Farrell

[moonslav59]

Yeah, dolt rhymed with Holt but wasn't very nice.

 

I apologize.

 

It's not his fault JF put him one or 2 eight times.

 

It wasn't his fault getting hit in the head.

 

I sometimes get cranky on players who are poor fielders.

 

My bad.

[jad]

Fire/desire/ 'piss and vinegar' -- all nice myths, beloved of fans and amateur athletes. And if desire keeps you on the practice field for 8-10 hours a day, that will make you better. But once you get on the field, it's not going to help. You do not hit a golf ball harder, a tennis ball more accurately, or a baseball farther because you were 'fired up'. Even in intensely physical sports (like football), getting fired up will not help if you forget basic technique. Anyone who played or plays sports knows that the most overtly enthusiastic players tend to be those cheering wildly from the bench.

[SoxnCycles]

Maybe those gut feelings are right and not everything in baseball can be quantified statistically.

 

No one has ever said otherwise.

[SoxnCycles]

Good one.

 

I guess maybe I'm asking too much for expecting players to (show they) care.

 

In all seriousness though, I do think when players seem interested it at least gives the impression they are focusing. When you observe lethargy and untold amounts of bone head plays, frustration sinks in. I realize over intense states of mind can be counter-productive, and winning and losing is not tied to how I feel about this team's state of mind.

I'm just saying what I'm feeling.

 

For once, I can't back up my opinions with stats or data. "Stat geeks" can have gut feelings too.

 

Stupid play is an entirely different subject than thinking you are seeing a lack of desire.

Seeing half the team not runnnig out grounders? I don't.

Seeing half the team standing in the batters box with the bat on their shoulders? I don't.

 

If anything, the team is probably guilty of taking things a little too seriously and not just going out and playing.

[moonslav59]

Stupid play is an entirely different subject than thinking you are seeing a lack of desire.

 

Agreed, and that's why I separated them into the two major issues I have with JF: lack of fundamentals and lack of fire.

 

That being said, I do think someone could argue that not paying attention of lacking focus so often could be a sign of not caring, which is a symptom of not having "fire".

 

 

Seeing half the team not runnnig out grounders? I don't.

 

I've seen close to half not do it one an one occasion or more.

 

 

Seeing half the team standing in the batters box with the bat on their shoulders? I don't.

 

Maybe not on their shoulder's, but clearly close to a handful of players are pretty much known for not swinging at first pitches.

 

 

 

If anything, the team is probably guilty of taking things a little too seriously and not just going out and playing.

 

I totally disagree. (Maybe a few players or so might have been trying to hard to a level of causing ineffectiveness at points this year (in my opinion).

[SoxnCycles]

Stupid play is an entirely different subject than thinking you are seeing a lack of desire.

 

Agreed, and that's why I separated them into the two major issues I have with JF: lack of fundamentals and lack of fire.

 

That being said, I do think someone could argue that not paying attention of lacking focus so often could be a sign of not caring, which is a symptom of not having "fire".

 

 

Seeing half the team not runnnig out grounders? I don't.

 

I've seen close to half not do it one an one occasion or more.

 

 

Seeing half the team standing in the batters box with the bat on their shoulders? I don't.

 

Maybe not on their shoulder's, but clearly close to a handful of players are pretty much known for not swinging at first pitches.

 

 

 

If anything, the team is probably guilty of taking things a little too seriously and not just going out and playing.

 

I totally disagree. (Maybe a few players or so might have been trying to hard to a level of causing ineffectiveness at points this year (in my opinion).

 

 

Every player in the majors dogs it down to first at least one a season.

I'm talking about making a habit of it.

 

And adhering to the philosophy of taking a first pitch is not the same as mailing in an at bat.

[moonslav59]

Every player in the majors dogs it down to first at least one a season.

I'm talking about making a habit of it.

 

And adhering to the philosophy of taking a first pitch is not the same as mailing in an at bat.

 

Where did I ever even hint that we "mailed in an AB?"

[SoxnCycles]

Where did I ever even hint that we "mailed in an AB?"

 

I would expect to see that on a team that lacks fire and desire, which was my point.

[cp176]

I really don't think that this team in general lacks a desire to win. They aren't what I see as a traditional fired up bunch so to speak but it looks to be the nature of the beast. There is more than one way to skin a cat (just an expression - no offense to you cat lovers). What I see as boneheaded blunders, i don't think is caused from a lack of caring. It might be just who they are. I would like to think that some of it is correctable and that is probably where coaching has to come in to be a factor. That being said, with respect to being more aggressive on the base paths, i think some it (not much but some) can be attributed to a dramatic change in approach to something that we have never seen in Boston. A bluechip, fired up, adrenaline filled approach to running the bases. i like it but the tough part is understanding when and when not to be aggressive and making sure that every player understands what they can and cannot do. That job falls on the coaching staff. For instance, if someone was to say that they understand and that it is ok if Hanley Ramirez tries to stretch singles into doubles when he shouldn't or when someone runs through a stop sign (which is rarely given) that it is ok because we are trying to be more aggressive, I have a hard time. I think that players need to know what is expected of them and that includes having them understand what their capabilities including their limitations are.

[S5Dewey]

[/b]

 

No one has ever said otherwise.

 

That may or may not be true, but there are some who believe that when something can be quantified statistically that statistical quantification should be the final word. And I disagree.

[devildavid]

Yeah, dolt rhymed with Holt but wasn't very nice.

 

I apologize.

 

It's not his fault JF put him one or 2 eight times.

 

It wasn't his fault getting hit in the head.

 

I sometimes get cranky on players who are poor fielders.

 

My bad.

 

My gut tells me that Holt is not a poor fielder.

