A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[moonslav59]

I would add the Padres and Royals to my earlier list of Phillies, White Sox and Brewers as teams that can afford J.D. Martinez.

 

The Red Sox have competition.

 

Several teams "can afford" him, but for many paying him over $130M/5 would be a huge portion of their entire payroll.

 

They could do it with the idea that they might trade him later, but I haven't heard much about any other teams being seriously interested in JD.

[oldtimer]

I'm not sure how that "increases interest," since teams needing an OF'er already know he plays OF and about how much he will cost. They have not bid already, because they either don't need an OF'er or they do not want to pay what it might take to get him. So many teams usual high-bidders are looking to reset their tax this year.

 

I'm wondering if any other team would even offer $125/5, or would if they knew the price was dropping.

 

I would set that as the Red Sox limit and that has risk that he can be worth that much over 5 years.

[cp176]

I would set that as the Red Sox limit and that has risk that he can be worth that much over 5 years.

 

I would go as high as 150 but that would be it. 5 years max - like you old-timer, I would set a deadline date as well. I guess the good news is that DD might be doing exactly what we are thinking.

[harmony]

I would go as high as 150 but that would be it. 5 years max - like you old-timer, I would set a deadline date as well. I guess the good news is that DD might be doing exactly what we are thinking.

The deadline might be funny if J.D. Martinez already has better offers from other teams.

[Bellhorn04]

The deadline might be funny if J.D. Martinez already has better offers from other teams.

 

If there were better offers Boras just might pass that info on to us...

[harmony]

If there were better offers Boras just might pass that info on to us...

I doubt an agent would communicate all offers to all potential suitors.

 

If the Red Sox make a deadline offer, the agent may respond that he has better offers ... if, objectively or subjectively, he has better offers.

[cp176]

The deadline might be funny if J.D. Martinez already has better offers from other teams.

 

If he has a better offer than 5 and 125-150 then he should by all means take it for sure. Now we know what the sox have offered in terms of years but the $ figure remains a mystery. If Boras is in fact working for his client, he will pass on other offers to him as well as to the Red Sox. He knows I think that if they want to the Sox can match any offer out there. I hope that a limit and a deadline have both been set.

[notin]

I doubt an agent would communicate all offers to all potential suitors.

 

If the Red Sox make a deadline offer, the agent may respond that he has better offers ... if, objectively or subjectively, he has better offers.

 

Boras might not communicate thr specific teams but he certainly lets bidding parties no where they need to be.

[oldtimer]

The deadline might be funny if J.D. Martinez already has better offers from other teams.

 

We should offer based upon perceived value, not on what some other team is willing to offer. Meanwhile, life and the market moves on. There are stirrings out there with the Braves, with Hosmer and others. The realization is that waiting has risks.

[harmony]

If he has a better offer than 5 and 125-150 then he should by all means take it for sure. Now we know what the sox have offered in terms of years but the $ figure remains a mystery. If Boras is in fact working for his client, he will pass on other offers to him as well as to the Red Sox. He knows I think that if they want to the Sox can match any offer out there. I hope that a limit and a deadline have both been set.

What if he has several offers better than five years and $125 million? Should Scott Boras play those teams off against each other?

 

If Boras has a firm offer from the Red Sox, should Boras email that offer to all teams and ask each team to top it?

 

I don't think negotiations are that specific.

 

Should the Red Sox tell Boras that they'll top any offer from another team? If so, what should Boras do with that information in negotiations with other clubs?

[moonslav59]

I'm very curious about the idea that maybe no other team has offered more than $125M/5 or $130M/5.

 

I'm not sure I'd rush to offer $150M/6 or set any deadline.

 

I'd try to ask Boras to give us the opportunity to match or top any offer another team presents to JD, but I'm not sure that is always something an agent will agree to do, especially if another team asks Boras not to tell any other team about an offer they give.

 

It's probably best to just give what you think he is worth, knowing full well you are overpaying with the market rate. Don't set a deadline, until you feel your option B or C is about to disappear, and you're not happy with plan D.

[moonslav59]

What if he has several offers better than five years and $125 million? Should Scott Boras play those teams off against each other?

 

What if he has none, and we're just bidding against ourselves. How much can you trust Boras to be honest about what other teams are offering?

