2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[moonslav59]

No one not me not you not anyone can say his Defense is a train wreck it's incomplete .The pop we need is any warm body that can out slug and get oB more than what we have had ...I'm done defending a ghost though ...until he proves me right ....I'm an idiot for my own projections ...I don't mind putting myself out there for this player or that but this iis pointless ...The player needs to get the shot first ...no more zips for Blake no more projections about a player we all know just needs ABs

 

Every single person with knowledge of catcher defense and the Red Sox would say Swihart is worse on defense and game calling than Leon & Vaz. I'm sure of this.

 

Now, you are back to saying Swihart has more "pop" and "slugging", when there is no evidence to support your claim... even ST'ing numbers show Leon is at least equal.

 

Again, I'm all for trying to find ABs for Swihart. That's one reason I hated the Moreland signing (not the major one). I want Swihart to make the 25 man roster, and he'll get a chance to earn more and more playing time by showing he can one, hit better than others and two field any position he is asked to field at a decent level.

 

I do think he should hit better than Leon this year and probably better than Vaz as well, but I think you vastly under estimate the value of catcher defense, and or you vastly over rate Swiharts catcher defense. Yes, he can throw guys out well enough. To me, and many others, that's just a small fraction of the value of catcher defense.

 

Swihart is already old enough to have shown significant growth in this area. Can he get better? Of course, he can. VTek wasn't really a great defensive catcher until his early 30's.

 

We are not going to hand Swihart a big chunk of starting duties in hopes he learns as he goes. We're already doing that at 3B and have serious defensive issues at 2B and SS (and 1B with HRam). Swihart's best chaance at getting ABs is at 1B or through injury. He can PH a lot, and show he can hit, and then he may get more and more ABs. Even then (assuming an .850 OPS), I doubt they make him the 1 or 2 catcher.

Edited March 13, 2018 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Blake is not Gary Sanchez over there for the yanks who hits moon shots and an elite Power bat ...Blake probably has the same D as Gary though ...The question is will Blake hit ? Yes will Blake hit for high average ohh yeah his bat speed is there ... Will Blake ever hit moon shots or even hit 30 out ? Umm not likely ...Will Blake hit more out than Vaz ? Yes Sandy ? Yes ...but only if he's the number 2 Catcher . Likelihood of Blake given this job ?I hope it's over 70 percent but it's probably closer to 30'.Why not let Blake catch Vel ,Johnson,Price,Porcello and steer clear of Sale ? Let Sandy be his caddy .The line this pitching staff is fragile ..You're right they are and they need as many runs as they can possibly get ...will Blake have passed balls ? Yes will Devers have passed balls ? Yes will just about everyone we have Nunez and the like have issues yes unless you're name is Mookie Or Jackie they will ...This is not saying we don't have a good team we do ...Give this kid his reps Now not later ...figure out by June if he's our future like Devers and Betts .

 

2012-2017 Sox catcher numbers

 

ISO

.124 Leon (.129 in 2017)

.113 Swihart

.094 Vazquez (.114 in 2017)

 

SLG

.383 Swihart

.375 Leon (.354 in 2017)

.355 Vazquez (.404 in 2017)

 

[Natick to NC]

I give up you win kid can't hit he won't ever be better than Sandy and Vaz he should just pack it in .....what a worthless no defense ,very little offense waste of time ...there ya go moon !!! Happy .???...me too

[moonslav59]

If we had not signed Moreland, we'd have over $10M to spend in this "candy store" instead of about $4M.

 

Swihart could get some reps at 1B to help keep HRam from vesting. When JD plays DH, we could use Swihart in LF whenever an OF'er needed a rest or got hurt.

 

We could also PH for our catchers with impunity, since Swihart could act as our 3rd catcher. (He might also be the one PH'ing for aour starting catcher that game.)

 

Swihart could easily get 300-400+ PAs, assuming he does well.

 

Now, with Moreland on the bench, Swihart is squeezed out of any meaningful non-injury-related chance to get many PAs.

 

I do think, even with the deck stacked aginst him, if Swihart hits well, we'll find him a way to get meaningful PAs, or we'll trade him.

[moonslav59]

True on both fronts. Which only highlights my opinion on the significance of panicly adding another SP without any real evidence of needing one quite yet. I’d rather wait and get a good one months ( & months) from now.

 

Also, I feel confident leaning on our offense earlier in the season. It typically takes 4-6 starts in the rotation to start judging any SP. It takes that long for them to start peaking and getting in their own groove (if there’s a groove to be had, that is). I’ll start projecting then.

 

I’d agree with Notin if our budget wasn’t so f***ed. I’d have loved to sign Lynn, but we couldn’t afford even his cheap & short contract (we’d be $8M over the 2nd penalty, right?).

 

Yes, but if we hadn't signed Moreland and traded Holt (DFA), we probably could have squeezed Lynn or Cobb into our budget.

 

I totally agree on keeping the $4-5M spending budget into the season. Give Johnson and Velazquez a 4-5 game leash, and by then, we'll know more about the health status of Pom, Price, Wright and ERod.