[S5Dewey]

I really don't think that this team in general lacks a desire to win. They aren't what I see as a traditional fired up bunch so to speak but it looks to be the nature of the beast. There is more than one way to skin a cat (just an expression - no offense to you cat lovers). What I see as boneheaded blunders, i don't think is caused from a lack of caring. It might be just who they are. I would like to think that some of it is correctable and that is probably where coaching has to come in to be a factor. That being said, with respect to being more aggressive on the base paths, i think some it (not much but some) can be attributed to a dramatic change in approach to something that we have never seen in Boston. A bluechip, fired up, adrenaline filled approach to running the bases. i like it but the tough part is understanding when and when not to be aggressive and making sure that every player understands what they can and cannot do. That job falls on the coaching staff. For instance, if someone was to say that they understand and that it is ok if Hanley Ramirez tries to stretch singles into doubles when he shouldn't or when someone runs through a stop sign (which is rarely given) that it is ok because we are trying to be more aggressive, I have a hard time. I think that players need to know what is expected of them and that includes having them understand what their capabilities including their limitations are.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

[a700hitter]

That may or may not be true, but there are some who believe that when something can be quantified statistically that statistical quantification should be the final word. And I disagree.

And then there are those arguments that if something can't be definitively quantified that it just doesn't exist and is no more real than Bigfoot or the Lochness Monster.

[mvp 78]

And then there are those arguments that if something can't be definitively quantified that it just doesn't exist and is no more real than Bigfoot or the Lochness Monster.

 

I don't get your point. Bigfoot exists, but Loch Ness does not.

[mvp 78]

So maybe clutch exists, but the playoffs are just random?

[S5Dewey]

So maybe clutch exists, but the playoffs are just random?

 

When one looks at the won/lost records of the wild card teams vs. the records of the teams that almost qualified for the WC one would think that being a WC team can be quite random.

 

But clutch does exist.

[Slasher9]

clutch = love = god

[Bellhorn04]

clutch = love = god

 

I had that album when it came out in 1967.

[Spudboy]

I don't get your point. Bigfoot exists, but Loch Ness does not.

 

Neither exists.

 

But the Scituate Sea Monstah did!

[Spudboy]

I had that album when it came out in 1967.

 

? Are you guys talking about the band Love?

 

I have no idea.

[Slasher9]

? Are you guys talking about the band Love?

 

I have no idea.

i dont know what bell is talin bout.

slasher is equating the "unproveable" skill of clutch with the unproveable feeling of love with the unproveable belief in god.

you know, for those that dont believe in clutch but are in love and/or go to church.....

[Spudboy]

i dont know what bell is talin bout.

slasher is equating the "unproveable" skill of clutch with the unproveable feeling of love with the unproveable belief in god.

you know, for those that dont believe in clutch but are in love and/or go to church.....

 

oh.

[devildavid]

i dont know what bell is talin bout.

slasher is equating the "unproveable" skill of clutch with the unproveable feeling of love with the unproveable belief in god.

you know, for those that dont believe in clutch but are in love and/or go to church.....

 

Love is real. Clutch and god are beliefs.

[Maxbialystock]

Fire/desire/ 'piss and vinegar' -- all nice myths, beloved of fans and amateur athletes. And if desire keeps you on the practice field for 8-10 hours a day, that will make you better. But once you get on the field, it's not going to help. You do not hit a golf ball harder, a tennis ball more accurately, or a baseball farther because you were 'fired up'. Even in intensely physical sports (like football), getting fired up will not help if you forget basic technique. Anyone who played or plays sports knows that the most overtly enthusiastic players tend to be those cheering wildly from the bench.

 

well said

[Slasher9]

Love is real. Clutch and god are beliefs.

 

prove love.

[Spudboy]

prove love.

 

I can't prove love but I believe neurologists can show how "love" has certain affects on the brain.

[Bellhorn04]

? Are you guys talking about the band Love?

 

I have no idea.

 

Just joshin'.

[Maxbialystock]

And then there are those arguments that if something can't be definitively quantified that it just doesn't exist and is no more real than Bigfoot or the Lochness Monster.

 

I think we are all comfortable with the notion that bigfoot and lochness monster are fiction. I think most of us agree that the boneheaded plays are real, not imaginary. Where we differ is on how many are truly boneheaded and, after that, how they affect game outcomes.

 

I freely admit I am less critical of even the most boneheaded plays because I just take them as part of the game, which is played by humans with varying capacities to stay focused. And I emphasis focus because I believe those interminable 3.5 hour games with maybe 15 minutes of real action, would test anyone's ability to stay focused (even including coaches, whose entire job is to stay focused and keep baserunners focused).

 

That view, I have to admit, doesn't make sense when looking at JBJ, the guy who has twice lost track of the number of outs or the actual game situation he is a part of (on the basepaths). That's the same guy who should be bored to tears out there in CF while our pitchers go through their little kabuki dances and in some cases pitch endless half innings. But JBJ is nothing if not alert at the crack of the bat, and he also knows what to do with the ball when he gets to it. In the outfield, he stays focused despite spending on average 1.75 hours out there with maybe 3 minutes of real activity.

 

I would also be less than honest if I didn't admit that very knowledgeable people on talksox are truly outraged or offended by the boneheadedness. moonslav has plenty of allies when he says this is not the way the game should be played. He blames Farrell and his coaches,which he is certainly entitled to do.

[mvp 78]

Neither exists.

 

But the Scituate Sea Monstah did!

 

My friend swears he saw a pterodactyl in Middleborough back in the 90's. I believe.

[Spudboy]

My friend swears he saw a pterodactyl in Middleborough back in the 90's. I believe.

 

The Scituate Sea Monstah was as I seem to recall, a Basking Shark.