talent, which is the essence of free agency.

 

Sometimes I think people focus on the dud post-prime, overpriced, unproductive free agent that a GM acquires as a problem because he is a hindrance to acquiring another dud post-prime, overpriced, unproductive free agent. This is like getting upset with someone for taking arsenic because you really wanted them to take your cyanide...

 

I really think what Ben is judged most harshly on is simply the last-place finishes.

 

Theo had some bad moves but his overall results were basically unassailable.

[a700hitter]

Well, acquiring pitching in general. Drafting is one way to get it. In fact, drafting is the slowest and least productive method, since many pitchers can get injured or simply not get much better through the minor leagues. The attrition rates are very high. That's why Baseball Prospectus gives preference to position players when ranking prospects.

 

But Ben also acquired Eduardo Rodriguez. So he got some pitching for the Sox...

His overall record on building pitching at all levels of the organization was horrible.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I really think what Ben is judged most harshly on is simply the last-place finishes.

 

 

 

That sounds pretty fair to me.

[MADSTORK]

The Sox would need to go at best 20-47 the rest of the way to achieve MADSTORK's prediction of maxing out at 86 wins....[/quote

 

 

Very good offensive team which is why the win total is what it is..

 

Starting pitching wins Playoff Series. It’s a fact and the facts are undisputed!

 

Your not winning a ring with this rotation and especially the Pen with the three stooges, see Kelly.

 

A legit RH Starter and setup / closer will go a long way in determining what ring size to order..

 

Tax strapped, thanks John Tom Larry

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox would need to go at best 20-47 the rest of the way to achieve MADSTORK's prediction of maxing out at 86 wins....[/quote

 

 

Very good offensive team which is why the win total is what it is..

 

Starting pitching wins Playoff Series. It’s a fact and the facts are undisputed!

 

Your not winning a ring with this rotation and especially the Pen with the three stooges, see Kelly.

 

A legit RH Starter and setup / closer will go a long way in determining what ring size to order..

 

Tax strapped, thanks John Tom Larry

 

LOL right on cue.

 

Polly wanna cracker?

[Nick]

I've been impressed with Brazier.

 

I'd say try them all. We've seen enough of retreads.

 

Holt continues his historical trend. Hitting .237 in July prior to today's game. He's replaced Pedey as the GIDP machine. How can a slap hitter take third strike twice in a game and one with runner on 3rd base? There's just something not right with his head. I hate his childish antics. What have you done for me lately?

 

We need a real 2B for our stretch run.

 

And it goes to show you how unpredictable relievers are. I would think twice about giving Kelly long term contract. Kimbrel is a sure thing as they come, everyone else? Forget it About It.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Are you saying you are fine going into October with Barnes and Kelly in their current roles? You think they can get through 3 rounds (plus a possible wild card game) and win a ring with that situation? Not me' date=' that will blow up on them at some point and could derail a real chance at a title run.[/quote']

 

No. I'd like to get a fine #2 guy, but my point was we don't need Thornburg or Brasier to do well.

 

I think we can win without any major pen addition, but why not upgrade your weakest spot?

 

(It's our "weakest spot" but not really weak.)

 

[Larry Cook]

Talk radio speculated desperate Dave is trying to bring back Ziegler,

 

If nothing else, he proved he could pitch here previously and we need 8th inning help.

[moonslav59]

A good summary.

 

And while Pablo and Hanley were bad cotnracts, even the best GMs make bad signings. Epstein certainly had his share of free agent clunkers in Boston, and even a few in Chicago. But that is more the nature of paying heavily for post-prime talent, which is the essence of free agency.

 

Sometimes I think people focus on the dud post-prime, overpriced, unproductive free agent that a GM acquires as a problem because he is a hindrance to acquiring another dud post-prime, overpriced, unproductive free agent. This is like getting upset with someone for taking arsenic because you really wanted them to take your cyanide...

 

Yes, and had Ben not signed anyone that year, he'd have been roasted by everyone.

 

I was firmly against the Pablo signing and was okay with HRam, but I never expected both to do so poorly.

[moonslav59]

Well, acquiring pitching in general. Drafting is one way to get it. In fact, drafting is the slowest and least productive method, since many pitchers can get injured or simply not get much better through the minor leagues. The attrition rates are very high. That's why Baseball Prospectus gives preference to position players when ranking prospects.

