2017 Rotation

[notin]

Sometimes you need to get past the stats when assessing value. Ryan Dempster is an ideal example of that. When it comes to stats, I like to look at game logs to see how often a pitcher kept his team in the game.

 

David Price took a 3-0 shutout into the 7th against KC in game 2 of the ALCS a few years ago. He was pretty gassed, but his manager left him in and he gave up 5 runs in the 7th. The "E.R.A." says he was terrible, but it wasn't quite the case.

 

He really didn't pitch terrible lastv year either. He cruised through the first inning, have up a couple cheap hits (and one decently hit line drive by Guyer), and then Chisenhsll hit a line drive that wrapped around the foul pole just high enough. In the 3 plus innings he pitched, the Guardians only hit the ball well three times. But they had two infield hits and got enough men on base (Price did help them with some walks - he certainly wasn't great) to really do some damage....

[Bellhorn04]

Sometimes you need to get past the stats when assessing value. Ryan Dempster is an ideal example of that. When it comes to stats, I like to look at game logs to see how often a pitcher kept his team in the game.

 

David Price took a 3-0 shutout into the 7th against KC in game 2 of the ALCS a few years ago. He was pretty gassed, but his manager left him in and he gave up 5 runs in the 7th. The "E.R.A." says he was terrible, but it wasn't quite the case.

 

Price wasn't terrible in that game but you can't really fault Gibbons for leaving him in.

 

Price was at 66 pitches through 6 innings.

 

In the 7th he gave up:

 

Single

Single

Single

Groundout

Single

Strikeout

Double (on the 8th pitch of the at-bat)

 

He was at 88 pitches before the double and he finished at 96 pitches. Certainly Gibbons could have removed him earlier but it wasn't a clearcut decision either way.

[Slasher9]

the clearcut decision is to not have David Price start a postseason game. he wilts.

i posted he should be relegated to the Pen prior to 2016 postseason.....

[Bellhorn04]

the clearcut decision is to not have David Price start a postseason game. he wilts.

i posted he should be relegated to the Pen prior to 2016 postseason.....

 

Or you could start him with a very short leash.

[moonslav59]

"Clearcut?"

 

LMAO!

 

It's not even close to beginning to even think about the possibility of even considering a remote possibility of a tiny chance of Price not starting in the playoffs.

[Slasher9]

"Clearcut?"

 

LMAO!

 

It's not even close to beginning to even think about the possibility of even considering a remote possibility of a tiny chance of Price not starting in the playoffs.

 

for me it was. he proved me right once again. go figure.

[Bellhorn04]

the clearcut decision is to not have David Price start a postseason game. he wilts.

i posted he should be relegated to the Pen prior to 2016 postseason.....

 

Porcello has been a postseason bust too. Put 'em both there.

[moonslav59]

Porcello has been a postseason bust too. Put 'em both there.

 

JBJ is 1 for 10 in the playoffs. I guess he should be benched as well!

 

Pedey's almost 100 points lower in playoff OPS than REG season OPS. Should he be benched too?

 

Buch has a 1.500 WHIP in the playoffs, so maybe we should have put our whole rotation in the pen last fall.

[Slasher9]

JBJ is 1 for 10 in the playoffs. I guess he should be benched as well!

 

Pedey's almost 100 points lower in playoff OPS than REG season OPS. Should he be benched too?

 

Buch has a 1.500 WHIP in the playoffs, so maybe we should have put our whole rotation in the pen last fall.

 

hitting usually suffers in the postseason. because you are supposed to be facing Aces. and managers manage the management of managing the BP better. ie you cannot feast on subpar middle relief pitching in the postseason.

[Slasher9]

Porcello has been a postseason bust too. Put 'em both there.

 

i'm willing to give big D Rick another shot at starting a postseason game.

his postseason era is only up 35% compared to his regular season numbers so i dont picture him in the clubhouse like a scared little bunny rabbit before a playoff start....now when that number balloons up to 72% over 7 years of sample size then i will worry.

