2017 Rotation

[moonslav59]

Abe Alvarez rocked a nice crooked hat, but that's about it.

 

Bowden was just overhyped and never did anything.

 

Kelly was sent away long before he was a blip on the MLB radar.

 

They all disappointed us (or the teams we traded them to), but they do belong in a separate class from Buch..

[notin]

3.1 / 5 / 13.50

4.0 / 2 / 4.50

 

your right. clay juis better when it counts most.

 

Yes a one post-season gsme sample size should be adequate. .

[notin]

and Prices signing has been equally disappointing and frustrating.

hence price = clay

 

First of all, Price had a very good year last year. Don't kid yourself. Easily

 

I might have been the biggest Buchholz supporter at BDC, but even I know Clay's career years don't equal Price's "bad: ones..

[Kimmi]

And as I pointed out, the latter of those 2 very good seasons was 2011. Five seasons have passed since then. I don't expect him to turn back the clock 5 years.

 

I didn't say that he would turn the clock back 5 years. I said that league average is a reasonable expectation, about 2-2.5 WAR. I personally think he can be a a little better than that, but it's hard to know what to expect.

[Kimmi]

In 2014, Pablo posted a .739 OPS. That seems like a fair expectation for 2017.

 

Agreed. As you posted earlier, he had always been average to slightly above average defensively, until he fell off a cliff in 2015. If he is in as good shape as we've been hearing about, he should be solid defender too.

[Kimmi]

First of all, Price had a very good year last year. Don't kid yourself. Easily

 

I might have been the biggest Buchholz supporter at BDC, but even I know Clay's career years don't equal Price's "bad: ones..

 

Price did have a very good year last year, but perception is everything. He was signed to be our ace, and on the whole, he did not live up to that billing. It seems like there were too many games that we needed him to come up big, but he was 'meh'. He disappointed me in too many games.

[cp176]

Abe Alvarez rocked a nice crooked hat, but that's about it.

 

Bowden was just overhyped and never did anything.

 

Kelly was sent away long before he was a blip on the MLB radar.

 

How in the hell did Moret even get mentioned on any same page as these guys? Moret didn't last long for specific reasons but while he was here, he showed All-Star quality.

[a700hitter]

I didn't say that he would turn the clock back 5 years. I said that league average is a reasonable expectation, about 2-2.5 WAR. I personally think he can be a a little better than that, but it's hard to know what to expect.

I didn't say that you said that, but you did reference that he had 2 good years. I said that I didn't expect him to turn back the clock 5 years. Everything isn't a debate, Kimmi. Sometimes it is just conversation.

[Spudboy]

I didn't say that he would turn the clock back 5 years. I said that league average is a reasonable expectation, about 2-2.5 WAR. I personally think he can be a a little better than that, but it's hard to know what to expect.

 

He has had 3 years of offensive decline followed by 2 years of non-performance while doubling his pay.

 

Good gig being a fat f*** if you can get it.

[a700hitter]

He has had 3 years of offensive decline followed by 2 years of non-performance while doubling his pay.

 

Good gig being a fat f*** if you can get it.

There should be a clubhouse pool on how much weight that this tub of goo gains during the season. He ate so much after signing his free agent contract that he injured his shoulder.

[Bellhorn04]

Hey, how did Pablo end up in the 2017 Rotation thread?

[a700hitter]

Hey, how did Pablo end up in the 2017 Rotation thread?

What a stupid question.

[moonslav59]

Price did have a very good year last year, but perception is everything. He was signed to be our ace, and on the whole, he did not live up to that billing. It seems like there were too many games that we needed him to come up big, but he was 'meh'. He disappointed me in too many games.

 

Great point, and top of it all, he started out super slowly and ended with a dud playoff game.

 

For a good 20 games in between he was pretty close to what most of us expected. Now, give us that for 30 David!

[moonslav59]

How in the hell did Moret even get mentioned on any same page as these guys? Moret didn't last long for specific reasons but while he was here, he showed All-Star quality.

 

My bad. He doesn't really fit the Buch jello mold of disappointment.

 

He did play parts of 5 seasons with us and 3 more after he left.

[notin]

Great point, and top of it all, he started out super slowly and ended with a dud playoff game.

 

For a good 20 games in between he was pretty close to what most of us exp. ..ected. Now, give us that for 30 David!

 

The playoff dud game wasn't even all bad. He came out in the first inning and started by making the Guardians look bad. That one pitch to Chisenhall and a quick hook made the outing look much worse...

[moonslav59]

The playoff dud game wasn't even all bad. He came out in the first inning and started by making the Guardians look bad. That one pitch to Chisenhall and a quick hook made the outing look much worse...

 

Good point, but the perception left was a bad one.

