SOB factor

[cp176]

I've wondered about this for awhile now. Is this team tough enough to do what it says they should do "on paper" at least? I think that Pedroia gets it as does Sale I'm pretty sure. It is a tough game and more often then not you need some tough guys to help you win.

[a700hitter]

Oh Boy! You have raised the dreaded "grit" "dirtdog" issue. The statheads with soft hands and big butts don't acknowledge those factors. Edited April 22, 2017 by a700hitter

[S5Dewey]

I hope you're not asking if some players can recognize that the team is in trouble at the moment and elevate their game to get them out of it. That would be referred to as being clutch and you can count on one hand the number of people here who think that can happen. The best we can hope for is a convergence of their randomness so this team can start scoring a few runs.

[Bellhorn04]

LOL

 

If you really wanted to tackle this, I suppose you could start by looking at recent World Series champs and identifying who the 'tough guys' were and what they did to show their toughness...

 

Best of luck.

[S5Dewey]

LOL

 

If you really wanted to tackle this, I suppose you could start by looking at recent World Series champs and identifying who the 'tough guys' were and what they did to show their toughness...

 

Best of luck.

 

..but that would be such a small sample size as to be insignificant.

[cp176]

LOL

 

If you really wanted to tackle this, I suppose you could start by looking at recent World Series champs and identifying who the 'tough guys' were and what they did to show their toughness...

 

Best of luck.

 

I was only really interested in tackling things when I played. lol - Perhaps I didn't realize what I was getting into. I'll take it back.

[a700hitter]

..but that would be such a small sample size as to be insignificant.

Yes, and I think CP was referring to toughness over the course of the season, not a post season series.

[cp176]

Oh Boy! You have raised the dreaded "grit" "dirtdog" issue. The statheads with soft hands and big butts don't acknowledge those factors.

 

 

Maybe i should have started a thread called - what would Pedroia think?

[S5Dewey]

Maybe i should have started a thread called - what would Pedroia think?

 

Anyone who watched the post-game show last night knows what Pedroia thinks about the rule regarding overrunning the base at 2nd.

 

"I don't need any f***ing rule to tell me.....". LOL

[cp176]

Yes, and I think CP was referring to toughness over the course of the season, not a post season series.

 

correcto - just toughness in general.

[S5Dewey]

correcto - just toughness in general.

 

You know you're dealing with something (else) here that's not statistically provable, don't you?

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and I think CP was referring to toughness over the course of the season, not a post season series.

 

To win the World Series, of course, you have to make the playoffs and then win 3 playoff series...that total success over the long haul is what I meant.

[Bellhorn04]

Anyone who watched the post-game show last night knows what Pedroia thinks about the rule regarding overrunning the base at 2nd.

 

"I don't need any f***ing rule to tell me.....". LOL

 

Well, you're right, Pedroia is as tough as they come. Is one tough guy enough though?

[cp176]

Well, you're right, Pedroia is as tough as they come. Is one tough guy enough though?

 

No is the answer. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that Sale fits my toughness criteria too though.

[jad]

So how come "dirt dogs" are always white folks?

[Bellhorn04]

So how come "dirt dogs" are always white folks?

 

I don't use that expression myself. But David Ortiz is the name most often cited as Mr. Clutch of the championship teams.

[Kimmi]

Here's what some really cool chick had to say about Pedroia's grit and the human element two years ago on this very forum:

 

As I've posted before, I do strongly believe that there are human elements to the game that can't be quantified. I believe there is such a thing as "grit". IMO, a perfect example is Pedroia. How many critics have doubted him throughout his entire career because of his size? I believe that part of what makes him as successful as he is is his grit, or confidence, or determination, whatever you want to call it.

 

Do I have stats to prove that? No. OTOH, has anyone shown me any stats to disprove that? No. So this is my opinion based on just my belief that "grit" does exist. If someone told me that grit has nothing to do with Pedroia's success, I would disagree, but I would not be able to say that they are wrong on that topic.

 

Another area where the human element comes into play is with the players' personal lives. If a player had a really sick child, for instance, would that affect his performance? I believe so. It's difficult for anyone to perform his job at the top level when there are personal issues that you are dealing with. Again, I have no stats to back that up, but I also have no stats to disprove that.

 

If someone showed me some stats to disprove either my opinion on this or my belief in "grit", then I would have to seriously rethink my opinions.

 

 

So, all of you taking shots at the stat geeks really need to come up with a better defense.

 

And FTR, my hands may be soft, but my butt is not big.

[notin]

Oh Boy! You have raised the dreaded "grit" "dirtdog" issue. The statheads with soft hands and big butts don't acknowledge those factors.

 

Right. Because players who play hard only do so at key times. Probably why no one ever sees Pedroia dive for a two out ground ball with no one on base in May. Oh wait.

 

Or maybe the anti-stat crowd is a bunch of former high school players who think thst because they played at this "elite" level, their experiences there qualify them to speak as the equivalent of major leaguers.

[Kimmi]

Anyone who watched the post-game show last night knows what Pedroia thinks about the rule regarding overrunning the base at 2nd.

 

"I don't need any f***ing rule to tell me.....". LOL

 

I love Pedroia's response to the whole incident.

[a700hitter]

Right. Because players who play hard only do so at key times. Probably why no one ever sees Pedroia dive for a two out ground ball with no one on base in May. Oh wait.

 

Or maybe the anti-stat crowd is a bunch of former high school players who think thst because they played at this "elite" level, their experiences there qualify them to speak as the equivalent of major leaguers.

That doesn't even remotely respond to my post or the "Grit" or "Dirt Dog" factor. I am not even sure what point you are making.

[a700hitter]

Here's what some really cool chick had to say about Pedroia's grit and the human element two years ago on this very forum:

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, all of you taking shots at the stat geeks really need to come up with a better defense.

 

And FTR, my hands may be soft, but my butt is not big.

It is not all about you, Kimmi.

[a700hitter]

So how come "dirt dogs" are always white folks?

Do you have a stat for that?

[Kimmi]

It is not all about you, Kimmi.

 

If it's about stat geeks, it's about me.

[a700hitter]

If it's about stat geeks, it's about me.

A bit narcissistic.

[jad]

Do you have a stat for that?

 

Ha ha. Nope. I've just never heard a black or Hispanic player called that. Or described as showing "grit." They are, instead, "athletic."

[a700hitter]

Ha ha. Nope. I've just never heard a black or Hispanic player called that. Or described as showing "grit." They are, instead, "athletic."

No one ever called Luis Tiant athletic.

[notin]

That doesn't even remotely respond to my post or the "Grit" or "Dirt Dog" factor. I am not even sure what point you are making.

 

 

You did have another sentence in your post. Something about statheads and their soft hands and big butts.

 

Very poorly deflected....

[Bellhorn04]

Big butts are not necessarily a bad thing, BTW.

[notin]

Big butts are not necessarily a bad thing, BTW.

 

So.... you cannot lie about it?

[jad]

No one ever called Luis Tiant athletic.

 

Nor did they call him a dirt dog. He was ... 'colorful'.