[Dojji]

That applies to both sides -- the starting pitching can't feast on cellar dweller lineups either. That's why guys like Curt Schilling who managed to be at a consistently high level in the playoffs are so impressive.

 

That's not, however, a very good reason to expect every starting pitcher to be Curt Schilling. Or Madison Bumgarner for that matter. There's a reason those guys only come along a couple times in a generation.

[Bellhorn04]

JBJ is 1 for 10 in the playoffs. I guess he should be benched as well!

 

Pedey's almost 100 points lower in playoff OPS than REG season OPS. Should he be benched too?

 

Buch has a 1.500 WHIP in the playoffs, so maybe we should have put our whole rotation in the pen last fall.

 

I was just joking around with Slasher, of course.

[Slasher9]

That's not, however, a very good reason to expect every starting pitcher to be Curt Schilling. Or Madison Bumgarner for that matter. There's a reason those guys only come along a couple times in a generation.

 

i dont expect every starting pitcher to be CS or MB. i also dont expect a pitcher on a $31MM x 7 Ace contract to pitch like a $13.5MM option. theres a reason those 1 year meh $10-15MM per guys are a dime a dozen.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Price wasn't terrible in that game but you can't really fault Gibbons for leaving him in.

 

Price was at 66 pitches through 6 innings.

 

In the 7th he gave up:

 

Single

Single

Single

Groundout

Single

Strikeout

Double (on the 8th pitch of the at-bat)

 

He was at 88 pitches before the double and he finished at 96 pitches. Certainly Gibbons could have removed him earlier but it wasn't a clearcut decision either way.

 

My point was that he didn't pitch to what his e.r.a. indicated. Pitch counts in the playoffs are not as important. Every situation is different. 88 pitches in a playoff game can feel like "188," depending on the mental & physical stress of those pitches.

 

I wasn't saying Gibbons shouldn't have put him out there for the 7th, there's no question he should've, but I remember thinking he should be pulled after 3 straight hits. He looked gassed at that point. That's for debate I guess.

 

Price hasn't pitched nearly as bad as some people like to believe, and I would trot him out there again this October if they make the playoffs without blinking.

 

I''m not a Price fan, either. I didn't like the signing, but I understood "why" they did it. I pray that he opts out, but my guess is that the chances are less than 5%, unless the city becomes unbearable for him.

[moonslav59]

I was just joking around with Slasher, of course.

 

Yes, I know, and I was adding to the silliness of the whole idea of benching Price.

[moonslav59]

Price wasn't terrible in that game but you can't really fault Gibbons for leaving him in.

 

Price was at 66 pitches through 6 innings.

 

In the 7th he gave up:

 

Single

Single

Single

Groundout

Single

Strikeout

Double (on the 8th pitch of the at-bat)

 

He was at 88 pitches before the double and he finished at 96 pitches. Certainly Gibbons could have removed him earlier but it wasn't a clearcut decision either way.

 

Yeah, and I believe Price had struck out the side in the 6th.

 

Looking at Price's playoff WHIP compared to his career regular season WHIP, he basically has let up 1 more walk or hit per 9 innings, although his HR/9 goes from 0.9 to 1.6 (or 2 HRs per 2 games to 3 HRs per 2 games).

[notin]

hitting usually suffers in the postseason. because you are supposed to be facing Aces. and managers manage the management of managing the BP better. ie you cannot feast on subpar middle relief pitching in the postseason.

 

Aces? We faced Josh Tomlin and Trevor Bauer (who started the season in the bullpen) in two out of our three playoff games.

 

 

The Guardians used some guy named Ryan Merritt in the clincher against Toronto. Outside of Kluber, who were all these "aces"?

[moonslav59]

Aces? We faced Josh Tomlin and Trevor Bauer (who started the season in the bullpen) in two out of our three playoff games.

