Farrell

[devildavid]

The more Farrell sticks to the "formula" when it comes to using his players, the more it looks to me as though a cardboard cutout of him propped up in the corner would suffice. Stick to the "formula" and you can even save some money for the owners.

 

I don't see any evidence of a "formula" that Farrell is using.

[cp176]

I don't see any evidence of a "formula" that Farrell is using.

 

Just my little rant about the way it looks to me that he tends do do things. it all looks very scripted to me. Rarely varying from pitch counts, certain pitchers always it seems for certain innings. It all just looks so very predictable. I think that he is constantly trying to do what looks to be safe. It may be the right approach to the game most of the time it just looks to me as though changing things up now and then is very hard for him.

[devildavid]

Just my little rant about the way it looks to me that he tends do do things. it all looks very scripted to me. Rarely varying from pitch counts, certain pitchers always it seems for certain innings. It all just looks so very predictable. I think that he is constantly trying to do what looks to be safe. It may be the right approach to the game most of the time it just looks to me as though changing things up now and then is very hard for him.

 

I'm not seeing that. He has had multiple batting orders, made substitutions, rested players, used various arms out of the bullpen. I really don't see any discernible pattern except what appears to be what he thinks is best at the time.

[a700hitter]

Just my little rant about the way it looks to me that he tends do do things. it all looks very scripted to me. Rarely varying from pitch counts, certain pitchers always it seems for certain innings. It all just looks so very predictable. I think that he is constantly trying to do what looks to be safe. It may be the right approach to the game most of the time it just looks to me as though changing things up now and then is very hard for him.

He isn't much of a thinker. He doesn't tailor his moves to game situations or player abilities. Heck, he never used a closer in the 8th inning until he saw the success that Francona had using Miller when the game was on the line.

[cp176]

He isn't much of a thinker. He doesn't tailor his moves to game situations or player abilities. Heck, he never used a closer in the 8th inning until he saw the success that Francona had using Miller when the game was on the line.

 

That is pretty much how I feel about him. Game situations sometimes call for a little creativity.

[cp176]

I'm not seeing that. He has had multiple batting orders, made substitutions, rested players, used various arms out of the bullpen. I really don't see any discernible pattern except what appears to be what he thinks is best at the time.

 

 

One of the things that I have seen from JF over the years, is that when he decides to give players a rest, it tends to be him resting most of them at the same time. It almost looks as though once you have won two out of three games in a series, resting time occurs on the third day. I also think that a reliance on certain relief pitchers for specific innings gets over worked. I get it with a closer but after that maybe some adjusting would be good. Probably just me but I think I do see a pattern here.

[devildavid]

He isn't much of a thinker. He doesn't tailor his moves to game situations or player abilities. Heck, he never used a closer in the 8th inning until he saw the success that Francona had using Miller when the game was on the line.

 

Francona uses Miller knowing he has an equally good reliever he can follow with. Cody Allen was his closer in 2016, not Miller. And Francona didn't do much of this when he was with the Red Sox.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, I don't agree that there is a formula that Farrell uses. Last year, he really shied away from using Kimbrel in more than one inning. This year, he has no problem doing it. Sometimes he's aggressive in pinch hitting during the 6th inning, other times he just leaves the starters in. I think he manages by feel of the game rather than going off script.

 

The only thing you can consistently call Farrell out on is how horribly his teams run the bases.

[Slasher9]

kelly 7th

barnes 8th

kimbrell 9th

it's the script.

also, why hasn't betts & X-bo been flip-flopped in the lineup yet?

[mvp 78]

Kelly should be the 8th inning guy.

 

7th inning can be a whatever guy is pitching well at the time.

 

I just hope Carson Smith can contribute at some point.

[devildavid]

Yeah, I don't agree that there is a formula that Farrell uses. Last year, he really shied away from using Kimbrel in more than one inning. This year, he has no problem doing it. Sometimes he's aggressive in pinch hitting during the 6th inning, other times he just leaves the starters in. I think he manages by feel of the game rather than going off script.

 

The only thing you can consistently call Farrell out on is how horribly his teams run the bases.

 

Agreed. I do have an issue with the base running philosophy of the team, which I hold Farrell responsible for. They are over aggressive on the bases in general and run into too many outs.

[a700hitter]

Francona uses Miller knowing he has an equally good reliever he can follow with. Cody Allen was his closer in 2016, not Miller. And Francona didn't do much of this when he was with the Red Sox.

Francona also used Allen for more than one inning several times last post season and he flip flopped Allen and Miller at least once that I can recollect. Francona didn't do this with the Red Sox because he had startersthat could go deep into games in the post season, so he didn't need to do it very much. The 2016 Guardians had one reliable starter so he had to improvise.

[a700hitter]

Kelly should be the 8th inning guy.

 

7th inning can be a whatever guy is pitching well at the time.

 

I just hope Carson Smith can contribute at some point.