 

But Ben also acquired Eduardo Rodriguez. So he got some pitching for the Sox...

 

And, several of his pitchers, good or bad, were dealt for some top talent.

[OH FOY]

Phillips got promoted to Pawtucket, probably play tonight. Yes he is in the lineup. Edited July 14, 2018 by OH FOY!

[oldtimer]

And, several of his pitchers, good or bad, were dealt for some top talent.

 

Yes, and now we need additional relief pitching. Hembree is irratic, Robbie Ross is not putting up ML numbers, Kelly has been bad of late, but I have opes for him. Velo is there, just needs to get it back together. I think we could use at least one reliever and possibly two, but we also need a second baseman as Pedroia doesn.t look like he will play again in 2018. After that, who know. We can scrape by at catcher and CF is not a big priority. We have a good team, but pitching could be our downfall. DD needs to act in that area for sure.

[moonslav59]

Yes, and now we need additional relief pitching. Hembree is irratic, Robbie Ross is not putting up ML numbers, Kelly has been bad of late, but I have opes for him. Velo is there, just needs to get it back together. I think we could use at least one reliever and possibly two, but we also need a second baseman as Pedroia doesn.t look like he will play again in 2018. After that, who know. We can scrape by at catcher and CF is not a big priority. We have a good team, but pitching could be our downfall. DD needs to act in that area for sure.

 

Ross is no longer here. Maybe you meant Scott or Workman.

[Station 13]

Phillips got promoted to Pawtucket, probably play tonight. Yes he is in the lineup.

 

Nunez days are numbered

[oldtimer]

Ross is no longer here. Maybe you meant Scott or Workman.

 

I meant Scott, good catch.

[Spudboy]

Nunez days are numbered

 

Doesn't he have a two year contract?

 

 

Edit:

1yr/6 with options

[MADSTORK]

Yes, and now we need additional relief pitching. Hembree is irratic, Robbie Ross is not putting up ML numbers, Kelly has been bad of late, but I have opes for him. Velo is there, just needs to get it back together. I think we could use at least one reliever and possibly two, but we also need a second baseman as Pedroia doesn.t look like he will play again in 2018. After that, who know. We can scrape by at catcher and CF is not a big priority. We have a good team, but pitching could be our downfall. DD needs to act in that area for sure.

 

LOL

 

You can thank DD for the 30 million dollar bust

30 mill to spend this July would start prepping the duck boats NOT!

[Slasher9]

LOL

 

You can thank DD for the 30 million dollar bust

30 mill to spend this July would start prepping the duck boats NOT!

 

Is this the same prediction like your 86 win total?

[moonslav59]

We heard the same about the Porcello extension.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR...

 

In further unfortunate news for the Red Sox’s staff, knuckleballer Steven Wright’s recovery from left knee inflammation is “taking longer than expected,” manager Alex Cora said Saturday (via Christopher Smith of MassLive.com). Wright, who went on the DL on June 26, is continuing to deal with soreness in that knee – which he had surgically repaired in May 2017. As a result, the Red Sox will have to continue awaiting his return.

[S5Dewey]

Is this the same prediction like your 86 win total?

 

In fairness to Stork, he didn't say WHEN the Sox would have 86 wins. I think he meant it would happen by Labor day.

[moonslav59]

In fairness to Stork, he didn't say WHEN the Sox would have 86 wins. I think he meant it would happen by Labor day.

 

Stork apologist!

 

 

[S5Dewey]

Stork apologist!

 

 

 

Ouch. That's going to leave a mark!

[oldtimer]

MLBTR...

 

In further unfortunate news for the Red Sox’s staff, knuckleballer Steven Wright’s recovery from left knee inflammation is “taking longer than expected,” manager Alex Cora said Saturday (via Christopher Smith of MassLive.com). Wright, who went on the DL on June 26, is continuing to deal with soreness in that knee – which he had surgically repaired in May 2017. As a result, the Red Sox will have to continue awaiting his return.

 

Yes and last night E-Rod sprained his surgically repaired knee. It could bee a major setback.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes and last night E-Rod sprained his surgically repaired knee. It could bee a major setback.

 

Sprained ankle according to the reports.