[Elktonnick]

What if he has several offers better than five years and $125 million? Should Scott Boras play those teams off against each other?

 

What if he has none, and we're just bidding against ourselves. How much can you trust Boras to be honest about what other teams are offering?

 

Obviously I don't know Mr Boras personally nor do I know anyone who does, but clearly Mr Boras has an excellent reputation in baseball that's why he is so successful. Agents who aren't honest with the parties with whom they negotiate tend not to last long. Remember Boras has to treat the ballclubs with whom he deals ethically and fairly. That doesn't mean that he tells them everything he knows but it does mean he can't deliberately deceive them.

[Hitch]

What if he has several offers better than five years and $125 million? Should Scott Boras play those teams off against each other?

 

If Boras has a firm offer from the Red Sox, should Boras email that offer to all teams and ask each team to top it?

 

I don't think negotiations are that specific.

 

Should the Red Sox tell Boras that they'll top any offer from another team? If so, what should Boras do with that information in negotiations with other clubs?

 

 

You don't think an agent that is trying to get the best possible deal for his client tells all the interested parties that this is the number ($x) they need to beat if they want him? Really? Of course they tell the other suitors. Unless a player has a hankering for one certain club, everyone knows the price they need to beat. Especially if there are several teams bidding.

[Bellhorn04]

Obviously I don't know Mr Boras personally nor do I know anyone who does, but clearly Mr Boras has an excellent reputation in baseball that's why he is so successful. Agents who aren't honest with the parties with whom they negotiate tend not to last long. Remember Boras has to treat the ballclubs with whom he deals ethically and fairly. That doesn't mean that he tells them everything he knows but it does mean he can't deliberately deceive them.

 

Boras has a reputation of getting the most money for his clients, that's a little different from having an excellent reputation for being an ethical dealer. He seems to have done some questionable stuff over the years, based on the stories that have come out. The Johnny Damon negotiations being just one example. (The Red Sox claimed that Boras told them he would give them a chance to match the Yankees best offer, then didn't make the call.)

 

But he has obviously done very well overall to be where he is today.

[Elktonnick]

Boras has a reputation of getting the most money for his clients, that's a little different from having an excellent reputation for being an ethical dealer. He seems to have done some questionable stuff over the years, based on the stories that have come out. The Johnny Damon negotiations being just one example. (The Red Sox claimed that Boras told them he would give them a chance to match the Yankees best offer, then didn't make the call.)

 

But he has obviously done very well overall to be where he is today.

 

And you believe the Larry Lucchino Red Sox of the time.

[Bellhorn04]

And you believe the Larry Lucchino Red Sox of the time.

 

Larry Lucchino is hardly the only baseball executive who has had issues with Boras. If it was just Lucchino you might have a point.

[notin]

Boras has a reputation of getting the most money for his clients, that's a little different from having an excellent reputation for being an ethical dealer. He seems to have done some questionable stuff over the years, based on the stories that have come out. The Johnny Damon negotiations being just one example. (The Red Sox claimed that Boras told them he would give them a chance to match the Yankees best offer, then didn't make the call.)

 

But he has obviously done very well overall to be where he is today.

 

Was that really Boras being unethical? Our Damon deciding the Yankee offer was the one he wanted to accept? I can't imagine Boras not giving every interested party one final chance to bid. ..

[notin]

Larry Lucchino is hardly the only baseball executive who has had issues with Boras. If it was just Lucchino you might have a point.

 

When Jay Bruce declared from the draft from high school, he selected Scott Boras to be his agent. He was told by several scouts that because of this, many teams would not select him. Bruce promptly switched agents.

 

Kenny Williams also refused to deal with Scott Boras for a long time, even going so far as to trade away several Boras clients already on his roster...

[Kimmi]

We should offer based upon perceived value, not on what some other team is willing to offer. Meanwhile, life and the market moves on. There are stirrings out there with the Braves, with Hosmer and others. The realization is that waiting has risks.

 

I don't think that the Sox should get into a bidding war with another team. They should already have in mind what they think JD is worth, and not go above that limit. Theo operated that way. I'm not sure that Dombrowski does.

