The Bullpen thread

[Jasonbay44]

There has been a lot of talk about this teams rotation, but there somehow hasn't been a thread on the bullpen. The Bullpen was supposed to be one of the weaknesses of this team, especially after the Carson Smith and Thornburg injuries, but they've actually been really good. Kimbrel is having a dominant season, Joe Kelly has been elite set up man, Robby Scott has been fantastic, Matt Barnes has mostly been good (despite a few hiccups), and even Hembree has been okay as a middle reliever.. s***, I can remember at least two games where Fernando Abad pitched 2+ innings and got a W in extra innings, he's even been really good. I never thought Blaine Boyer would be a solid contributor, I didn't even know he was still in league, much less in Bostons organization, but he's actually given the team some big innings lately also.

 

Looks like the pen has actually been a strength. I still think we could use at least one more solid arm, as I'm not sure what to expect of Scott in his 1st full MLB season, and Barnes and Hembree tend to be inconsistent and prone to meltdowns. I don't think we need an elite arm, but something similar to last years acquisition of Ziegler to sure up the back end.

[Kimmi]

Carson Smith could be that one more solid arm that you're talking about. It sounds like he's very close to returning.

 

And indeed, the pen has done a mighty fine job.

[Jasonbay44]

Carson Smith could be that one more solid arm that you're talking about. It sounds like he's very close to returning.

 

And indeed, the pen has done a mighty fine job.

 

I just can't convince myself that Smith will be a big time contributor this year. He's coming off a serious injury and we don't know if he'll be the same person. If he could come back, that would be awesome, but I still think we need another depth piece for the pen.

[Kimmi]

I just can't convince myself that Smith will be a big time contributor this year. He's coming off a serious injury and we don't know if he'll be the same person. If he could come back, that would be awesome, but I still think we need another depth piece for the pen.

 

He's a question mark, no doubt. Hopefully he gets back soon enough to give the team a good look before the trade deadline. If he can do the job, then our resources would be better served elsewhere.

[oldtimer]

He's a question mark, no doubt. Hopefully he gets back soon enough to give the team a good look before the trade deadline. If he can do the job, then our resources would be better served elsewhere.

 

Now we know Thornburg is out for the year so we have to hope that Smith can come back and give us some good innings. I agree, returning from an innjury puts a big "if" in expectations but one can hope.

[moonslav59]

I have been very pleasantly surprised by this pen, especially since I was counting on Thornburg to be a major piece and still thought the pen was our weakest pre-season link. Not "weak"

but weakest.

[notin]

I just can't convince myself that Smith will be a big time contributor this year. He's coming off a serious injury and we don't know if he'll be the same person. If he could come back, that would be awesome, but I still think we need another depth piece for the pen.

 

 

Agreed, especially since it's not like Smith has an extensive track record as a successful MLB reliever. ..

[moonslav59]

Agreed, especially since it's not like Smith has an extensive track record as a successful MLB reliever. ..

 

Thornburg, too.

[Jasonbay44]

I have been very pleasantly surprised by this pen, especially since I was counting on Thornburg to be a major piece and still thought the pen was our weakest pre-season link. Not "weak"

but weakest.

Definitely. I didn't think they were "weak" but one of our weakest links for sure, along with 3B.

 

They've definitely performed better than we could've hoped. I'm really liking the way Joe Kelly is pitching, I've been calling for him to be a reliever for a while now, I'm glad it finally happened, he's been lights out. He just picked up his 3rd win and his ERA is down to 1.23..

[SoxHop]

Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, Scott..... Kibrel have been amazing and is in the top two reasons why we are in the position we are in..........

 

I love when it is bullpen time........ it pretty much means the game is shut down........

 

gebus I love having a good pen....... no more late game disasters.............

 

If Pom or whoever gets us to the 6th or for the love of good things the seventh........... they close the s*** down...............

 

ps.... I hope I don't jinx their s***.....

[moonslav59]

Kelly threw smoke tonight.

 

I joked with my friend that he struck a guy out with a 97 mph "change-up".

[Bellhorn04]

I have been very pleasantly surprised by this pen, especially since I was counting on Thornburg to be a major piece and still thought the pen was our weakest pre-season link. Not "weak"

but weakest.

 

This bullpen 'should have' been a problem. Almost all of them have pitched better than expected, some much better.

[Maxbialystock]

This is a really dumb thread. Who cares about a bunch of stiffs who normally don't even sit in the dugout?

 

We need a Benintendi thread or a 3b thread or a JBJ thread. You know, something with real importance.

 

That said, right now and for most of this season the bullpen has been saving our ass.

 

This is the first season in the John Henry era when the Sox have played competitive ball--3d best W-L record in the AL and 5th best in MLB--with for them weak hitting.

[Maxbialystock]

Here's an interesting question. Today is June 17.

 

Which five Sox relievers have higher WAR (wins above replacement) ratings than Porcello, last year's Cy Young winner, and Price, our $210M starter?

 

Answer: Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, Scott, and Abad.

 

I might add that all but Barnes also have lower ERA's than our ace and very possible Cy Young this year, Chris Sale, whose ERA is 2.82, well below all our other starters.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's an interesting question. Today is June 17.

 

Which five Sox relievers have higher WAR (wins above replacement) ratings than Porcello, last year's Cy Young winner, and Price, our $210M starter?

