Sox re-sign Mitch Moreland

[Kimmi]

Thanks Ben!

 

No, that would be a 'Thanks Dave!'

[Kimmi]

When he wasn't dealing with a broken toe, his numbers were much better than you let on.

 

He had a better OPS than Xander, JBJ, Hanley and Vazquez.

 

ALSO, IT WAS FIVE ACES YOU GOOBER...

 

[dgalehouse]

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be a fan of a team with a pile of money that's willing to spend it.

 

Exactly. We don't have to be like one of the small market , small time Charlies still trying to win with " Moneyball " and looking for the next Scott Hatteburg. I never understood Sox fans worrying about the payroll all the time , then crying when the Yankees " bought the pennant ." I'm pretty sure the Steinbrenners are no wealthier than most of the other owners. I'm not asking for too much here. Just sign Martinez and a top free agent starting pitcher , and we should be able to keep up with the Yankees.

[Kimmi]

Hanley is too good to just release at the moment. I would just "platoon" or relegate him to the bench in case of injury and MAKE SURE he doesn't get thoose AB's he needs. Wish Panda had that clause in his contract too...

 

I agree about not releasing Hanley at the moment. I'd keep him around. If he's hitting well, there will be enough at bats for him between DH and 1B. If he stinks, the Sox will be able to limit his at bats without having to phantom DL him.

[Kimmi]

The problem is that there are only so many bodies you can keep on a roster. It doesn't make much sense to keep Hanley on the team as a bench bat.

 

It does if he's hitting well. If JD is signed, he can be our 4th outfielder as well as our primary DH. That saves a bench spot.

[Kimmi]

oh boy. proof please?

there is absolutely zero truth to your post. the narrative that hanram complains or throws tantrums is 100% false. the man has done everything...EVERYTHING...the Red Sox have asked him to do. without complaining once.

 

^^This.

[Kimmi]

I agree with you here...I think putting someone like Martinez in left and trading Bradley is less of an upgrade to the team as a whole than simply making Martinez the DH and keeping Bradley. I love our outfield as currently constituted and would hate to see it broken up...of course, it all depends on what we could get for JBJ, I suppose, but it would have to be a really great return to make it worth it.

 

Agree 100%. The downgrade on defense would void much of the upgrade on offense if we traded Jackie. IMO, it wouldn't be worth it.

[SCM33]

he missed alot of games after DHing too. because...you know...he had injuries. it's a false narrative that he didnt want to play 1b.

he played 17 games at 1b last season. he had back spasms and had to be pulled from the first game he played in the field. apparently someone like pedroia whom im sure you love because he a dirt dog would have gritted through it, right?

17 games at 1b

108 games at DH

if only he would cut off those damn dreadlocks. then he would want to play 1b!!!!!

 

Actually, I cant stand him. If youd like, you can search the forum for where I actually suggested they just cut him.

 

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-red-sox/charades-over-hanley-ramirez-doesnt-want-play-1b-and-thats-ok

^ In this article. Hanley does not want to play 1B.

 

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-red-sox/hanley-ramirez-playing-first-base-boston-red-sox-any-time

^ In this article, Hanley says that he "will do anything to help the team win" and that his shoulder is "nothing to worry about". Hanley then missed 3 games.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20170524/red-sox-not-planning-on-hanley-ramirez-being-able-to-play-first-base-in-2017

^ In this article, DD says that Hanleys inability to play 1B has "affected the club's roster a lot". Anything for the team Hanley right? Further, DD assumed that Hanley was fine because he never said anything about his shoulder during the offseason, yet Hanley entered the season assuming he was going to DH......THENNNNNN his shoulder started to hurt.

 

A lot of players surgeries in the offseason. Logan Mankins at 330 LBS played half a season on a torn acl. But yeah, I am sure that minor arthroscopic surgery he had was dehabiliting to the point that he couldn't stand on 1B and catch. God forbid that he has to attempt one of the two 3-6-3 double play attempts a 1B'man makes a year.

Edited December 20, 2017 by SCM33

[Bellhorn04]

No, that would be a 'Thanks Dave!'

 

OK, I'll compromise. 'Thanks Ben, Larry, John and Dave!'

[Kimmi]

They can't , they just can't stop worrying about the $. It is who they are. I'm with you though. I know little and could care less about the luxury tax.

 

I really don't care if Henry wants to throw $200 million at JD, if that is not going to prevent him from signing a player that we may need in the next couple of years. But we know that isn't the case. A bad contract today WILL limit the team's flexibility in the future, one way or another. My concern is not with how much Henry spends on any contract, it's with how that spending will potentially handcuff the team in the future.

[Kimmi]

Bingo. We all "care about the money" at some point, whether we admit it or not (don't tell me Pablo would have been so reviled if he was making $650k a year), and sometimes I've observed that the fans who are quickest to say "not my money" are the loudest to complain when the money gets spent in a way they don't like.

 

Personally, I care about contracts and so forth only to the extent that (as you mention) spending on one player affects what we can spend on another. Posting fees, signing bonuses, contracts that don't count towards luxury tax (hello Rusney), and so forth might as well be gravy.

