2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Slasher9]

I take all of my meatball comments back - I am the meatball! I would bet a great deal (figuratively ) of course that Pomeranz will win twice as many ml league games as Espinoza before it is all over.

 

that would be an interesting bet worth revisiting in 10 years. Pom certainly had a great regular season in 2017. i am hopeful to see similar stats 2018.

BTW - i heart meatballs.

[Jack Flap]

You're right. Some transactions will give us more to talk about. But the GM analysis and comparisons will never stop. It's a lot like a political topic.

 

I agree the subject isn't going to go away (nor should it, as it's a legitimate topic for discussion) - it's more a matter of there being nothing new to say about it at this point that hasn't been said over and over already. In a few weeks we should have some more sexy DD action to talk about, and next year will bring further evidence of whether his moves are or are not working out, but right now all we can do is rehash old arguments...

Edited November 29, 2017 by Jack Flap

[Slasher9]

I wonder if DD would have signed EE at $60M/3 had he known that was going to be the cost before he signed Moreland.

 

Did he just misjudge the market cost for EE, or did he just not really want him all that much?

 

Not sure we'll ever know.

 

Commander Data would not allow it. 2017 was a LT reset. if EE was available this offseason as opposed to last he would be on the Sox for 2018.

[Slasher9]

I was on DD from Spring Training about the offense.

 

100% true.

[Bellhorn04]

Commander Data would not allow it. 2017 was a LT reset. if EE was available this offseason as opposed to last he would be on the Sox for 2018.

 

Exactly right.

[moonslav59]

No smart guy. The point is that Moon said something that was clearly wrong and a700 was polite ( initially ) in pointing it out.

 

Kopech was nursing a broken hand or something 3 years ago. In any case Moon was incorrect in saying Kopech was near ready. He has never been that.

 

With all due respect, it was about 2 years ago, not three when DD took over.

[moonslav59]

Commander Data would not allow it. 2017 was a LT reset. if EE was available this offseason as opposed to last he would be on the Sox for 2018.

 

We could have scrimped and saved to sign EE for $20M a year AND still reset the tax. The question is did DD know EE could have been had for $20M when he signed Moreland. Personally, I think not, and that's why we signed Moreland. It's pure speculation on my part, but it seems like a lot of people were surprised at how little EE ended up making (including EE himself).

 

Had we not signed Moreland , we'd have had $5.5M. We could have not signed Abad or Holt for another $4M. We could have not traded for Nunez, Reed or Davis and saved the rest, or we could have traded Young before the season and saved some or most of his $6.5M. My point is, if DD really wanted EE, he could have made it happen AND stayed below the luxury tax line, but it would have been a gamble on not needing any expensive mid season acquisitions.

[cp176]

We could have scrimped and saved to sign EE for $20M a year AND still reset the tax. The question is did DD know EE could have been had for $20M when he signed Moreland. Personally, I think not, and that's why we signed Moreland. It's pure speculation on my part, but it seems like a lot of people were surprised at how little EE ended up making (including EE himself).

 

Had we not signed Moreland , we'd have had $5.5M. We could have not signed Abad or Holt for another $4M. We could have not traded for Nunez, Reed or Davis and saved the rest, or we could have traded Young before the season and saved some or most of his $6.5M. My point is, if DD really wanted EE, he could have made it happen AND stayed below the luxury tax line, but it would have been a gamble on not needing any expensive mid season acquisitions.

 

The Red Sox scrimping and saving. A thought I cannot conjure - sorry. No offense but it makes no difference how much you or any of our other posters here who want us to act like Tampa or Minnesota, I will never buy into the theory that the Sox are more concerned about budget as opposed to doing what it takes to win.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox scrimping and saving. A thought I cannot conjure - sorry. No offense but it makes no difference how much you or any of our other posters here who want us to act like Tampa or Minnesota, I will never buy into the theory that the Sox are more concerned about budget as opposed to doing what it takes to win.

 

I think it was pretty obvious a high priority was given to reset the tax. It wasn't 100% that they had to do it, so I agree with your point.