 

I know it's hard to find a decent SP'er in May, but it's not impossible.

 

The added benefit of waiting is that we just pay the pro-rated salary of whoever we pick up. That makes it easier to squeeze under the $4-5M we have left and get better quality than we can get now.

 

[cp176]

I'm pulling hard for Johnson after everything that he has had to deal with. I think that it would be very hard to find an affordable sp right now that would give us much more than he can.

[moonslav59]

I'm pulling hard for Johnson after everything that he has had to deal with. I think that it would be very hard to find an affordable sp right now that would give us much more than he can.

 

How ready can any new pitcher be for game 5 in April?

 

I think we are going to go with what we got and hope returning starters get healthy by the time we need to move on from a failing experiment, assuming one or two fail from Johnson/Velazquez.

[Kimmi]

Be careful. You are sounding pretty old school here!

 

I am more old school than most people realize.

[Kimmi]

On this forum about 14 months ago I compared Blake Swihart with Jarrod Saltalmacchia (and Mike Zunino). Early scouting reports on Swihart and Saltalamacchia were similar in terms of hitting tool and overall athleticism.

 

Swihart and Saltalmacchia had similarly disappointing age 25 seasons, Swihart in 2017 and Saltalamacchia in 2010. In their age 25 seasons, each spent considerable time in the minors after gaining at least 100 games of MLB experience in previous years.

 

It should be interesting to see whether Swihart can top Saltalamacchia's season high of 3.5 fWAR in 2013 or Saltalamacchia's career fWAR of 8.9.

 

Swihart has the potential to be a much better defensive catcher than Salty ever was.

[Kimmi]

I agree that its unlikely that we will get more pop at 1B this year, not from those two guys anyway. On the other hand, I am pretty sure that Swihart has far more potential to produce offensive numbers than Leon does. Since we won't be getting pop at 1B it is important that we make it up elsewhere, say, at the catcher position. There have been many catchers throughout baseball history who can hit the ball. If, as expected, Leon hits horribly I think its perfectly reasonable to consider dumping him midseason and giving his reps to Swihart.

 

It depends on how horribly Leon hits and how well Swihart can play the position. But at midseason, yes, it might be reasonable to consider making that change. At this point, there is no way I'd even consider it.

[moonslav59]

Swihart has the potential to be a much better defensive catcher than Salty ever was.

 

Maybe, but the fact that Sox management has all but given up on Swihart as a catcher speaks volumes.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe, but the fact that Sox management has all but given up on Swihart as a catcher speaks volumes.

 

But he's catching in a lot of the spring training games.

[moonslav59]

But he's catching in a lot of the spring training games.

 

I was expecting to see him playing 1B and 3B more often. Maybe they are doing that in practice time. Still, I'm not sure we can read too much into Swi starting 4 of 18 games. Six catchers have 21+ innings. Swi has 23 innings.

 

 

I could see Swihart eventually winning the 2 catcher slot, but I doubt it happens, especially by opening day.

Edited March 14, 2018 by moonslav59

[Nick]

Had we not signed following

Hanley $22M

Sandoval $18M

Price $31M

Kimbrel $13M

Porcello $20

That's $104M that we could have used to sign every FA in the market.

 

Better yet, I propose we trade following players

 

Price, Porcello, Sale, Kimbrel, Hanley, Dustin, Betts, JBJ, Xander.....pretty much start over with Beni and Devers.

 

Lets' suffer through 120 game losing seasons, stock up on high draft picks and some AA talent from all the trades.

 

Lets make 2022 not as a 'cliff' year, but the 'summit' year. Hell we'll have around $150M to spend on top free agents.

 

Good grief.

 

It's time to move on.

 

MY f***ING TEAM IS ON THE FIELD AND READY TO KICK SOME f***ING ASS.

[Natick to NC]

Two weeks and we all row together Nick but right now .....not so much

[moonslav59]

Two weeks and we all row together Nick but right now .....not so much

 

Let's just hope we hold onto those paddles.

[Emp9]

Yes, but if we hadn't signed Moreland and traded Holt (DFA), we probably could have squeezed Lynn or Cobb into our budget.

 

 

That would’ve been great. I found the Moreland signing a bit of a head scratcher anyway and Holt... well, we have the same opinion on Holt. Should’ve traded him to an NL team while his value was at it’s highest back when he was named an All Star.

[Natick to NC]

Let's just hope we hold onto those paddles.

 

Yes moon exactly .

[cp176]

Interesting article on the mlb rumors website this morning. Seems that the Sox have been trying to sign some veteran arms to stash down in Pawtucket. This doesn't surprise me at all. It just is not that easy. Many of these tired old potential has beens do not want to pitch at the AAA level if they can absolutely help it. Points out the fact that DD isn't just sitting around doing nothing. Maybe something will break and maybe it won't as we get closer to the end of sp. Makes me really appreciate the signing of Tommy Layne even more. He knows where he is going and can live with it to continue the dream.