 

 

 

Also, with regard to JBJ, isn't it fair to say that he was a pretty middle-of-the-pack starting center fielder in 2017 by most standards? I'm not sure what the hair-splitting about qualifying players is really adding to that discussion. He doesn't have to be a superstar or tops at his position to have real value.

 

Excellent post.

[Kimmi]

OK, I'll compromise. 'Thanks Ben, Larry, John and Dave!'

 

LOL I can live with that.

[Northern Star]

I finally figured out what DD stands for. Doesn't deliver.

[fxkatt]

I finally figured out what DD stands for. Doesn't deliver.

 

He delivered an upward-swing hitting coach. To convert all our doubles guys to homer guys. He did it in LA. Can he do it here??

[cp176]

I really don't care if Henry wants to throw $200 million at JD, if that is not going to prevent him from signing a player that we may need in the next couple of years. But we know that isn't the case. A bad contract today WILL limit the team's flexibility in the future, one way or another. My concern is not with how much Henry spends on any contract, it's with how that spending will potentially handcuff the team in the future.

 

I got it and the point makes sense. I don't think that signing Martinez to a reasonably lengthed contract is going to be any kind of an issue. I will say that I am not as enamored with the members of this current team as some here are. There are very few on this current roster that I care enough about to offer them gobs of $ to reup. A couple, yes, but not many. I also truly believe that someday JH is going to sell this team and when he does, the profit he makes will make any budget that we have now or have going forward look paltry.

[SCM33]

Exactly, that's why I lower the PA threshold until it reaches 30.

 

If you take out Betts and Cespedes, the "qualifying player list from 2015-2017 is 32.

 

JBJ placed....

 

11th in WAR out of 32.

 

11th in OPS

 

8th out of 30 in DRS

11th in UZR

 

That looks pretty much like he is close to top 3rd tier.

 

Even if you call him average, that has a lot of value.

 

So only now, you admit that you didn't first post stats that were honest, only ones to fit your argument.

 

Then you expand your argument to include the best season of his career (2015-2017), and to be honest, 2015 looks like a fluke. Surprised you didn't include his 2014 season. You know, the one where he hit .198 with 1 HR and had an OPS of .531 in 127 games?

 

You are ridiculous. You LITERALLY cherry pick stats to make him somehow appear acceptable. Its beyond ridiculous, the fact that you have to try that hard to cherry pick and make him appear AVERAGE, should be an indication that he isn't that good.

 

I am amazed each and every time you continue to post and manipulate the numbers, moonslav....honest question......are you Jackie Bradley Jr?

[SCM33]

^^This.

 

Except then I posted the articles, and the FACTS.

[S5Dewey]

11th in UZR/150 makes him pretty close to top third in my book.

 

 

Are you really trying to convince me that 10 CF's have more range than JBJ??? Just asking.

[moonslav59]

Are you really trying to convince me that 10 CF's have more range than JBJ??? Just asking.

 

No. I don't actually agree with the defensive numbers on JBJ. I think he's top 5 on defense.

 

I posted the numbers to show he has value.

 

I think he's worth more than the numbers indicate.

[SCM33]

No. I don't actually agree with the defensive numbers on JBJ. I think he's top 5 on defense.

 

I posted the numbers to show he has value.

 

I think he's worth more than the numbers indicate.

 

He is serviceable. I give you credit, you support your guy. I do not dislike Bradley, I just don't want to hear how great he is.

 

On a good offensive team, he hits 9th. Maybe 8th. On our team, he hits 6th...a good indication that your (our) team is weak offensively.

[moonslav59]

BTW...

 

I am very consistent with my criteria for judgement. I may cherry pick at times, but my history shows I do not value recent season as much as others and I like to use the previous 3 year sample size and then lower the PAs to the point where the sample size is 30 players, since there are 30 teams. (At times, I will go back 4 years, if one season was greatly affected by an injury.)

 

Saying someone is 8th best out of 14 says very little, when there are 30 CF'ers in MLB. Is the 14th out of 14 CF'er the worst in MLB? I seriously doubt it. He was good enough to play more than at least 16 other CF'ers. A sample size of 1000 PAs is large enough to flesh things out and rank players by the true factor: 30.

 

Yes, JBJ is streaky. If someone wants to say he's only as good as 2017 or 2014, fine, but one could say that is cherry-picking, too. I guarantee no GM looks at just a player's recent 1 season sample size. Every GM would love to have JBJ on his roster, especially at his low cost.

 

I never said he was "great". I claimed he was close to top 3rd and had value. There's a huge difference.

 

Change the sample size to 2014-2017 and all that "qualify. JBJ ranks...

 

20th out of 42 in CF OPS (.732)

 

4th out of 13 in UZR/150 (+9.8) and 39 DRS (9th out 38, if you go by 1500+ innings)

 

So, basically, he's an average hitting CF'er and a top 3rd defender at a very key position in baseball. To say that has little or no value is illogical.

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by moonslav59

[SCM33]

BTW...

