Fire alex cora

[Bellhorn04]

Time to rekindle some chat about the Paps-Harper chokeshow, is it?

 

That's what makes this place the best.

[mvp 78]

Time to rekindle some chat about the Paps-Harper chokeshow, is it?

 

That's what makes this place the best.

 

Paplebon is one of my least favorite Sox of all time.

[moonslav59]

Paplebon is one of my least favorite Sox of all time.

 

I loved the scowl he made looking in for the sign, and of course his results, but yes, me too.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox media all seem to think Cora is still very much in the good graces of ownership.

[Elktonnick]

Red Sox media all seem to think Cora is still very much in the good graces of ownership.

 

To be fair to the new guy whomever that will be but that should be his call. It isn't just but the whole coaching staff as well.

[notin]

Red Sox media all seem to think Cora is still very much in the good graces of ownership.

 

 

Cora is nothing great, but the Sox could do much worse. We did suffer through a full year of Bobby Valentine…

Edited September 16, 2023 by notin

[Dipre]

Cora is nothing great, but the Sox could do much worse. We did suffer through a full year of Bobby Valentine…

 

I tend to disagree. I think he's pretty damn good.

[sk7326]

Cora is nothing great, but the Sox could do much worse. We did suffer through a full year of Bobby Valentine…

 

He did a prety good job managing the pitching staff all things considered. And he wasn't the one who decided to field a roster of players who couldn't field.

 

Again, you look at 2021 - he got every drop out of that team.

[a700hitter]

Cora is nothing great, but the Sox could do much worse. We did suffer through a full year of Bobby Valentine…

He’s good at cheating, so props for that.

[notin]

I tend to disagree. I think he's pretty damn good.

 

At the very least I don’t think either of us will care if he isn’t fired.

[notin]

He did a prety good job managing the pitching staff all things considered. And he wasn't the one who decided to field a roster of players who couldn't field.

 

Again, you look at 2021 - he got every drop out of that team.

 

 

Why couldn’t he get anything more out of a better team in 2019?

[Bellhorn04]

Why couldn’t he get anything more out of a better team in 2019?

 

Mainly because so many starting pitchers had bad years/injuries, and the bullpen was weaker. And s*** happens.

[FredLynn]

He’s good at cheating, so props for that.

 

He's not that good at cheating.

He got caught.

[sk7326]

Why couldn’t he get anything more out of a better team in 2019?

 

The 2019 team scored more runs than the 2018. Basically the entire starting rotation collapsed - mostly health, but some performance. The 2023 team is going to only have 1 pitcher go over 150 innings pitched. Combine that with the wretched defensive personnel - there is just not much you can do with that.

[moonslav59]

Red Sox media all seem to think Cora is still very much in the good graces of ownership.

 

As most people know, I'm a big Cora fan, despite the mistakes he has made over his career. I seriously doubt he goes anywhere, but the new guy in charge might have a different idea.

[moonslav59]

He did a prety good job managing the pitching staff all things considered. And he wasn't the one who decided to field a roster of players who couldn't field.

 

Again, you look at 2021 - he got every drop out of that team.

 

I'd say his big mistake this year was sticking with Kike at SS, even after we got Reyes. (I'd have even played DHam there, longer or tried Arroyo at SS. Hell, bring up Rafaela a few months earlier, but maybe that was Bloom's call on Raff.)

[moonslav59]

Mainly because so many starting pitchers had bad years/injuries, and the bullpen was weaker. And s*** happens.

 

Wonder why that is an excuse for a manager but not a GM.

 

Was Bloom supposed to know a big chunk of the vest were going to get hurt, decline or both, and do what? Trade them right before their decline, even if they were fan faves?

 

(THat is what the Rays are famous for.)

[sk7326]

Wonder why that is an excuse for a manager but not a GM.

 

Was Bloom supposed to know a big chunk of the vest were going to get hurt, decline or both, and do what? Trade them right before their decline, even if they were fan faves?

 

(THat is what the Rays are famous for.)

 

Bloom put together a high variance rotation - both performance and medical-wise. The variance with the 2019 team was more unforeseen - particularly Sale and Porcello. Bullpen variance just comes with the gig.

[a700hitter]

Bloom put together a high variance rotation - both performance and medical-wise. The variance with the 2019 team was more unforeseen - particularly Sale and Porcello. Bullpen variance just comes with the gig.

”High variance” I think it is more accurate to say “highly suspect”.

[notin]

I'd say his big mistake this year was sticking with Kike at SS, even after we got Reyes. (I'd have even played DHam there, longer or tried Arroyo at SS. Hell, bring up Rafaela a few months earlier, but maybe that was Bloom's call on Raff.)

 

I think Bloom took far too long to promote Hamilton and Rafaela, whom I was told would most definitely NOT be a shortstop upon his promotion, despite the fact that he clearly played shortstop.

 

That’s more of Bloom’s far too passive approach that I didn’t like. I get giving a proper chance to a waiver claim pitcher or to Kike at shortstop. But you gotta know when to pull the plug. Give Cora another option so Kike bring out there is his fault, not yours.

 

Also I know the Sox have no front office right now. But someone needs to log on and DFA Ort, Jacques, Garza, Barraclaugh, and, what the heck, Kluber and Mondesi. (I’m shocked at myself, too, for holding Llovera. But he might not be horrible.)

 

Just because it needs to happen…

[notin]

Bloom put together a high variance rotation - both performance and medical-wise. The variance with the 2019 team was more unforeseen - particularly Sale and Porcello. Bullpen variance just comes with the gig.

 

Wrong.

 

For the millionth time, relief pitchers are not inconsistent. Inconsistent pitchers are relievers.

