SOB factor

[cp176]

Maybe you are right. If you are, I will certainly have to re-visit all personal perspectives with respect to any game though. it is possible that baseball has changed and has become just a little too dainty for me. Although I will add that athletes are athletes and without a certain degree of toughness you certainly don't make it to the ml level.

[mvp 78]

Take out slides at 2b and the plate have been largely outlawed. Pitchers get tossed for trying to ownthe inside half of the plate. The only real toughness needed now is to be able to get through the slog of 162 games.

[Kimmi]

i am. I am very angry with them. I don't like that I am but I am. there is something that is bothering me about them and this incident really seems to have personified things for me. i know that I use words that perhaps mean something or maybe even more to me than they do to some. we might not agree on what they actually mean and that is ok - gritty,tough, clutch, aggressive, hard assed whatever. The Pedroia incident really troubles me. I have been a believer in him for a long time. i'm not sure where he is coming from and yes I do think that what he says and feels is very important. this is an extremely talented group of baseball players that I think as a group really lacks something. At the risk of having someone s*** on my coaching career because it was at the high school level, i will quite frankly tell anyone that I far more enjoyed coaching kids who were talented but had an edge. it was my job to humanize them. i was ok with that. it was a lot tougher to win with the proverbial talented good kids who you had to make competitive. i love the Red Sox and will continue to be a fan for life but yes i do absolutely feel that this team lacks something. coaches often call for a gut check - i used to call for a heart check on occasion. This team needs a heart check. Are they really being coached???

I'm sorry if this post is too long or just doesn't work for some but i haven't been this passionate about a Red Sox team in years. We finally have an ace, who quite honestly IMO would have hit Machado right squarely in the ass and this great debate would be over. I want more players like him even if they are not nearly as talented.

 

I am unhappy about Pedroia's comments about this recent incident, but outside of that, I'm not really understanding your anger towards the team. I love the players on this team and I'm happy with their level of 'toughness', or lack thereof, whichever the case may be.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong to feel the way you do, just that I'm not getting it.

[Kimmi]

Take out slides at 2b and the plate have been largely outlawed. Pitchers get tossed for trying to ownthe inside half of the plate. The only real toughness needed now is to be able to get through the slog of 162 games.

 

Play on the field needs to go old school.

[cp176]

I am unhappy about Pedroia's comments about this recent incident, but outside of that, I'm not really understanding your anger towards the team. I love the players on this team and I'm happy with their level of 'toughness', or lack thereof, whichever the case may be.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong to feel the way you do, just that I'm not getting it.

 

That was as clear as i can be. I'm glad I guess that you read what I wrote. We will see how things develop after this incident with respect to Pedroia's ability to lead as a player and Farrell's as a coach.

[SoxHop]

I think our team may not be the brawling type. Heck, most of them are pretty small and other than Hanley and Moreland, the rest look like young kids.

 

What are Betts, Pedey, Panda, Sale, Benintendi going to due in a brawl other than get their butt kicked.

 

But as far as toughness. I would point to example of Betts and Benintendi's catch over the wall.

 

I think they have a different toughness, just not the brawling type.

[Bellhorn04]

Let's trade for Knuckles Odor and be done with it.

[a700hitter]

If we get into a brawl with the Orioles, Pedey will probably bring out a basket of muffins for Machado.

[cp176]

If we get into a brawl with the Orioles, Pedey will probably bring out a basket of muffins for Machado.

 

Oh come on now. You are being a little too harsh. The Red Sox know that they aren't big enough to defend themselves against the other bullies. Group hugs will solve all of their problems. Maybe they could hire a mediator to solve all on field issues. It is a changing world. Any of this old school garbage needs to take a back seat.

[a700hitter]

Oh come on now. You are being a little too harsh. The Red Sox know that they aren't big enough to defend themselves against the other bullies. Group hugs will solve all of their problems. Maybe they could hire a mediator to solve all on field issues. It is a changing world. Any of this old school garbage needs to take a back seat.

I like the idea of having trained on-field mediators and arbitrators at each game ready to spring int action. LOL!!

[Emp9]

If we get into a brawl with the Orioles, Pedey will probably bring out a basket of muffins for Machado.

 

hmm.. what kind of muffins?

[Emp9]

Poppy seed muffins and Machado would fail a drug test.... so it matters!

[a700hitter]

poppy seed muffins and machado would fail a drug test.... So it matters!

lol!

[Maxbialystock]

This whole subject of toughness in baseball is a joke to me. You want tough? Go see the soldiers, men and women, who lost limbs or are simply dealing with PTSD--as are their nearest and dearest--before you talk to me about MLB players being tough. There was a day--especially World War I and World War II (and somewhat in the Korean and Vietnam Wars)--when MLB players actually went to war, but those days are long gone with the all-volunteer (and very capable) armed services we have today.