 

I am very consistent with my criteria for judgement. I may cherry pick at times, but my history shows I do not value recent season as much as others and I like to use the previous 3 year sample size and then lower the PAs to the point where the sample size is 30 players, since there are 30 teams. (At times, I will go back 4 years, if one season was greatly affected by an injury.)

 

Saying someone is 8th best out of 14 says very little, when there are 30 CF'ers in MLB. Is the 14th out of 14 CF'er the worst in MLB? I seriously doubt it. He was good enough to play more than at least 16 other CF'ers. A sample size of 1000 PAs is large enough to flesh things out and rank players by the true factor: 30.

 

Yes, JBJ is streaky. If someone wants to say he's only as good as 2017 or 2014, fine, but one could say that is cherry-picking, too. I guarantee no GM looks at just a player's recent 1 season sample size. Every GM would love to have JBJ on his roster, especially at his low cost.

 

I never said he was "great". I claimed he was close to top 3rd and had value. There's a huge difference.

 

FWIW, I do agree that a player sometimes has immeasurables. As much as baseball geeks want to put a number to everything, you can't. I think he is probably the best defensive CF in the game. I dont care what his defensive WAR is, or his UZR is.

 

You really can't measure an OF'ers arm. Manny Ramirez lead baseball in OF assists twice, or was close to it twice. Was that because he had a great arm, or because opponents knew he was defensively challenged? There are as many youtube clips of Vlad Guerrero airmailing a throw into the stands as there are of him nailing a guy at 3B. I'd rather have the guy that makes all the throws he is supposed to.

 

I will get killed for it, but I still use fielding percentage as a measure of Outfield Defense. You always have the argument of a guy getting to a ball that others shouldn't have......but is the error worth it when you can field it on a hop, make a good throw and hold a guy to a long single, or a double?

 

People used to make that argument for Nomar, theyd say he would commit errors because he got to balls others didn't. What happened when Nomar no longer got to those balls? He became a defensive liability.

[moonslav59]

9th 794 times

6th 368

8th 302

7th 289

5th 165

 

7-9th 71% of his career. He has not been our 6th hitter very much (19%).

 

He hit 7-9th 83% of the time in 2017.

[moonslav59]

JBJ is also one of the best baserunners on the team.

[Slasher9]

JBj can get 1 measly single every 10 AB's all year long and he is my starting CF. I don't care if he bats .264, .215, or .100. he is that good defensively.

[Larry Cook]

JBj can get 1 measly single every 10 AB's all year long and he is my starting CF. I don't care if he bats .264, .215, or .100. he is that good defensively.

 

Our pitchers love the guy. What is amazing is his first step usually made at contact because he seems to know where the ball is going based on where the pitch is located.

 

Very hard to teach that!

 

Dave needs to focus on getting more pitching and let someone else eat jd’s contract,

[moonslav59]

JBj can get 1 measly single every 10 AB's all year long and he is my starting CF. I don't care if he bats .264, .215, or .100. he is that good defensively.

 

He's the best defensive CF'er I've ever seen in a Sox uniform. Fred Lynn is a close second before he crashed into the wall.

[S5Dewey]

No. I don't actually agree with the defensive numbers on JBJ. I think he's top 5 on defense.

 

I posted the numbers to show he has value.

 

I think he's worth more than the numbers indicate.

 

This is why I have so little faith in the advanced metrics. We now have Beni in LF whom most of us would agree is better than his numbers indicate because "LF in Fenway skews a player's metrics", and JBJ in CF who is allegedly 14th in baseball in UZR/150. These numbers can regurgitate some crazy s***, man. It makes me wonder how many other "advanced metrics" there are exceptions to. Or is it only confined to outfielders who play half their games in Fenway park???

[FredLynn]

So only now, you admit that you didn't first post stats that were honest, only ones to fit your argument.

 

Then you expand your argument to include the best season of his career (2015-2017), and to be honest, 2015 looks like a fluke. Surprised you didn't include his 2014 season. You know, the one where he hit .198 with 1 HR and had an OPS of .531 in 127 games?

 

You are ridiculous. You LITERALLY cherry pick stats to make him somehow appear acceptable. Its beyond ridiculous, the fact that you have to try that hard to cherry pick and make him appear AVERAGE, should be an indication that he isn't that good.

 

I am amazed each and every time you continue to post and manipulate the numbers, moonslav....honest question......are you Jackie Bradley Jr?

 

Everybody cherry picks the stats and data that best support their position...everybody. Its not only true here but its true everywhere else too.

[moonslav59]

This is why I have so little faith in the advanced metrics. We now have Beni in LF whom most of us would agree is better than his numbers indicate because "LF in Fenway skews a player's metrics", and JBJ in CF who is allegedly 14th in baseball in UZR/150. These numbers can regurgitate some crazy s***, man. It makes me wonder how many other "advanced metrics" there are exceptions to. Or is it only confined to outfielders who play half their games in Fenway park???

 

I don't think anyone claims WAR or UZR/150 are flawless. The same can be said about using just traditional numbers to compare the best players or attempt to rank them.

 

WAR and UZR/150 are just two of many tools to aid fans who do not have the time to watch and evaluate every play of every MLB game.