 

If you don’t like bullpen variance, get better relief pitchers…

[sk7326]

Wrong.

 

For the millionth time, relief pitchers are not inconsistent. Inconsistent pitchers are relievers.

 

If you don’t like bullpen variance, get better relief pitchers…

 

Or just more pitchers, period - which is usually how the teams at the top remain consistent there.

[moonslav59]

Bloom put together a high variance rotation - both performance and medical-wise. The variance with the 2019 team was more unforeseen - particularly Sale and Porcello. Bullpen variance just comes with the gig.

 

I'm talking Sale, Nate and ERod under Bloom. It wasn't just 2019, the big named pitchers struggled or got hurt.

 

ERod started 34 games in 2019 and then missed all of 2020.

Sale started 25 in 2019 and never came close, afterwards.

Nate sucked in 2019, but also missed a lot of time from 2020-2022, and wasn't great every year.

 

Bloom didn't even have Price and had no budget to replace him, until 2021's $10M/1 for Richards.

 

The one season Bloom got anything from the carry over SP'ers was 2021, and look what happened that fall.

32 GS Nate 3.75 ERA

31 GS ERod 4.74 ERA was not great but it sure beats Richards and Kluber.

(Getting 30 starts and 155 IP from newly acquired Pivetta helped, too.)

[moonslav59]

I think Bloom took far too long to promote Hamilton and Rafaela, whom I was told would most definitely NOT be a shortstop upon his promotion, despite the fact that he clearly played shortstop.

 

That’s more of Bloom’s far too passive approach that I didn’t like. I get giving a proper chance to a waiver claim pitcher or to Kike at shortstop. But you gotta know when to pull the plug. Give Cora another option so Kike bring out there is his fault, not yours.

 

Also I know the Sox have no front office right now. But someone needs to log on and DFA Ort, Jacques, Garza, Barraclaugh, and, what the heck, Kluber and Mondesi. (I’m shocked at myself, too, for holding Llovera. But he might not be horrible.)

 

Just because it needs to happen…

 

Kluber, Ort and Mondesi are on the 60 day IL, so they do not take up a roster slot. They are as good as DFA'd, and will be let go.

 

To me, even with no outside additions, the addition of Rule 5 players will take all the slots of the 60 man IL guys, which would leave these guys to be replaced with outside the system additions:

 

Jacques, Barraclough, Garza, Weiss>

SP1

SP2

SP4

LH'd RP

 

Then, can Llovera or Gillaspie for a RH'd power bat who can play plus D in CF or RF.

 

The 40 man might be stuck with one guy like Dalbec, but we could just protect one more rule 5 guy and trade him, too.

 

[notin]

I'm talking Sale, Nate and ERod under Bloom. It wasn't just 2019, the big named pitchers struggled or got hurt.

 

ERod started 34 games in 2019 and then missed all of 2020.

Sale started 25 in 2019 and never came close, afterwards.

Nate sucked in 2019, but also missed a lot of time from 2020-2022, and wasn't great every year.

 

Bloom didn't even have Price and had no budget to replace him, until 2021's $10M/1 for Richards.

 

The one season Bloom got anything from the carry over SP'ers was 2021, and look what happened that fall.

32 GS Nate 3.75 ERA

31 GS ERod 4.74 ERA was not great but it sure beats Richards and Kluber.

(Getting 30 starts and 155 IP from newly acquired Pivetta helped, too.)

 

And the Sox were passing Price until this year. In fact, the Sale/Price/Eovaldi combo was costing the Sox $58mill in AAV through the end of the 2022 season.

 

And people say we didn’t spend on pitching…

[moonslav59]

Wrong.

 

For the millionth time, relief pitchers are not inconsistent. Inconsistent pitchers are relievers.

 

If you don’t like bullpen variance, get better relief pitchers…

 

So, not all RP'ers are inconsistent.

 

Our pen could be fine, if we add 3 SP'er (even just 2 who can pitch 175+ IP.)

 

Jansen

Martin

Houck

Whitlock

Schreiber

Winckowski

Bernardino

Pivetta or Crawford (whichever one is not the 5th SP)

 

It is light on lefties.

 

The minor league depth:

Z Kelly

Joely

Murphy

Walter

Mills

Robertson

Guerrero

Converted SP'er

[moonslav59]

And the Sox were passing Price until this year. In fact, the Sale/Price/Eovaldi combo was costing the Sox $58mill in AAV through the end of the 2022 season.

 

And people say we didn’t spend on pitching…

 

Worse, we blamed Bloom for not spending.

[Bellhorn04]

And the Sox were passing Price until this year. In fact, the Sale/Price/Eovaldi combo was costing the Sox $58mill in AAV through the end of the 2022 season.

 

And people say we didn’t spend on pitching…

 

And Sox owners weren't expecting Bloom to waste the kind of money in 2023 that he did.

 

Story 23.3 fWAR -0.2

Yoshida 18 0.6

Kike 9 -1.6

Kluber 10 -0.8

 

Total cost 61.3 mill

Total fWAR MINUS 2

[dgalehouse]

It's not just about spending, but who you spend it on. Bloom spent on starting pitching. But he spent it on the wrong guys.

[moonslav59]

It's not just about spending, but who you spend it on. Bloom spent on starting pitching. But he spent it on the wrong guys.

 

$6.5 Perez

$5.5 Perez

$10M Richards

$7M Wacha

$5M Hill

$10M/2 Paxton

$10M Kluber

 

You get what you pay for, and he could have spent more on Pitching than O.

 

One could argue Bloom got about the right production for that money- maybe a little less.