 

My point was that we could have signed EE and reset the tax, if DD got creative and wanted to do both.

[cp176]

I think it was pretty obvious a high priority was given to reset the tax. It wasn't 100% that they had to do it, so I agree with your point.

 

My point was that we could have signed EE and reset the tax, if DD got creative and wanted to do both.

 

I onderstaand your point. You have expressed it clearly on numerous occasions. It wasn't as obvious to me that resetting the luxury tax was as big a deal to JH than some here at talksox think it was or want it to be.

[mvp 78]

The MLB team would have been in the playoffs in 2016 without Dombrowski selling off the farm.

 

There's no way to really say that for sure.

[mvp 78]

And a World Series champion...

 

That was years before they went belly up two straight years.

[mvp 78]

It is hypocritical that the same people who talk about the playoffs as crapshoot will criticize DD for consistently getting to the crap table, but not winning the Championship. At the same time the laud praise on Ben for finishing last 3 Times in 4 seasons and winning at the crap table the one time he got there. Sorry, but I will opt for consistent winning baseball that gives us a chance at a championship each October, but that is just me. At least my position doesn’t smack of hypocrisy.

 

This is a good point.

[mvp 78]

Actually my criticism of DD is he does everything short term and doesn't try to get a steady stream of MLB talent in the pipeline like Scherholz did and Cherington was trying to do. Yes he can get you to the table a few times, but it can also have a very poor showing afterwards, like Detroit (worst record in the AL last year with a high payroll built on his contracts).

 

If/when Boston has a similar funk, I trust you will be as disparaging of Dombrowski as you are of Cherington. Otherwise THAT would be hypocritical...

 

How much talent do you need in the pipeline if you can sign your 3b, SS, OF, C on long term deals if you want to keep them?

[mvp 78]

I was on DD from Spring Training about the offense. I felt that he really missed the boat and misjudged the market for Encarnacion. It was a gripe that I carried throughout the season.

 

********. You never carry on and on about the same gripe for a whole season.

[mvp 78]

Will we ever know how much of what happened was Ben and how much was Larry?

 

I think the signing of Hanley and Pablo was 100 percent Larry!

 

I think porcello’s extension was 100 percent Ben!

 

Bottom line is desperate dave ran off all those young studs in the baseball operations department and is winging it on his own! Our job is to prepare ourselves for a team that resembles the current Detroit fiasco in a few years!

 

Ps: as long as desperate Dave is running the show, I do not think we get another ring. Just a couple of years of very close!

 

This is crazy talk. You can't pick and chose who gets the credit. That information isn't out there and you weren't in the front office.

[mvp 78]

Maybe the Marlins will finally trade Stanton somewhere soon and save us from the 9,238th comparing/contrasting of Ben and Dave and rehashing of all of their respective decisions and transactions.

 

All that needs to be said is that Theo was better than Ben or DD and ownership was dumb for not taking control away from Larry and forcing Theo out.

[mvp 78]

Commander Data would not allow it. 2017 was a LT reset. if EE was available this offseason as opposed to last he would be on the Sox for 2018.

 

Terrible post. I believe he only ever achieved the rank of lieutenant commander.

 

By 2379, Data was expected to succeed Commander Riker as first officer following Riker's promotion to captain of the USS Titan. En route to Betazed for the second phase of Riker's wedding to Counselor Troi, the Enterprise discovered B-4, one of the three prototype Soong-type androids Data had learned about years earlier, physically identical to him but having a less sophisticated positronic brain. Trying to help him become more Human, Data copied his own memories into B-4's positronic net.