 

At any rate, I hope that Dombrowski has asked Boras to give him a chance to beat any offer given to JD before allowing JD to sign with another team. Not that Dombrowski should necessarily beat said offer, but at least give him that courtesy in case the other offer is not crazy.

[Kimmi]

What if he has several offers better than five years and $125 million? Should Scott Boras play those teams off against each other?

 

If Boras has a firm offer from the Red Sox, should Boras email that offer to all teams and ask each team to top it?

 

I don't think negotiations are that specific.

 

Should the Red Sox tell Boras that they'll top any offer from another team? If so, what should Boras do with that information in negotiations with other clubs?

 

In terms of being a good agent, I think Boras should play teams against each other and I think that he should ask other interested teams to top it. He should be trying to get the best offers he can get, then let his client decide which one he wants.

 

I don't think the Sox should tell Boras that they'll top any offer, but I think the Sox should ask Boras to give them that chance.

[Kimmi]

Was that really Boras being unethical? Our Damon deciding the Yankee offer was the one he wanted to accept? I can't imagine Boras not giving every interested party one final chance to bid. ..

 

IMO, that was Damon being a baby because his feelings were hurt by the Sox.

 

Not that I hold a grudge against Damon or anything...........

[harmony]

In terms of being a good agent, I think Boras should play teams against each other and I think that he should ask other interested teams to top it. He should be trying to get the best offers he can get, then let his client decide which one he wants.

 

I don't think the Sox should tell Boras that they'll top any offer, but I think the Sox should ask Boras to give them that chance.

Should Scott Boras grant each team that courtesy?

[Kimmi]

When Jay Bruce declared from the draft from high school, he selected Scott Boras to be his agent. He was told by several scouts that because of this, many teams would not select him. Bruce promptly switched agents.

 

Kenny Williams also refused to deal with Scott Boras for a long time, even going so far as to trade away several Boras clients already on his roster...

 

Right or wrong, when a player selects Boras as his agent, I lose a little bit of respect for that player. Not because of Boras personally, but because of the inherent message that the player is sending.

[notin]

IMO, that was Damon being a baby because his feelings were hurt by the Sox.

 

Not that I hold a grudge against Damon or anything...........

 

Damon also has no place to play in Boston. He wasn't very good in CF anymore. He wasn't going to supplant Manny in LF or Ortiz at DH. And he couldn't play RF because he threw like a right-handed thrower who was trying to use his left arm...

[Kimmi]

Should Scott Boras grant each team that courtesy?

 

Yes, he should grant that courtesy to each team that he knows is seriously interested.

 

Obviously, as a Red Sox fan, I would want him to only grant the courtesy to the Sox, but as an agent, he has to grant the courtesy to all teams.

[moonslav59]

Obviously I don't know Mr Boras personally nor do I know anyone who does, but clearly Mr Boras has an excellent reputation in baseball that's why he is so successful. Agents who aren't honest with the parties with whom they negotiate tend not to last long. Remember Boras has to treat the ballclubs with whom he deals ethically and fairly. That doesn't mean that he tells them everything he knows but it does mean he can't deliberately deceive them.

 

There are several teams, I believe, that will not do business with Bore-A$$. I'm not sure his "reputation" with GMs/owners is all that high.

[Kimmi]

Damon also has no place to play in Boston. He wasn't very good in CF anymore. He wasn't going to supplant Manny in LF or Ortiz at DH. And he couldn't play RF because he threw like a right-handed thrower who was trying to use his left arm...

 

This was all very true. I was highly upset when Damon defected to the Evil Empire, but the bottom line is that Theo was right to let him walk for the reasons that you mentioned.

 

But let's not forget the fact that Damon is a big crybaby traitor.

[moonslav59]

Should Scott Boras grant each team that courtesy?

 

If they ask, why not? (Unless another team says don't tell anyone what my offer is.)

[moonslav59]

This was all very true. I was highly upset when Damon defected to the Evil Empire, but the bottom line is that Theo was right to let him walk for the reasons that you mentioned.

 

But let's not forget the fact that Damon is a big crybaby traitor.

 

Although Damon did well for the Yanks, we were right to let him go.

 

We've actually had a very good track record on big- named we let go to free agency-- just before the sucked or got hurt.

 

Beltre hurt, but we did get JBJ and Swihart as comp picks for letting him go.