Didnt Smith have another setback?

[devildavid]

kelly 7th

barnes 8th

kimbrell 9th

it's the script.

also, why hasn't betts & X-bo been flip-flopped in the lineup yet?

 

I only had time to check April and couldn't find one actual occurrence of that scripted relief pitcher pattern. I'll pass the baton to you to find out how many times it actually did happen. Good luck

 

I agree that Bogey should lead off. I think Mookie should hit 3rd or 4th. He is our power bat.

[mvp 78]

Didnt Smith have another setback?

 

Working his way back from Tommy John surgery, Smith had hoped to begin a rehab assignment on Sunday, but he came down with a sore shoulder last week. It doesn't sound like a big setback, but it's unclear when he'll be game-ready. "When we sent Carson back (to Boston), we’re still in that five-day period where we’re going to let things settle down and continue to go through rehab and strengthening," Red Sox manager John Farrell said Monday. Jun 20 - 10:07 AM

[a700hitter]

Working his way back from Tommy John surgery, Smith had hoped to begin a rehab assignment on Sunday, but he came down with a sore shoulder last week. It doesn't sound like a big setback, but it's unclear when he'll be game-ready. "When we sent Carson back (to Boston), we’re still in that five-day period where we’re going to let things settle down and continue to go through rehab and strengthening," Red Sox manager John Farrell said Monday. Jun 20 - 10:07 AM

I am going to lower my expectations of what he will contribute. I remember eagerly anticipating John Smoltz joining our staff and having setback after setback and then he was a complete failure.

[devildavid]

Francona also used Allen for more than one inning several times last post season and he flip flopped Allen and Miller at least once that I can recollect. Francona didn't do this with the Red Sox because he had startersthat could go deep into games in the post season, so he didn't need to do it very much. The 2016 Guardians had one reliable starter so he had to improvise.

 

And Farrell doesn't have the same personnel so he manages accordingly.

[a700hitter]

And Farrell doesn't have the same personnel so he manages accordingly.

He had Kimbrel last year, but never gave it a thought to use him in the 8th inning until he saw Francona's success last year. Managers are great at copycat-ing success being whether it be going to 1 inning dedicated closers, using shifts etc.

[Bellhorn04]

He isn't much of a thinker. He doesn't tailor his moves to game situations or player abilities. Heck, he never used a closer in the 8th inning until he saw the success that Francona had using Miller when the game was on the line.

 

That's not correct. I only looked up 2013, but Koji entered the game in the 8th numerous times late in the season and in the postseason.

[a700hitter]

That's not correct. I only looked up 2013, but Koji entered the game in the 8th numerous times late in the season and in the postseason.

Farrell surprisingly completely outmanaged Matheny in that World Series. I have acknowledged that previously. His use of the pen in that post season was excellent. Maybe Francona learned from him, and Farrell re-learned it from Francona. He certainly forgot how to do it last year as he never did it with Kimbrel. Edited June 22, 2017 by a700hitter

[Slasher9]

I only had time to check April and couldn't find one actual occurrence of that scripted relief pitcher pattern. I'll pass the baton to you to find out how many times it actually did happen. Good luck

 

 

it's the script. the failure of 1 of the first 2 prevents the 3rd from happening. or if we stack on runs in the 8th or 9th. or obviously if we are getting blown out (L).

 

Game 72: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th (spits the bit)

Game 71: Sale + blowout

Game 70: L

Game 69: kelly 7th, Barnes 8th (spits the bit bailed out by scott), kimbrell 9th

Game 68: L

Game 67: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

Game 66: Sale complete game

Game 65: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, tacked on runs blowout win with kimbrell warming in the pen for 9th

Game 64: Kelly unavailable, barnes unavailable, kimbrell 9th

Game 63: Kelly 7th, Scott 8th (sox down by a run - scored in bottom of 8th to tie), Kimbrell 9th, barnes extra innings

Game 62: L

Game 61: Sale, blowout W, Barnes 8th

Game 60: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

Game 59: L

Game 58: L

Game 57: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

 

going to lunch now...will continue this later if you still need "evidence".....

[a700hitter]

it's the script. the failure of 1 of the first 2 prevents the 3rd from happening. or if we stack on runs in the 8th or 9th. or obviously if we are getting blown out (L).

 

Game 72: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th (spits the bit)

Game 71: Sale + blowout

Game 70: L

Game 69: kelly 7th, Barnes 8th (spits the bit bailed out by scott), kimbrell 9th

Game 68: L

Game 67: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

Game 66: Sale complete game

Game 65: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, tacked on runs blowout win with kimbrell warming in the pen for 9th

Game 64: Kelly unavailable, barnes unavailable, kimbrell 9th

Game 63: Kelly 7th, Scott 8th (sox down by a run - scored in bottom of 8th to tie), Kimbrell 9th, barnes extra innings

Game 62: L

Game 61: Sale, blowout W, Barnes 8th

Game 60: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

Game 59: L

Game 58: L

Game 57: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

 

going to lunch now...will continue this later if you still need "evidence".....