 

There is a story, I think a true one, about Ted Williams playing in a game right after World War II, during which he served but only as an instructor pilot. It was maybe 1946. The opposing pitcher was a decorated veteran, maybe with a purple heart, who had seen combat. Anyway, Williams hammered one right up the middle and knocked that pitcher down. After getting to first and calling timeout, he joined the group of people standing around the fallen pitcher because he felt terrible about what had happened. But the pitcher just looked up at him and said, "for chrissake, Williams, can't you just pull the ball?"

 

What was it Ernie Banks said? "Let's play two." He understood so well what Lou Gehrig meant when he said he was the "luckiest man on the face of the earth." Why? Because he got to play baseball--most years, 154 games (he was the original iron man)--at the highest level and in great ball parks and was paid to do it.

 

These guys are getting paid a ton of money to play a game many of us simply played for enjoyment (I had one year of Babe Ruth League, 1955, and still remember specific games and plays). They don't need to be tough, just talented.

[cp176]

This whole subject of toughness in baseball is a joke to me. You want tough? Go see the soldiers, men and women, who lost limbs or are simply dealing with PTSD--as are their nearest and dearest--before you talk to me about MLB players being tough. There was a day--especially World War I and World War II (and somewhat in the Korean and Vietnam Wars)--when MLB players actually went to war, but those days are long gone with the all-volunteer (and very capable) armed services we have today.

 

There is a story, I think a true one, about Ted Williams playing in a game right after World War II, during which he served but only as an instructor pilot. It was maybe 1946. The opposing pitcher was a decorated veteran, maybe with a purple heart, who had seen combat. Anyway, Williams hammered one right up the middle and knocked that pitcher down. After getting to first and calling timeout, he joined the group of people standing around the fallen pitcher because he felt terrible about what had happened. But the pitcher just looked up at him and said, "for chrissake, Williams, can't you just pull the ball?"

 

What was it Ernie Banks said? "Let's play two." He understood so well what Lou Gehrig meant when he said he was the "luckiest man on the face of the earth." Why? Because he got to play baseball--most years, 154 games (he was the original iron man)--at the highest level and in great ball parks and was paid to do it.

 

These guys are getting paid a ton of money to play a game many of us simply played for enjoyment (I had one year of Babe Ruth League, 1955, and still remember specific games and plays). They don't need to be tough, just talented.

 

No one I hope would ever argue with you about the toughness (whatever that might mean to you) of those who endure and have endured combat. I truly think that the issue becomes one of what your definition of toughness is. To me a single parent working and raising children getting up in the morning and going to work and just getting through another day represents something a helluva lot tougher to deal with than the majority of pampered paid professional athletes. talent alone absolutely does not make it. It doesn't make it anywhere in any line of work. if you are not mentally tough enough to overcome the adversity that life throws at us all, you ain't making it. Toughness really has very little to do with being big and strong. Winners - real winners - come in all shapes and sizes but one thing they all have in common is that they are tough. If to you that means fighting tough or the ability to physically move small buildings - ok then. It isn't even close to meeting my definition of tough. Professional athletes better have some sort of toughness because without it they are just like the rest of us wannabes.

[cp176]

Poppy seed muffins and Machado would fail a drug test.... so it matters!

 

 

10 game suspension for you! encouraging bad behavior

[S5Dewey]

No one I hope would ever argue with you about the toughness (whatever that might mean to you) of those who endure and have endured combat. I truly think that the issue becomes one of what your definition of toughness is. To me a single parent working and raising children getting up in the morning and going to work and just getting through another day represents something a helluva lot tougher to deal with than the majority of pampered paid professional athletes. talent alone absolutely does not make it. It doesn't make it anywhere in any line of work. if you are not mentally tough enough to overcome the adversity that life throws at us all, you ain't making it. Toughness really has very little to do with being big and strong. Winners - real winners - come in all shapes and sizes but one thing they all have in common is that they are tough. If to you that means fighting tough or the ability to physically move small buildings - ok then. It isn't even close to meeting my definition of tough. Professional athletes better have some sort of toughness because without it they are just like the rest of us wannabes.

 

I guess I'm on a roll with the 'perspective' thing because I just posted something on the same topic in another thread, but anyway...

 

Toughness is all about perspective and it comes in many sizes and shapes. Professional baseball players have to be tough both mentally and physically. Mentally because they face adversity on the field every day and physically because it's a long season and it's hard on the body.

 

OTOH, police and firemen deal with things every day that most of us have no interest (or maybe even the toughness) to deal with on a regular basis. I would think that a person would have to be tough to deal with death and loss of everything one has worked for, not to mention being mentally and physically tough enough to deal with hardened criminals with no sense of right or wrong. And that doesn't even begin to deal with the toughness of those people and their families knowing that every morning when they walk out the door that they may not come back again.

 

Of course there's the mental and physical toughness of those who have fought - and continue to fight - in conflicts where they also deal with death, and disfigurement, sometimes of their close friends. These people are both mentally and physically tough.

 

And then there are those whom cp mentioned above, some of whom live their quiet lives dealing with the pressure of making ends meet and keeping their families warm and well fed. That takes yet a different kind of toughness.