 

 

The Guardians used some guy named Ryan Merritt in the clincher against Toronto. Outside of Kluber, who were all these "aces"?

 

Absolutely no Red Sox fans would have traded playoff rosters with the Guardians before that series, especially the starting pitcher set-up, so I find criticizing who we ended up putting out there rings sort of hollow.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Yeah, and I believe Price had struck out the side in the 6th.

 

Looking at Price's playoff WHIP compared to his career regular season WHIP, he basically has let up 1 more walk or hit per 9 innings, although his HR/9 goes from 0.9 to 1.6 (or 2 HRs per 2 games to 3 HRs per 2 games).

 

He did strike out the side in the 6th, but 4 of the first 5 hitters in the 7th all got line-drive hits (Zobrist had a little air under his). These weren't seeing eye ground balls. Moustakas knocked him out of the game with a line drive double. Sanchez came in and gave up a hit and another run that was on Price obviously.

 

Regardless of pitch count, I remember wondering why Gibbons didn't pull him after the 3rd hit. He looked like he was done. Tulo made a nice play to get the first out as well.

[moonslav59]

He did strike out the side in the 6th, but 4 of the first 5 hitters in the 7th all got line-drive hits (Zobrist had a little air under his). These weren't seeing eye ground balls. Moustakas knocked him out of the game with a line drive double. Sanchez came in and gave up a hit and another run that was on Price obviously.

 

Regardless of pitch count, I remember wondering why Gibbons didn't pull him after the 3rd hit. He looked like he was done. Tulo made a nice play to get the first out as well.

 

I think the last hit (and rbi) was a grounder, but yeah, he certainly could have been taken out earlier, and maybe his PO ERA would be lower now.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I think the last hit (and rbi) was a grounder, but yeah, he certainly could have been taken out earlier, and maybe his PO ERA would be lower now.

 

The last hit that scored a run was a grounder up the middle off of Sanchez. Moustakas knocked out Price with a line drive double. Price gave up 5 hard hits that inning. He should've been pulled after the 4th hitter.

[harmony]

The Red Sox sign right-hander Kyle Kendrick to a minor league deal presumably for rotation depth:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/red-sox-sign-kyle-kendrick-to-minor-league-deal.html

 

Every team needs to take chances to deepen the rotation.

Edited January 18, 2017 by harmony

[Kimmi]

Porcello will be fine too.

 

Yes, Porcello will be fine too. I think we both agree that Porcello will show a bit of regression, and Price will show some regression too, towards the good.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox sign right-hander Kyle Kendrick to a minor league deal presumably for rotation depth:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/red-sox-sign-kyle-kendrick-to-minor-league-deal.html

 

There's the first of our scrap heap signings.

[Kimmi]

The Red Sox sign right-hander Kyle Kendrick to a minor league deal presumably for rotation depth:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/red-sox-sign-kyle-kendrick-to-minor-league-deal.html

 

Yay.

[Kimmi]

There's the first of our scrap heap signings.

 

Keep 'em coming.

[Emp9]

The Red Sox sign right-hander Kyle Kendrick to a minor league deal presumably for rotation depth:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/red-sox-sign-kyle-kendrick-to-minor-league-deal.html

 

Every team needs to take chances to deepen the rotation.

 

His career 46.1 GB% is worth taking a closer look at him. Maybe Bannister can help him play to his strengths? Needless to say it's a long shot he does anything. If Coors field was his last stop I'd be more hopeful, but it wasn't.

[Spudboy]

Keep 'em coming.

 

Yup. Minor leagues are more than a bank for trade chips.

[cp176]

Yup. Minor leagues are more than a bank for trade chips.

 

Somebody has to carry that minor league load.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox sign right-hander Kyle Kendrick to a minor league deal presumably for rotation depth:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/red-sox-sign-kyle-kendrick-to-minor-league-deal.html

 

Every team needs to take chances to deepen the rotation.

 

Maybe not the best choice, but we need depth. I hope we have better in the works.