[Bellhorn04]

Interesting article on the mlb rumors website this morning. Seems that the Sox have been trying to sign some veteran arms to stash down in Pawtucket. This doesn't surprise me at all. It just is not that easy. Many of these tired old potential has beens do not want to pitch at the AAA level if they can absolutely help it. Points out the fact that DD isn't just sitting around doing nothing. Maybe something will break and maybe it won't as we get closer to the end of sp. Makes me really appreciate the signing of Tommy Layne even more. He knows where he is going and can live with it to continue the dream.

 

This does help answer the question of why we haven't signed any dumpster dives yet.

[cp176]

This does help answer the question of why we haven't signed any dumpster dives yet.

 

that's what I thought

[harmony]

But he's catching in a lot of the spring training games.

By my count Blake Swihart has appeared at catcher in only five* of his 13 Spring Training games so far this year (with five games as designated hitter, two games at first base and one game in left field).

 

* counting the February 22 game against Northeastern University. Swihart has caught only four games against MLB foes.

[Bellhorn04]

By my count Blake Swihart has appeared at catcher in only five* of his 13 Spring Training games so far this year (with five games as designated hitter, two games at first base and one game in left field).

 

* counting the February 22 game against Northeastern University. Swihart has caught only four games against MLB foes.

 

Seems they're grooming him to be the Swiss Army Knife, but still see him doing some catching.

[Jack Flap]

Interesting article on the mlb rumors website this morning. Seems that the Sox have been trying to sign some veteran arms to stash down in Pawtucket. This doesn't surprise me at all. It just is not that easy. Many of these tired old potential has beens do not want to pitch at the AAA level if they can absolutely help it. Points out the fact that DD isn't just sitting around doing nothing. Maybe something will break and maybe it won't as we get closer to the end of sp. Makes me really appreciate the signing of Tommy Layne even more. He knows where he is going and can live with it to continue the dream.

 

I saw this as well...not surprising and it makes sense, both that the Red Sox are interested and that they're having some difficulty getting these veteran types to bite. I think we probably have passable depth for the time being, but it never hurts to monitor the market and see what becomes available.

[moonslav59]

By my count Blake Swihart has appeared at catcher in only five* of his 13 Spring Training games so far this year (with five games as designated hitter, two games at first base and one game in left field).

 

* counting the February 22 game against Northeastern University. Swihart has caught only four games against MLB foes.

 

Innings as a catcher vs MLB teams:

 

32 Vaz

27 O Hernandez

23 Butler

23 Rei

23 Swihart

21 Leon

9 Procyshen & J Nunez

 

I don't really see a sign here for turning Swihart into our #2 catcher, but then again....

 

Swihart's innings elsewhere:

 

11 at 1B

6 at LF

0 at 2B or 3B

[harmony]

Innings as a catcher vs MLB teams:

 

32 Vaz

27 O Hernandez

23 Butler

23 Rei

23 Swihart

21 Leon

9 Procyshen & J Nunez

 

I don't really see a sign here for turning Swihart into our #2 catcher, but then again....

 

Swihart's innings elsewhere:

 

11 at 1B

6 at LF

0 at 2B or 3B

Impressive. Where do you find that information?

[moonslav59]

Impressive. Where do you find that information?

 

MLB.com

 

click on stats- springtraing sortable, fielding- teams- position...

[jacksonianmarch]

I highly doubt the sox keep 3 catchers. Swihart isn’t a MIF. He’s not a 3b either. He’s a not so good bat with no good position. I know everyone loves him from his prospect days, but if he cannot catch reasonably well, then he’s a useless big leaguer

[moonslav59]

I highly doubt the sox keep 3 catchers. Swihart isn’t a MIF. He’s not a 3b either. He’s a not so good bat with no good position. I know everyone loves him from his prospect days, but if he cannot catch reasonably well, then he’s a useless big leaguer

 

Injuries interrupted his growth.

 

His hit tool is still largely unknown, so writing him off so soon might be wrong.

 

His ability to play LF and 1B could keep him around long enough to explore the hit tool more closely.

 

Nunez at 2B keeps him from being the 4th OF'er until Pedey returns, so Swihart could get some PAs there. We can PH for our catchers more freely with 3, and since our catcher position is our weakest offensive position, we could see Swihart's 3rd catcher role come in more handy than keeping two infielders on the bench who will never play. (Marrero or Lin might be used as late inning replacements, but I can't see Holt getting any reasonable amountof playing time. He's not a better fielder than anyone, excpet maybe slightly over Devers, but Marrero and Lin are better.

 

Swihart should make the 25 roster, at least until Pedey returns, but even then he might have earned a spot by then with his bat and (assuming) decent defense in LF or 1B.

[Natick to NC]

Jackson ..I think the Redsox have about a year to decide all that ...but you're right he's worth a lot to us as a catcher mostly .upside is a hell of a thing and he needs to break through now like you and others have pointed out ...I've let it be known I feel he's a catcher but that means nothing ....Prove them wrong Swi ....up to you . Edited March 14, 2018 by Natick to NC