 

While I wouldn't diminish the toughness necessary to play sports professionally their 'toughness" pales when compared to what other people have going on in their lives. As Ryan Dempster said after he retired, "I've been treated like a king for all of my professional life. Now I have to learn now to live like a real person". (Of course, with - I hope - millions of dollars in the bank and doing his commentary gig occasionally he doesn't have to live like "a real person", but at least he has perspective).

Edited April 26, 2017 by S5Dewey

[cp176]

I guess I'm on a roll with the 'perspective' thing because I just posted something on the same topic in another thread, but anyway...

 

Toughness is all about perspective and it comes in many sizes and shapes. Professional baseball players have to be tough both mentally and physically. Mentally because they face adversity on the field every day and physically because it's a long season and it's hard on the body.

 

OTOH, police and firemen deal with things every day that most of us have no interest (or maybe even the toughness) to deal with on a regular basis. I would think that a person would have to be tough to deal with death and loss of everything one has worked for, not to mention being mentally and physically tough enough to deal with hardened criminals with no sense of right or wrong. And that doesn't even begin to deal with the toughness of those people and their families knowing that every morning when they walk out the door that they may not come back again.

 

Of course there's the mental and physical toughness of those who have fought - and continue to fight - in conflicts where they also deal with death, and disfigurement, sometimes of their close friends. These people are both mentally and physically tough.

 

And then there are those whom cp mentioned above, some of whom live their quiet lives dealing with the pressure of making ends meet and keeping their families warm and well fed. That takes yet a different kind of toughness.

 

While I wouldn't diminish the toughness necessary to play sports professionally their 'toughness" pales when compared to what other people have going on in their lives. As Ryan Dempster said after he retired, "I've been treated like a king for all of my professional life. Now I have to learn now to live like a real person". (Of course, with - I hope - millions of dollars in the bank and doing his commentary gig occasionally he doesn't have to live like "a real person", but at least he has perspective).

 

Good thought went into this. This is pretty much why my heroes were not nor will they ever be professional athletes unless what they do outside of the game merits some form of thank you. It is also why I really have no desire to listen to a hollywood actor voice their opinion about things that matter in the real world. Nice post.

[Bellhorn04]

If a professional athlete gives it 100% you can't really knock them for the money they make. It's not their fault they live in a capitalist society where athletes and entertainers can get paid like this.

[mvp 78]

If a professional athlete gives it 100% you can't really knock them for the money they make. It's not their fault they live in a capitalist society where athletes and entertainers can get paid like this.

 

Yup, this is what late stage capitalism looks like.

[cp176]

If a professional athlete gives it 100% you can't really knock them for the money they make. It's not their fault they live in a capitalist society where athletes and entertainers can get paid like this.

 

i don't think that anyone is knocking them here Bell. God bless them.

[Emp9]

Yup, this is what late stage capitalism looks like.

 

But is there a cure, doctor?

[Maxbialystock]

If a professional athlete gives it 100% you can't really knock them for the money they make. It's not their fault they live in a capitalist society where athletes and entertainers can get paid like this.

 

Meh. I don't begrudge them the money because I agree they are really entertainers at the core--and some are more professional than others.

[devildavid]

Forget toughness, I'm just looking for better hitting with runners in scoring position. Lack of SOB isn't the problem lately. It's too many LOB.

 

But it's much too soon to worry about such things. The hitting talent is there and the scoring will come.

[mvp 78]

Forget toughness, I'm just looking for better hitting with runners in scoring position. Lack of SOB isn't the problem lately. It's too many LOB.

 

But it's much too soon to worry about such things. The hitting talent is there and the scoring will come.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/team-left-on-base-per-game

 

They are 29th out of 30. That's also a function of getting a lot of runners on.

[S5Dewey]

https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/team-left-on-base-per-game

 

They are 29th out of 30. That's also a function of getting a lot of runners on.

 

Yep. This team is getting a lot of runners on base - and then leaving them there. Since we all know that all hitting is random these guys are getting on base at random and are randomly being left there. We'l be ok. We just need for our luck to improve.

[Bellhorn04]

Yep. This team is getting a lot of runners on base - and then leaving them there. Since we all know that all hitting is random these guys are getting on base at random and are randomly being left there. We'l be ok. We just need for our luck to improve.

 

I detect a note of sarcasm.

[Slasher9]

Yep. This team is getting a lot of runners on base - and then leaving them there. Since we all know that all hitting is random these guys are getting on base at random and are randomly being left there. We'l be ok. We just need for our luck to improve.

 

hahaha. +2 points for sure.

post of the day right there folks....

[devildavid]

Yep. This team is getting a lot of runners on base - and then leaving them there. Since we all know that all hitting is random these guys are getting on base at random and are randomly being left there. We'l be ok. We just need for our luck to improve.

 

You are correct. In the long run, getting on base more often leads to more scoring.

[mvp 78]

You are correct. In the long run, getting on base more often leads to more scoring.

 

Currently 24th in runs scored.