 

Answer: Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, Scott, and Abad.

 

I might add that all but Barnes also have lower ERA's than our ace and very possible Cy Young this year, Chris Sale, whose ERA is 2.82, well below all our other starters.

 

If you look at the Red Sox bWAR rankings right now you'd swear someone was putting you on.

 

Kelly 7th, Pomeranz 10th, Barnes 11th, Robby Scott 12th.

[Kimmi]

This bullpen 'should have' been a problem. Almost all of them have pitched better than expected, some much better.

 

Bullpens are so unpredictable.

[moonslav59]

Here's an interesting question. Today is June 17.

 

Which five Sox relievers have higher WAR (wins above replacement) ratings than Porcello, last year's Cy Young winner, and Price, our $210M starter?

 

Answer: Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, Scott, and Abad.

 

I might add that all but Barnes also have lower ERA's than our ace and very possible Cy Young this year, Chris Sale, whose ERA is 2.82, well below all our other starters.

 

ERAs for RP'ers are tainted by the fact that they come into games with one or two outs sometimes. That greatly improves their chances at not allowing their own runners to score.

[moonslav59]

If you look at the Red Sox bWAR rankings right now you'd swear someone was putting you on.

 

Kelly 7th, Pomeranz 10th, Barnes 11th, Robby Scott 12th.

 

Wow.

 

I'm assuming Kimbrell is first.

[Bellhorn04]

Wow.

 

I'm assuming Kimbrell is first.

 

Kimbrel is 4th (with a 2.0) behind Mookie, Sale and JBJ.

[StephenCurry30]

Relief pitchers always have lower ERA's than starters. even guys like Kershaw usually don't beat out closers in era.

[Kimmi]

Red Sox Notes‏ @SoxNotes 5h5 hours ago

 

Sox relievers have allowed 0 runs in their last 26.0 IP, the club’s longest scoreless streak since April 2004 (32.1 IP) (via @EliasSports).

[Maxbialystock]

ERAs for RP'ers are tainted by the fact that they come into games with one or two outs sometimes. That greatly improves their chances at not allowing their own runners to score.

 

Fine. Try this. Right now the rotation sucks and the bullpen is saving our asses.

 

Or this. We lost three straight to the Guardians in the ALDS last year because Price and Porcello gave the first two games away and Buchholz wasn't much better. But we got to the ALDS in September because the bullpen was great time and time again.

 

I'll tell you why I don't buy that bs about all the advantages the bullpen has. When they come out there, they must deliver from the first pitch. Starters get to make mistakes and especially have bad first innings because we all accept that and hope that in the 2d or 3d inning they will "hit their stride." Sometimes relievers are sent out there with the bases loaded, but starters only encounter that by loading the bases all by themselves. Lots of lefties are sent out to get just one guy out. If you told a starter to do that, he would laugh in your face.

 

Starters get all the money because they have great stuff and the good ones can regularly go 7 and 8 innings--good innings--but they only have to do that every five games or days. I think the hardest thing for a starter--and it is hard--is going thru the lineup 2, 3, and even 4 times. Relievers rarely have to do that.

[Slasher9]

Fine. Try this. Sometimes relievers are sent out there with the bases loaded, but starters only encounter that by loading the bases all by themselves.

 

Max...one thing to consider in this scenario. if the reliever comes into the game in that situation and gives up a bases clearing double, none of those runs count against him. they all go against the starter. so does the reliever really care?

[Bellhorn04]

Max...one thing to consider in this scenario. if the reliever comes into the game in that situation and gives up a bases clearing double, none of those runs count against him. they all go against the starter. so does the reliever really care?

 

There are separate stats for 'inherited runners' allowed to score.

[Kimmi]

DRA - Deserved Run Average - It's the way to go.

 

It takes into account, for both the starter and the reliever, how many inherited runners were allowed to score.

[devildavid]

Yikes! Looks like we jinxed the bullpen by starting this thread. Just kidding!

[Emp9]

DRA - Deserved Run Average - It's the way to go.

 

It takes into account, for both the starter and the reliever, how many inherited runners were allowed to score.

 

Or atleast add 1/2 a run to the Starter (or previous pitcher) ERA and the other 1/2 to the Reliever's ERA who actually surrendered the run. Do this for every run given up.

[OH FOY]

Holds are more important than Saves to me. 1 Reliever comes in with a 99 % with no Runners on base the other in critical situations. With the hold situation you need a Strike thrower, walks or throwing to hitter counts will kill you. Edited June 22, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Jasonbay44]

Or atleast add 1/2 a run to the Starter (or previous pitcher) ERA and the other 1/2 to the Reliever's ERA who actually surrendered the run. Do this for every run given up.

But at the same time, it's not really fair to the bullpen guy if he comes in with the bases loaded and no one out, and induces a GIDP, and a run scores, and he be charged with anything.

[Emp9]

But at the same time, it's not really fair to the bullpen guy if he comes in with the bases loaded and no one out, and induces a GIDP, and a run scores, and he be charged with anything.

 

This is true. I wouldn't charge him anything for that. MLB has ppl to keep track of that though, i would think. If they have people to figure out a non-typical Save (tying run reaches the on-deck circle), they could figure this out.