 

I don't think his season was as bad it it appeared, but I'm hopeful he does better this year.

[User Name]

Price could throw 250 IP of sub 3 ERA, 300 K ball and not give up a single run during a postseason in which the Sox win the WS and slasher would still whine about him. It's his thing.

[Bellhorn04]

What a stupid question.

 

I was trying to be funny, but I was having a bad night at the keyboard.

[Bellhorn04]

Price could throw 250 IP of sub 3 ERA, 300 K ball and not give up a single run during a postseason in which the Sox win the WS and slasher would still whine about him. It's his thing.

 

Price Slasher!

 

Hi User Name, good to see you.

[Slasher9]

First of all, Price had a very good year last year. Don't kid yourself. Easily

 

I might have been the biggest Buchholz supporter at BDC, but even I know Clay's career years don't equal Price's "bad: ones..

 

i respectfully disagree notin.

i dont consider a 4 ERA a "very good year" for a guy on the first year of a 7 X $31MM contract. and then follows that meh regular season with an absolute pitiful postseason start. but that would be a very good year for a guy on a 1 year / 13.5MM contract.

i guess if we ignore 2010 then your last sentence may have credence.

[Slasher9]

Yes a one post-season gsme sample size should be adequate. .

 

i'll be happy to bring up all of prices post season starts. but really i only care about what he did for my team last year in the most important start of the season.

[Slasher9]

Hey, how did Pablo end up in the 2017 Rotation thread?

i was scairt to start a new thread. because: whiny TS bitches about starting new threads.

[Slasher9]

The playoff dud game wasn't even all bad. He came out in the first inning and started by making the Guardians look bad. That one pitch to Chisenhall and a quick hook made the outing look much worse...

 

come on notin. he gave up FIVE earned runs in 3 innings. how many runs would you like to spot a team in the playoffs???

[Slasher9]

Price could throw 250 IP of sub 3 ERA, 300 K ball and not give up a single run during a postseason in which the Sox win the WS and slasher would still whine about him. It's his thing.

 

wrong. if he did that i would say that is what we signed him for. it's pretty easy to look up my posts giving price credit after his great starts mid season last year. of course those where the starts with minimal pressure on him in the dog days of summer. but if he pitches like he should - slasher gives him credit. if he pitches like clay - slasher gives him credit. its pretty simple.

[Slasher9]

Price Slasher!

 

 

lol HFX. by the time this 7 year contract is done, i may very well change my screen name to that....... sigh.....

[moonslav59]

come on notin. he gave up FIVE earned runs in 3 innings.

 

And, that's what makes him an absolute failure?

[notin]

Good point, but the perception left was a bad one.

 

I don't think his season was as bad it it appeared, but I'm hopeful he does better this year.

 

Price was ine of the 10 best pitchers in the AL. If his post-season troubles are attributable to anything, it's probably that he throws over 200 IP every year and is more worn out come October. ...

[notin]

come on notin. he gave up FIVE earned runs in 3 innings. how many runs would you like to spot a team in the playoffs???

 

But in that big second inning, the only really hard hit ball was that home run by Chisenhall that would have been a loud foul in 29 other ballparks. ...

[moonslav59]

Price was line of the 10 best pitchers in the AL.

 

Yeah, 7th in WAR (in the AL) and 8th in FFIP (see below).

 

 

If his post-season troubles are attributable to anything, it's probably that he throws over 200 IP every year and is more worn out come October. ...

 

I'm not judging him or anyone else on small sample sizes. I was just saying his perception took a big hit over those measly 3 IP vs CLE.

 

His very slow start out of the gate really hurt his final numbers, but the numbers (other than WAR and FIP metrics) showed a pretty significant downturn last year.

 

15th in the AL in ERA- at 90.

12th in WHIP at 1.20

 

ERA-

2015: 60

2016: 90

 

WHIP

2015: 1.08

2016: 1.20

 

WAR

2015: 6.4

2016: 4.5

 

FIP

2015: 2.78

2016: 3.60

 

This all contributed to the feeling that he missed expectations by a considerable amount BEFORE that one 3 inning playoff appearance.

 

I'm optimistic. He came on strong after those fist 10 starts of 2016. I don't put much value or devalue on any 3 IP performance, and after 230 IP last season, one could say it might have been fatigue related and not some choke complex.

 

It would be nice to try and reduce his IP this year, but with a pen like ours, many posters are looking to get more IP out of our starters- not less (thanks to Sale replacing Buch & Co.

[Slasher9]

come on notin. he gave up FIVE earned runs in 3 innings.

 

And, that's what makes him an absolute failure?

 

no. thats what make me compare him to Clay. and that's what makes me disappointed and discouraged by the 7 year x $31MM signing....