It looks like a pattern to me.

[cp176]

kelly 7th

barnes 8th

kimbrell 9th

it's the script.

also, why hasn't betts & X-bo been flip-flopped in the lineup yet?

 

This is pretty much how it looks to me. Sometimes a slight variation but it seems that come hell or high water this is the way it is going to be. I get it with the closer coming in last but designating 7th and 8th inning specialists is too much of a stretch for me. It is the script though and we have to stay on script.

[devildavid]

He had Kimbrel last year, but never gave it a thought to use him in the 8th inning until he saw Francona's success last year. Managers are great at copycat-ing success being whether it be going to 1 inning dedicated closers, using shifts etc.

 

Kimbrel wasn't lights out last season.

 

Many on field managing moves wind up being trendy and copied around most of the league. Farrell may not be an innovator, but it doesn't mean he can't manage effectively.

[illinoisredsox]

He had Kimbrel last year, but never gave it a thought to use him in the 8th inning until he saw Francona's success last year. Managers are great at copycat-ing success being whether it be going to 1 inning dedicated closers, using shifts etc.

 

He had Kimbrel, but he did not have the Kimbrel we have seen this year.

[Bellhorn04]

it's the script. the failure of 1 of the first 2 prevents the 3rd from happening. or if we stack on runs in the 8th or 9th. or obviously if we are getting blown out (L).

 

Game 72: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th (spits the bit)

Game 71: Sale + blowout

Game 70: L

Game 69: kelly 7th, Barnes 8th (spits the bit bailed out by scott), kimbrell 9th

Game 68: L

Game 67: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

Game 66: Sale complete game

Game 65: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, tacked on runs blowout win with kimbrell warming in the pen for 9th

Game 64: Kelly unavailable, barnes unavailable, kimbrell 9th

Game 63: Kelly 7th, Scott 8th (sox down by a run - scored in bottom of 8th to tie), Kimbrell 9th, barnes extra innings

Game 62: L

Game 61: Sale, blowout W, Barnes 8th

Game 60: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

Game 59: L

Game 58: L

Game 57: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

 

going to lunch now...will continue this later if you still need "evidence".....

 

I don't get the point here. Of course there's a pattern. Do other managers do things differently than this?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but just a few days ago everyone was delighted with the performance of our bullpen.

[Slasher9]

I don't get the point here. Of course there's a pattern. Do other managers do things differently than this?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but just a few days ago everyone was delighted with the performance of our bullpen.

 

i never stated there was anything wrong with it. it was simply in response to post 511 & 524.

[Bellhorn04]

So I guess this is the gist of it:

 

If the script is followed and the relievers do their job, the script is good.

If the script is followed and somebody blows their job, the script is bad.

[devildavid]

it's the script. the failure of 1 of the first 2 prevents the 3rd from happening. or if we stack on runs in the 8th or 9th. or obviously if we are getting blown out (L).

 

Game 72: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th (spits the bit)

Game 71: Sale + blowout

Game 70: L

Game 69: kelly 7th, Barnes 8th (spits the bit bailed out by scott), kimbrell 9th

Game 68: L

Game 67: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

Game 66: Sale complete game

Game 65: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, tacked on runs blowout win with kimbrell warming in the pen for 9th

Game 64: Kelly unavailable, barnes unavailable, kimbrell 9th

Game 63: Kelly 7th, Scott 8th (sox down by a run - scored in bottom of 8th to tie), Kimbrell 9th, barnes extra innings

Game 62: L

Game 61: Sale, blowout W, Barnes 8th

Game 60: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

Game 59: L

Game 58: L

Game 57: Kelly 7th, Barnes 8th, Kimbrell 9th

 

going to lunch now...will continue this later if you still need "evidence".....

 

It looks like a pattern to me.

 

How can it be a pattern if it doesn't happen frequently? It only happened 3 times out of the sample you chose. You guys are seeing things that aren't there. Look at every single game for the season, and tell me what percent of the time it has happened and calculate the percentage. It didn't happen at all in April. It happened once in May in a win. So out of 72 games it has happened 4 times. That is not pattern.

 

A more likely explanation is that Farrell, smart manager that he is, has determined after two months who his most effective relievers are and uses them to enhance the chance of winning close games. Not a pattern, but learning from the performances two months into the season. Would you rather have him send out others just to break the pattern that you perceive that really isn't there?

 

Four times out of 72 games is 6%. Not a pattern.

 

One other thing: what is wrong with the "pattern"? The Red Sox have a winning record when the so-called "pattern" occurs.

[devildavid]

So I guess this is the gist of it:

 

If the script is followed and the relievers do their job, the script is good.

If the script is followed and somebody blows their job, the script is bad.

 

Except there really is no script.