 

Before Data could take the role of first officer of the Enterprise, the Enterprise was ordered to Romulus where a new praetor, Shinzon, had come to power. Shinzon's self-asserted good intentions, however, were soon found to be false. In reality, Shinzon was discovered to be a clone of Captain Picard and, due to genetic degeneration, he was in need of Picard's blood in order to restore his life. After Shinzon's vessel, the Scimitar, had all but destroyed the Enterprise, Shinzon planned to eliminate the crew with his thalaron radiation weapon before turning it on Earth. Though Picard was able to defeat Shinzon in hand-to-hand combat, Picard was trapped aboard the Scimitar due to damage to the Enterprise transporters. With no other option, Data elected to physically jump into the vacuum of space through a hull breach in the forward section of the Enterprise – and force his way aboard the Scimitar from the outside. Proceeding to the Scimitar bridge, Data utilized a prototype emergency transport unit concealed in his forearm, to return Picard to the Enterprise. With the thalaron radiation weapon seconds away from firing, Data used his phaser to destroy it, which resulted in the complete destruction of the Scimitar – and Data as well.

[Nick]

This is crazy talk. You can't pick and chose who gets the credit. That information isn't out there and you weren't in the front office.

 

Loony Larry with his daily rant.

[notin]

This is crazy talk. You can't pick and chose who gets the credit. That information isn't out there and you weren't in the front office.

 

Exactly.

 

I liked a lot about Cherington, but I don't think it's right to pawn his mistakes off on Lucchino. LL spent decades in MLB front offices and probably had a very good idea of what he was doing, and it smacks of favoritism to simply pawn off every mistake on him as a method of defending Cherington. Cherington did a lot of good he deserves credit for, but he also needs to take his share of blame..

[harmony]

The Red Sox reportedly are in trade talks regarding White Sox first baseman Jose Abreu:

 

[moonslav59]

I onderstaand your point. You have expressed it clearly on numerous occasions. It wasn't as obvious to me that resetting the luxury tax was as big a deal to JH than some here at talksox think it was or want it to be.

 

They said it wasn't a top priority, but I think it was an important one.

I'm thinking DD might have been told he had to reset the tax this year or next year, and he thought it best to do it this year.

[mvp 78]

They said it wasn't a top priority, but I think it was an important one.

I'm thinking DD might have been told he had to reset the tax this year or next year, and he thought it best to do it this year.

 

Considering the length of contracts, it would have been harder to go over last year (and still be worth it), but stay under this year.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox reportedly are in trade talks regarding White Sox first baseman Jose Abreu:

 

 

His luxury tax is only $11.3M, but I'm fearful of what we'd have to give up to get him.

 

[mvp 78]

His luxury tax is only $11.3M, but I'm fearful of what we'd have to give up to get him.

 

 

Less than what it would take to get Stanton probably and he plays a position that actually needs to be filled.

[Jack Flap]

I like Abreu a lot, but I imagine the White Sox will want a nice haul and there are a lot of first basemen out there who will cost only money. We'll see...

[harmony]

Less than what it would take to get Stanton probably and he plays a position that actually needs to be filled.

Jose Abreu, under team control for two years with a projected 2018 salary of $17.9 million, may well have more surplus value than Giancarlo Stanton, who has 10 years and $295 million remaining on his contract with a no-trade clause and a potential opt-out after the 2020 season.

 

In a trade Abreu could cost more in terms of talent.

[harmony]

His luxury tax is only $11.3M, but I'm fearful of what we'd have to give up to get him.

 

The 2018 luxury tax figure for Jose Abreu, who is not under contract, would be his 2018 salary, which is projected at $17.9 million.

 

The AAV calculation applies only to multiyear contracts.

[mvp 78]

Jose Abreu, under team control for two years with a projected 2018 salary of $17.9 million, may well have more surplus value than Giancarlo Stanton, who has 10 years and $295 million remaining on his contract with a no-trade clause and a potential opt-out after the 2020 season.

 

In a trade Abreu could cost more in terms of talent.

 

Stanton will opt out in 3 years. Stanton's asking price has been noted as being high. At least kick the tires, which is what the Sox are rightfully doing. I would be shocked if the talks between the terms were moving along and the Sox said "well, let's just trade MORE assets for Abreu than we would have for Stanton."

[moonslav59]

Less than what it would take to get Stanton probably and he plays a position that actually needs to be filled.

 

I'm thinking the prospect cost will be similar due to the money differential.